2005 MX5 'Launch Edition' BBR Super 200
Discussion
It's fair enough. You tried the Boxster.
Unless one has deep pockets and doesn't mind spending the money on a car that can require a lot of expensive attention, rather than just driving it, the car that is good to drive, reliable and enjoyable at daily speeds makes a lot more sense to me.
Your local roads are excellent too. Get out there and use the MX5!
Unless one has deep pockets and doesn't mind spending the money on a car that can require a lot of expensive attention, rather than just driving it, the car that is good to drive, reliable and enjoyable at daily speeds makes a lot more sense to me.
Your local roads are excellent too. Get out there and use the MX5!
MC Bodge said:
It's fair enough. You tried the Boxster.
Unless one has deep pockets and doesn't mind spending the money on a car that can require a lot of expensive attention, rather than just driving it, the car that is good to drive, reliable and enjoyable at daily speeds makes a lot more sense to me.
Your local roads are excellent too. Get out there and use the MX5!
Unless one has deep pockets and doesn't mind spending the money on a car that can require a lot of expensive attention, rather than just driving it, the car that is good to drive, reliable and enjoyable at daily speeds makes a lot more sense to me.
Your local roads are excellent too. Get out there and use the MX5!
If there's one thing this whole thing has taught me, I'm very much in the camp of wanting a car to drive, not to fix and stress about. The MX5 really does fit that brief perfectly. It's a perfect car for people like me, and I now appreciate it a lot more.
TameRacingDriver said:
If there's one thing this whole thing has taught me, I'm very much in the camp of wanting a car to drive, not to fix and stress about. The MX5 really does fit that brief perfectly. It's a perfect car for people like me, and I now appreciate it a lot more.
Making smooth, brisk progress that didn't upset the family across the Peak District in our heavily-laden estate car earlier was a good example. A two seater would have been a struggle
MC Bodge said:
I know people who own, and spend a lot of money, on some fairly exotic/potent cars. They can afford to, but the joy for me is in setting-up, tweaking and/or getting the most out of something "lesser" and actually using it, as well as I can. The same applies to things other than vehicles.
Making smooth, brisk progress that didn't upset the family across the Peak District in our heavily-laden estate car earlier was a good example. A two seater would have been a struggle
I do know what you mean there. I had a great little drive once where I caught up with an M140i that then tried to lose me in the MX5. As expected, pulling away in the straights but with a few bends I soon caught up again. It's always quite fun being the underdog and keeping up. Another car like that was the MR2 Roadster, only 138 bhp but on a bendy road it was faster than it had any right to be.Making smooth, brisk progress that didn't upset the family across the Peak District in our heavily-laden estate car earlier was a good example. A two seater would have been a struggle
Making progress without upsetting the passengers is always good.
Not really possible with Mrs TRD, at least not in the MX5 which always feels quite a bit faster than it is even when not making progress.I do think it is driving that is my main source of enjoyment when it comes to cars. I drive Mrs TRDs 1.0 Aygo and I still enjoy it to be fair. As for fixing them, cleaning them, or any of that other more mundane s
t, it's just not for me. I really haven't particularly enjoyed or appreciated all the hassle I've had so far with this car, including the hour and a half round trip in the morning and the same again to collect it afterwards, but needs must. Definitely give me a car that spends more of its time on the road than on a lift. If there's one thing I've noticed over the last 20 years it's how much more reliable and well engineered my Jap cars have been compared to elsewhere. My DC2 Integra Type-R was nearly 10 years old when I got it, and I thrashed the living daylights out of it for 3 years, never had a single problem. Same with most my other jap cars. German cars seem to have been the least reliable for me!
TameRacingDriver said:
If there's one thing I've noticed over the last 20 years it's how much more reliable and well engineered my Jap cars have been compared to elsewhere. My DC2 Integra Type-R was nearly 10 years old when I got it, and I thrashed the living daylights out of it for 3 years, never had a single problem. Same with most my other jap cars. German cars seem to have been the least reliable for me!
