My brave pill: E92 BMW 335i with the infamous N54 engine
Discussion
pmorg4 said:
That's great news about the car behaving itself, and about the gearbox service too. So much for lifetime fluid!
I'm still somewhat confused as to the actual cause of the issue, presumably not the solenoids as you swapped those and it didn't resolve it. What did the indy change in the end, the cam position sensors?
Still flabbergasted that BMW wanted to just dive in and strip the engine without even exploring other possibilities
The car is looking great as always
The gearbox service was well needed; the shift from 2nd to 3rd would be sometimes be a bit jerky. The garage said that the oil was as they’d expect it to be with a small amount of swarf on the magnets where it should be. Sealed for life is a load of guff. I'm still somewhat confused as to the actual cause of the issue, presumably not the solenoids as you swapped those and it didn't resolve it. What did the indy change in the end, the cam position sensors?
Still flabbergasted that BMW wanted to just dive in and strip the engine without even exploring other possibilities
The car is looking great as always
The garage thinks that it could be related to the cam sensors which they removed, cleaned up and swapped over. They reckon that they’re seeing cam sensors cause a few issues on the N54 now. It seems to crop up too on a few google searches too. The solenoids were removed, cleaned and swapped too.
I wonder if BMW just wanted to go nuclear because they thought the warranty would be picking up the tab. I have no idea what they did to diagnose it (it certainly didn’t involve a test drive). I’ve been told that grey oil pressure and flow were absolutely fine when the indy tracked live data. I guess part of the issue is the N54 is as old as some of the BMW techs!
I'd be surprised if the new sensors fix the issue but I have my fingers crossed for you.
There is no oil pressure or flow sensor on the N54, just an oil switch to indicate that a minimum pressure is present. You can use MHD to add an oil pressure sensor as an aftermarket addition but it's not really that useful unless you track the car.
There is no oil pressure or flow sensor on the N54, just an oil switch to indicate that a minimum pressure is present. You can use MHD to add an oil pressure sensor as an aftermarket addition but it's not really that useful unless you track the car.
car user said:
I'd be surprised if the new sensors fix the issue but I have my fingers crossed for you.
There is no oil pressure or flow sensor on the N54, just an oil switch to indicate that a minimum pressure is present. You can use MHD to add an oil pressure sensor as an aftermarket addition but it's not really that useful unless you track the car.
I’m just going off what these guys said which was a lot more than BMW told me. It’s currently running better than I think it ever has, so I’ll go with it for now!There is no oil pressure or flow sensor on the N54, just an oil switch to indicate that a minimum pressure is present. You can use MHD to add an oil pressure sensor as an aftermarket addition but it's not really that useful unless you track the car.
They seemed to think the ledges was quite an extreme diagnosis especially based on what they could see from live data etc. It made the 390 mile round trip yesterday without the yellow light of doom appearing which prior to that was making quite a regular appearance.
Court_S said:
The gearbox service was well needed; the shift from 2nd to 3rd would be sometimes be a bit jerky. The garage said that the oil was as they’d expect it to be with a small amount of swarf on the magnets where it should be. Sealed for life is a load of guff.
The garage thinks that it could be related to the cam sensors which they removed, cleaned up and swapped over. They reckon that they’re seeing cam sensors cause a few issues on the N54 now. It seems to crop up too on a few google searches too. The solenoids were removed, cleaned and swapped too.
I wonder if BMW just wanted to go nuclear because they thought the warranty would be picking up the tab. I have no idea what they did to diagnose it (it certainly didn’t involve a test drive). I’ve been told that grey oil pressure and flow were absolutely fine when the indy tracked live data. I guess part of the issue is the N54 is as old as some of the BMW techs!
So far so good - I've got my fingers crossed. The garage thinks that it could be related to the cam sensors which they removed, cleaned up and swapped over. They reckon that they’re seeing cam sensors cause a few issues on the N54 now. It seems to crop up too on a few google searches too. The solenoids were removed, cleaned and swapped too.
I wonder if BMW just wanted to go nuclear because they thought the warranty would be picking up the tab. I have no idea what they did to diagnose it (it certainly didn’t involve a test drive). I’ve been told that grey oil pressure and flow were absolutely fine when the indy tracked live data. I guess part of the issue is the N54 is as old as some of the BMW techs!
Maybe buying my Z4 E86 with the S54 was less brave than an E89 with an N54 would have been?
[quote=Court_S]So, today was exhaust mod day at PCW. The plan was to have the Performance Exhaust (PE) OE done which involves opening the exhaust, removing the outer perforated pipe on one side and the perforated pipe in a sleeve on the other. This basically mimics the PE, which some crazy American cut open on another forum.