Couldn't agree more... my Hondas and Mazdas have been the most reliable and cheap to run cars I have ever owned... and they have also been a lot of fun too. The 3 least reliable cars I've owned... 2 Mercs and a Porsche.... Hmmmmm!emmetb said:
TameRacingDriver said:
If there's one thing I've noticed over the last 20 years it's how much more reliable and well engineered my Jap cars have been compared to elsewhere. My DC2 Integra Type-R was nearly 10 years old when I got it, and I thrashed the living daylights out of it for 3 years, never had a single problem. Same with most my other jap cars. German cars seem to have been the least reliable for me!
Couldn't agree more... my Hondas and Mazdas have been the most reliable and cheap to run cars I have ever owned... and they have also been a lot of fun too. The 3 least reliable cars I've owned... 2 Mercs and a Porsche.... Hmmmmm!I've been reading this with great interest, reflects a lot of my car experiences over the last 20 years.
Have had a lot of hot hatches, Peugeot Rallyes and Renaultsports mainly, quite a few cheap sports cars, an old Caterham, 2 Westfields, a MX-5 1.8 NB and 3 MR2 Roadsters!
I get bored quickly and think something else might be more fun but the overall theme has been lightweight with enough power to be fun at sane speeds.
2 years ago I fulfilled a long held ambition to own a Porsche, in my case a high spec Boxster 987 2.7 2006 which I paid £10,000 for privately. The previous owner had spent £9000 maintaining it over 6 years of ownership so £1500 a year which seemed reasonable but when I took it to a reputable independent he diagnosed a good variety of things wrong with it which cost £5000 to put right. Did the previous owner know there were some big bills coming up? Did the independent rip me off? I don't know.
My first thought was to sell it before it cost me more money but the current theory is to keep it and hope everything that needed doing has been done and I'll get a cheap few years out of it!
I do find it much more of an occasion to drive than most of the other cars I've owned, the sound it makes, how it looks and have had some great drives in it although it's not actually that fast, a previous Megane RS mapped to 300bhp and my current Fiesta ST modded to 240 would both leave it well behind on any road or track.
Hope your Boxster turns out to be a good one, I'm sure there are some out there!
Have had a lot of hot hatches, Peugeot Rallyes and Renaultsports mainly, quite a few cheap sports cars, an old Caterham, 2 Westfields, a MX-5 1.8 NB and 3 MR2 Roadsters!
I get bored quickly and think something else might be more fun but the overall theme has been lightweight with enough power to be fun at sane speeds.
2 years ago I fulfilled a long held ambition to own a Porsche, in my case a high spec Boxster 987 2.7 2006 which I paid £10,000 for privately. The previous owner had spent £9000 maintaining it over 6 years of ownership so £1500 a year which seemed reasonable but when I took it to a reputable independent he diagnosed a good variety of things wrong with it which cost £5000 to put right. Did the previous owner know there were some big bills coming up? Did the independent rip me off? I don't know.
My first thought was to sell it before it cost me more money but the current theory is to keep it and hope everything that needed doing has been done and I'll get a cheap few years out of it!
I do find it much more of an occasion to drive than most of the other cars I've owned, the sound it makes, how it looks and have had some great drives in it although it's not actually that fast, a previous Megane RS mapped to 300bhp and my current Fiesta ST modded to 240 would both leave it well behind on any road or track.
Hope your Boxster turns out to be a good one, I'm sure there are some out there!
TameRacingDriver said:
Yep, the thing that makes it even more insane was that DC2 was being revved daily to 9,000 rpm, and as long as you kept the oil topped up, it was so reliable and robust. Really great engineering when you think about it.
Yep, had a DC2 myself and like you say as long as you maintained it sensibly you could thrash the living daylights out of it with no worries whatsoever. I used to do track days in mine (where its ability to corner properly saw off many a more powerful machine) and then drive it as a daily too... as you say brilliant engineering. Same goes for my Civic Type Rs and both S2000s. Mazdas are generally the same (rotary engines aside). A fun car needs to be reliable too... well in my book anyway.I've had the hard top on a little while and while I quite liked the way it looks with it on, it was a nice day last weekend, and it really wasn't the same having the windows open 
I was jealous every time I saw a convertible with the roof down, which was lots.
So, a check of the weather forecast shows wall-to-wall sunshine tomorrow, so off came the hard top tonight, ready for some roof down action tomorrow.
Having previously said I was going to sell the car, for now, it's going nowhere.
After all the issues I've had lately with cars, I was considering just ditching all the sports cars and just going for something 'cheap' but that is just completely illogical when I have a near 200 bhp lightweight, convertible, RWD, LSD equipped sports car that costs as much to run as a budget hatchback.
It's taken me a while and some painfully bad luck to realise it, but I guess me and this car were meant for each other... or at least, I'm an MX5 / Jap car fanboy at heart. These are the cars that have always treat me the best.
I was jealous every time I saw a convertible with the roof down, which was lots.So, a check of the weather forecast shows wall-to-wall sunshine tomorrow, so off came the hard top tonight, ready for some roof down action tomorrow.
Having previously said I was going to sell the car, for now, it's going nowhere.
After all the issues I've had lately with cars, I was considering just ditching all the sports cars and just going for something 'cheap' but that is just completely illogical when I have a near 200 bhp lightweight, convertible, RWD, LSD equipped sports car that costs as much to run as a budget hatchback.It's taken me a while and some painfully bad luck to realise it, but I guess me and this car were meant for each other... or at least, I'm an MX5 / Jap car fanboy at heart. These are the cars that have always treat me the best.
So, after the absolute disaster that was the Boxster S, the car that was supposed to replace it, I've been having a lot of thoughts about what to do next.
It's been suggested to me to get rid of this car as well and get something newer. I did actually seriously entertain this possibility, so I started looking. At the top of the list was the F56 JCW Mini and the Fiesta ST.
All the while I've been going out in the Mazda though, and it made me realise that for a fun car, it probably does have to be a convertible, I guess I've taken it for granted a bit as I'm so used to having it, but on a nice sunny day I'm just not sure I would be as keen to go out in the car for fun.
So maybe I should keep this one... However the oil consumption issue obviously hasn't gone away. I've been monitoring this. Essentially it needs topping up every tank of petrol if you repeatedly rev it right out. If driven*slightly* more moderately, then it uses less, but still about a litre per 1000 miles. If driven gently it doesn't seem to use that much, but where's the fun in that.
I've had some advice from professionals to suggest that perhaps the engine needs rebuilding, and that the oil burning might damage the cat eventually.
So I thought about getting a newer ND model, but again a decent 184 model is £20k give or take, which is a lot of money for a car that gets used once or twice a week.
Then it made me think that money would transform the car I already have. Engine rebuild, supercharger or turbo, coil overs, updated head unit with Apple car play, get the rust treatment done, and probably still have change.
So my options are...
1. Keep car, just enjoy as is until it breaks
2. Spend some money making it a beast
3. Buy an ND
4. Buy something else entirely
5. Sell it and do without a car.
Would love to hear what your opinions are.
It's been suggested to me to get rid of this car as well and get something newer. I did actually seriously entertain this possibility, so I started looking. At the top of the list was the F56 JCW Mini and the Fiesta ST.
All the while I've been going out in the Mazda though, and it made me realise that for a fun car, it probably does have to be a convertible, I guess I've taken it for granted a bit as I'm so used to having it, but on a nice sunny day I'm just not sure I would be as keen to go out in the car for fun.
So maybe I should keep this one... However the oil consumption issue obviously hasn't gone away. I've been monitoring this. Essentially it needs topping up every tank of petrol if you repeatedly rev it right out. If driven*slightly* more moderately, then it uses less, but still about a litre per 1000 miles. If driven gently it doesn't seem to use that much, but where's the fun in that.