On the way down, I stopped at a local church for a few snd because the car was clean (for now at least ).
Small world eh!
The car looks lovely by the way mate!
On the way down, I stopped at a local church for a few snd because the car was clean (for now at least
).Small world eh!
The car looks lovely by the way mate!
car user said:
I'd be surprised if the new sensors fix the issue but I have my fingers crossed for you.
There is no oil pressure or flow sensor on the N54, just an oil switch to indicate that a minimum pressure is present. You can use MHD to add an oil pressure sensor as an aftermarket addition but it's not really that useful unless you track the car.
I don't think they'd be reading oil pressure directly (which wouldn't really help in this case as it's a loss of pressure at a very specific point inside the VANOS housing rather than a broader loss of oil pressure). I'm guessing here but I assume they're logging the target cam position, PWM actuation of the VANOS solenoids in an attempt to achieve that target, and the actual cam position. By comparing the three using live data logs and particularly looking at how quickly the cam position responds to changes driven by solenoid actuation you can deduce whether the VANOS unit is maintaining normal oil pressure. It's a much smarter way to do it than simply "fault code xxx = strip the top end of the engine and replace cam ledges" although it needs someone who understands the logs to correctly interpret them.There is no oil pressure or flow sensor on the N54, just an oil switch to indicate that a minimum pressure is present. You can use MHD to add an oil pressure sensor as an aftermarket addition but it's not really that useful unless you track the car.
For anyone interested, Testo is a great free tool for logging on the E-series, although it has quite a steep learning curve and I haven't tried it on the N54.
pmorg4 said:
I don't think they'd be reading oil pressure directly (which wouldn't really help in this case as it's a loss of pressure at a very specific point inside the VANOS housing rather than a broader loss of oil pressure). I'm guessing here but I assume they're logging the target cam position, PWM actuation of the VANOS solenoids in an attempt to achieve that target, and the actual cam position. By comparing the three using live data logs and particularly looking at how quickly the cam position responds to changes driven by solenoid actuation you can deduce whether the VANOS unit is maintaining normal oil pressure. It's a much smarter way to do it than simply "fault code xxx = strip the top end of the engine and replace cam ledges" although it needs someone who understands the logs to correctly interpret them.
For anyone interested, Testo is a great free tool for logging on the E-series, although it has quite a steep learning curve and I haven't tried it on the N54.
That sounds about right; he was talking to me about cam positions and angles of correction. Apparently up to five degrees of correction is within spec / tolerance. My intake was pretty much bang on and there was 2.6 degrees on the exhaust. I’d loved to have spoken to the chap in more detail but I had a very bored 8 year old with me who was being a pain. For anyone interested, Testo is a great free tool for logging on the E-series, although it has quite a steep learning curve and I haven't tried it on the N54.
Either way, they were surprised that BMW had reached their diagnosis based on what they saw on the day. It’s currently working, so I’ll keep an eye on it and go from there.
Your interior is definitely now a more interesting place to sit now! Do you think you will keep the silver trim?
I might be biased, but I agree on the E92 design. I think it is the last of the 3/4 series that favours elegance and purpose over design details that are only there for looks.
I might be biased, but I agree on the E92 design. I think it is the last of the 3/4 series that favours elegance and purpose over design details that are only there for looks.
RS Grant said:
This has been a 'good' read.. rubbish that you've had issues, but an enjoyable read and good that you're ploughing through regardless because I'm sure it'll be worth it in the end. 
I've got a lot of time for the design of the E9* cars, I rate them as a high point in BMW design.
It’s been a bit frustrating this year, but I knew the risks buying a car with the N54 engine and plowed on regardless.I've got a lot of time for the design of the E9* cars, I rate them as a high point in BMW design.
It’s running well at the moment, in fact better than it ever has. I like this era car too, the rear arches could be a bit beefier but it’s pretty slick and less jarring than current designs!
Court_S said:
It’s been a bit frustrating this year, but I knew the risks buying a car with the N54 engine and plowed on regardless.
It’s running well at the moment, in fact better than it ever has. I like this era car too, the rear arches could be a bit beefier but it’s pretty slick and less jarring than current designs!
I find the E9x models take quite a bit of subtle modifying to make them a good drive. When you’ve got there, they’re great. I did see a YouTube vid. this week where someone is putting a B58 in an E46. I always thought an M57 twin turbo would be handy in an E46. Or a B58 in an E9x. Off topic ramble over! Hope your car behaves. It’s running well at the moment, in fact better than it ever has. I like this era car too, the rear arches could be a bit beefier but it’s pretty slick and less jarring than current designs!