I've had some advice from professionals to suggest that perhaps the engine needs rebuilding, and that the oil burning might damage the cat eventually.
So I thought about getting a newer ND model, but again a decent 184 model is £20k give or take, which is a lot of money for a car that gets used once or twice a week.
Then it made me think that money would transform the car I already have. Engine rebuild, supercharger or turbo, coil overs, updated head unit with Apple car play, get the rust treatment done, and probably still have change.
So my options are...
1. Keep car, just enjoy as is until it breaks
2. Spend some money making it a beast
3. Buy an ND
4. Buy something else entirely
5. Sell it and do without a car.
Would love to hear what your opinions are.
Cambs_Stuart said:
I would get the oil burning investigated and a price for a decent repair. Are there any more upgrades you could do when it's being fixed?
Alternatively, how hard would it be to swap the BBR parts over to another engine?
I recently spoke with Paul Roddison, a respected mx5 specialist. His suggested plan of action was an engine rebuild, but this will cost £2500 +vat. He advised against a second hand engine as he said another entire could easily have the same fault.Alternatively, how hard would it be to swap the BBR parts over to another engine?
The price does include retaining the BBR bits, but if I'm going to pay thousands then I would like a supercharger too as I kind of miss the instant response and the whine from my old r53 mini.
Nickp82 said:
At £2500+ vat you’re not far off the £2990+ vat BBR charge for a crate 2.5, though the labour would increase that gap I guess
I did ask Paul about the 2.5 but he said it's not a cheap endeavour. For starters, he said it would produce less power out of the box than my BBR, and to set them up properly would cost over double than rebuilding the engine that's already in it.Nickp82 said:
Interesting, was starting to think about the possibility of the swap for my own MX
I would recommend speaking to Paul on the phone, certainly knows his stuff. He said they can be good but only when setup right.Actually on eBay now there's a supercharged 2.5 for sale! Looks a beast but £12500... Could be a cracking little car or it could be selling it due to issues, but still...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mazda-MX5-ZSport-BBR-Co...
I've been having a think about what to do about this car. I've not used it much, but when I have it's been a great laugh, however, it does obviously need a bit of TLC at various points in the future, so I've had a few thoughts.
First was to sell it and buy a decent TT 225, they seem quite cheap, reliable, good looking, good turbo shove, AWD, seen a few decent videos of them lately... but... I'm sure it'd still cost more to run than an MX5, and I just can't see it being as good to drive as a sorted MX5 even if they are a really good all rounder.
Another option was a Mini F56 JCW. They appear to be quite silly cars, but with a sensible side. They seem to be quite rapid, nice interior, fun handling, fairly rude sounding with the right exhaust, but they are FWD and in a way, I can sort of imagine a slight sense of detachment in a way modern cars tend to. They're also about £15k which is a lot of money.
So then I thought about the ND. I really like the look of these. The 1.5 is said to be a good engine, but I'm not sure I'd enjoy it that much after having nearly 200 bhp in a similar car. The ND 184 seems to be the one to go for, but they're near enough £20k, and yes they're better cars than a stock NC, but £20k buys you a lot of mods even less than half that would be enough to make it into an effectively brand new car to all intents and purposes. Not just that but the NC counters its advantages with hydraulic steering
I did also think about a later NC with the PRHT, which might be handy as it lives outside, but then again I've never really had major water leaks with MX5s generally, and if they do, unlike a Porsche, they don't do potentially 4-figure damage. I'd want an NC3.5 in white, very nice cars, but for a good one, and then the mods I'd like to do, puts me pretty close to the cost of the other cars I've mentioned, although you do also gain the engine with the higher rev limit.
Spending £15-20k upfront seem a bit silly when I don't use the car regularly anyway, so I figure I may be best off keeping my Launch Edition, as I do still really enjoy it to be fair, slowly upgrade it starting with the rust treatment, keep an eye on the oil levels, if they get out of hand, bite the bullet and rebuild the engine, perhaps also adding ITBs in the process (or a Supercharger). Upgrade suspension to Meister / Ohlins. Upgrade the head unit to a screen, better speakers. Do a few cosmetic repairs, for example, the boot lid is corroding. Get that treated, debadge the car. Fix the air con. Maybe get shorter ratios.
Would be a good little car that? After all second hand cars of any kind are a risk and eventually I'd be driving in an effectively new car. £15-20k for a 6 year old car still seems like a huge gamble to me. Better the devil you know and all that, and I'm quite attached to it at this stage.
But first of all, I'm really tempted by this Cobalt back box. I'm running standard at the minute, and it's OK but a bit vanilla. It's on sale, so only £280 , not exactly a huge expense and I think it would really increase my enjoyment of the car. This would be the first modification that I've personally made to the car in 16 months of ownership, and I reckon it would go some way to helping me get over the Boxster.
https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/mazda/...
First was to sell it and buy a decent TT 225, they seem quite cheap, reliable, good looking, good turbo shove, AWD, seen a few decent videos of them lately... but... I'm sure it'd still cost more to run than an MX5, and I just can't see it being as good to drive as a sorted MX5 even if they are a really good all rounder.
Another option was a Mini F56 JCW. They appear to be quite silly cars, but with a sensible side. They seem to be quite rapid, nice interior, fun handling, fairly rude sounding with the right exhaust, but they are FWD and in a way, I can sort of imagine a slight sense of detachment in a way modern cars tend to. They're also about £15k which is a lot of money.
So then I thought about the ND. I really like the look of these. The 1.5 is said to be a good engine, but I'm not sure I'd enjoy it that much after having nearly 200 bhp in a similar car. The ND 184 seems to be the one to go for, but they're near enough £20k, and yes they're better cars than a stock NC, but £20k buys you a lot of mods even less than half that would be enough to make it into an effectively brand new car to all intents and purposes. Not just that but the NC counters its advantages with hydraulic steering
I did also think about a later NC with the PRHT, which might be handy as it lives outside, but then again I've never really had major water leaks with MX5s generally, and if they do, unlike a Porsche, they don't do potentially 4-figure damage. I'd want an NC3.5 in white, very nice cars, but for a good one, and then the mods I'd like to do, puts me pretty close to the cost of the other cars I've mentioned, although you do also gain the engine with the higher rev limit.
Spending £15-20k upfront seem a bit silly when I don't use the car regularly anyway, so I figure I may be best off keeping my Launch Edition, as I do still really enjoy it to be fair, slowly upgrade it starting with the rust treatment, keep an eye on the oil levels, if they get out of hand, bite the bullet and rebuild the engine, perhaps also adding ITBs in the process (or a Supercharger). Upgrade suspension to Meister / Ohlins. Upgrade the head unit to a screen, better speakers. Do a few cosmetic repairs, for example, the boot lid is corroding. Get that treated, debadge the car. Fix the air con. Maybe get shorter ratios.
Would be a good little car that? After all second hand cars of any kind are a risk and eventually I'd be driving in an effectively new car. £15-20k for a 6 year old car still seems like a huge gamble to me. Better the devil you know and all that, and I'm quite attached to it at this stage.
But first of all, I'm really tempted by this Cobalt back box. I'm running standard at the minute, and it's OK but a bit vanilla. It's on sale, so only £280 , not exactly a huge expense and I think it would really increase my enjoyment of the car. This would be the first modification that I've personally made to the car in 16 months of ownership, and I reckon it would go some way to helping me get over the Boxster.
https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/mazda/...
Sounds like you still have 'the bug' after all!
I think as long as it is reliable (and as you know the history) staying with the MX5 is possibly the best option. They are well put together, generally reliable and yours is still quite special.