A well running E9x is a lovely thing and feels like it will last a long time in the hands of someone who treats it well. I love the design of the E46 (and E39) and think that those were the high point of BMW design from an aesthetic perspective, but much as I loved my E46 330Ci coupe it's unlikely I'll have another due to the rust issues, which are only going to get worse as time goes on unless you pay big money for the diminishing pool of highly cherished rust free cars.
That's one thing that they massively improved upon with the E9x, it's pretty rare to see one with serious rust despite the oldest now over 17 years old. It's a nice combination of solid build, lovely 6-pot engines, and (mostly) hydraulic steering. Now if only someone could finally sort out the N54 injector issues (BMW had 12 attempts at it and still haven't succeeded!)...
That's one thing that they massively improved upon with the E9x, it's pretty rare to see one with serious rust despite the oldest now over 17 years old. It's a nice combination of solid build, lovely 6-pot engines, and (mostly) hydraulic steering. Now if only someone could finally sort out the N54 injector issues (BMW had 12 attempts at it and still haven't succeeded!)...
roadie said:
Your interior is definitely now a more interesting place to sit now! Do you think you will keep the silver trim?
I might be biased, but I agree on the E92 design. I think it is the last of the 3/4 series that favours elegance and purpose over design details that are only there for looks.
Thanks; it’s much nicer than black. It’s loads lighter which is nice because the Germans are very good at the black, dour interiors. I might be biased, but I agree on the E92 design. I think it is the last of the 3/4 series that favours elegance and purpose over design details that are only there for looks.
I think the silver trim is staying, at least for now. The wood looks awful with the red, the painted silver is a bit meh and the gloss black scratches too easily and gets covered in finger prints. A carbon wrap looks a bit naff with the red in my opinion.
I think it’s an elegant design that’s aged well but I’m betting biased!
helix402 said:
I find the E9x models take quite a bit of subtle modifying to make them a good drive. When you’ve got there, they’re great. I did see a YouTube vid. this week where someone is putting a B58 in an E46. I always thought an M57 twin turbo would be handy in an E46. Or a B58 in an E9x. Off topic ramble over! Hope your car behaves.
Possibly; mine feels pretty good to me know. I prefer it to the later cars which feel very remote and detached. A B58 in an E9x could be quite entertaining!
Court_S said:
helix402 said:
I find the E9x models take quite a bit of subtle modifying to make them a good drive. When you’ve got there, they’re great. I did see a YouTube vid. this week where someone is putting a B58 in an E46. I always thought an M57 twin turbo would be handy in an E46. Or a B58 in an E9x. Off topic ramble over! Hope your car behaves.
Possibly; mine feels pretty good to me know. I prefer it to the later cars which feel very remote and detached. A B58 in an E9x could be quite entertaining!
pmorg4 said:
A well running E9x is a lovely thing and feels like it will last a long time in the hands of someone who treats it well. I love the design of the E46 (and E39) and think that those were the high point of BMW design from an aesthetic perspective, but much as I loved my E46 330Ci coupe it's unlikely I'll have another due to the rust issues, which are only going to get worse as time goes on unless you pay big money for the diminishing pool of highly cherished rust free cars.
That's one thing that they massively improved upon with the E9x, it's pretty rare to see one with serious rust despite the oldest now over 17 years old. It's a nice combination of solid build, lovely 6-pot engines, and (mostly) hydraulic steering. Now if only someone could finally sort out the N54 injector issues (BMW had 12 attempts at it and still haven't succeeded!)...
I’m a big fan of this era BMW; they’ve solved the rust issues of the earlier cars, they’re easy to modernise with stiff like CarPlay but are still OK to work on yourself. That's one thing that they massively improved upon with the E9x, it's pretty rare to see one with serious rust despite the oldest now over 17 years old. It's a nice combination of solid build, lovely 6-pot engines, and (mostly) hydraulic steering. Now if only someone could finally sort out the N54 injector issues (BMW had 12 attempts at it and still haven't succeeded!)...
But agree the E46 and E39 are prettier but the rust is a killer these days. Front wings not so much, but stiff like the rear arches, nah. Not for me.
My E46 was a compact so rust wasn’t an issue but it had a healthy appetite for suspension components, snapped springs for fun and had a chocolate cooling system. It’d probably have been an easier proposition now given my willingness to get stuck in myself but back then there were y so many guides out etc.
The injector thing is a pain in the bum but hey ho.
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