If you absolutely do have to change, I would be tempted by the ND 1.5. I always like something different and a light MX5 with a revvy engine and sweet gearbox that needs to be driven to get its best would be sorely tempting - and you wouldn't be going at ludicrous speeds in the process. Plus its probably the cheapest to run!
Lastly, if you are going to push the boat out a bit, don't forget the 370z - coupe or roadster. In for a penny...
I think as long as it is reliable (and as you know the history) staying with the MX5 is possibly the best option. They are well put together, generally reliable and yours is still quite special.
If you absolutely do have to change, I would be tempted by the ND 1.5. I always like something different and a light MX5 with a revvy engine and sweet gearbox that needs to be driven to get its best would be sorely tempting - and you wouldn't be going at ludicrous speeds in the process. Plus its probably the cheapest to run!
Lastly, if you are going to push the boat out a bit, don't forget the 370z - coupe or roadster. In for a penny...
Edited by Om on Thursday 22 June 09:23
I don't know much about the ITB set up on these engines so I'm speaking in totally general terms but it's worth considering that you would be going way off piste in terms of the OEM testing that makes cars like MX5's so easy to live with. You're into the realms of either a fully customised map or low volume, minimally validated maps. Obviously these can work fine and probably do most of the time but if they don't the pool of help available to rectify is much smaller. I had an SBD ITB set up on a Vauxhall engine years back and that was with a SBD mapped ECU and even then I had to learn very quickly how to connect up a laptop and tweak throttle maps etc and do all my own diagnosis. I'm only mentioning this stuff because I know what a headache you had with the 986 and I'm not convinced you'd want this complication in your life. Or at least tread very carefully. If these ITB set ups or SC setups are basically plug and play, then great but it sounds to me like you're opening the door to reduced reliability and increased headaches.
Getting any rust sorted and then figuring out some sort of periodic maintenance plan to keep on top of that would be wise. I'd definitely prioritise that. Nothing kills MX5's faster. Suspension and exhaust etc all good and I'd probably agree about just leaving the engine until it becomes a real problem. Topping up with oil is inexpensive compared to a rebuild.
Getting any rust sorted and then figuring out some sort of periodic maintenance plan to keep on top of that would be wise. I'd definitely prioritise that. Nothing kills MX5's faster. Suspension and exhaust etc all good and I'd probably agree about just leaving the engine until it becomes a real problem. Topping up with oil is inexpensive compared to a rebuild.
Hey Gad Westy, the ITB setup is essentially the BBR Super 225 setup which is the next stage up from the Super 200 I have now. I'm not aware of any specific reliability issues with it, but they are quite expensive to buy and fit so it would be something in the distant future, however yes it's definitely worth mentioning given then issue I had with the Porsche as the Super 200 is a reliable setup.
Have a look here at the ITB part: https://bbrgti.com/products/bbr-mx-5-nc-individual...
And here is the full Super 225 kit: https://bbrgti.com/products/bbr-mx-5-nc-super-225
All that said though you're right it turns a cheap fun car into a not so cheap car so I'm not certain to be doing this, it was just a thought that IF I have to rebuild the engine, that maybe it would be in for a penny, in for a pound. I do really value your opinion however and it keeps my feet on the ground. Never again will I be taking huge risks.
In the meantime I succumbed and ordered the cobalt exhaust so that should go a long way in addressing one of my main complaints about the car, the lack of a decent noise!
Have a look here at the ITB part: https://bbrgti.com/products/bbr-mx-5-nc-individual...
And here is the full Super 225 kit: https://bbrgti.com/products/bbr-mx-5-nc-super-225
All that said though you're right it turns a cheap fun car into a not so cheap car so I'm not certain to be doing this, it was just a thought that IF I have to rebuild the engine, that maybe it would be in for a penny, in for a pound. I do really value your opinion however and it keeps my feet on the ground. Never again will I be taking huge risks.
In the meantime I succumbed and ordered the cobalt exhaust so that should go a long way in addressing one of my main complaints about the car, the lack of a decent noise!
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