Facel Vega HK500. A childhood dream or a nightmare?
Discussion
theadman said:
Jhonno and B'stardChild; maybe going public will force more progress. The real issue though is that whilst I understand fairly well how cars work, attach me to the end of a spanner and I'm hopeless. That being the case, progress has been driven by three things; finding someone capable of coping with the bizarre and sometimes formidable complexity of these hand built cars, the availability of money to pay them and access to their time. It is the last of these three that has determined the pace of progress over the last seven years and that is really frustrating.
Where are you based? What is the scope of works?
LarJammer said:
Isn't the dash on these actually metal. Painted to look like wood? That must be a very specialised job!
The dashboard on almost all Facels is indeed painted metal. Customers could specify leather instead or could have the dash painted body colour, although few took up either of these options.The finish on my dashboard had deteriorated quite badly so I had to have it refinished. Firstly I went to someone who came highly recommended as she was an expert in 'scumbling', a Victorian practice of painting grain onto pine to make it look like a more expensive wood. As it happened, painting metal seemed to be a rather different technique and I paid a lot of money to end up with something that looked worse than it had originally!
So, I had the dash repainted a second time, this time by an artist who worked on props at Elstree Studios. I'm very happy with the results...
Jhonno said:
Where are you based? What is the scope of works?
The car is agonisingly close to completion...a couple of full days should have it ready for an MOT (I know it doesn't need one, but after all this time a second pair of eyes won't go amiss). This rather optimistically assumes stuff repaired 20 years ago, remains repaired when pressed into service!I'm in the Midlands, but the car is with one of the very few people who can claim to be a serial Facel restorer. He's based in Cornwall (which isn't as convenient as it might be)!
williamp said:
Back in the late 90s I did a brewery tour of a kent brewer and he had an hk500 in an outbuilding, ripe for restoration. And in kent someone I once knew called (i think) Eric had one, and an Aston V8
So yes please to more of the car!
More of the car to follow and thanks for the encouragement!So yes please to more of the car!
If the Eric in question was Eric Philpott, he had a number of Facels, including the ex Ringo Starr car which P5BNij posted pictures of above. Sadly, he is no longer with us and EPH 4B was subsequently restored to its former glory by Justin Banks (P5BNij's post also shows it post restoration).
Dr Jekyll said:
I saw what I was sure was a Facel Vega in a car park in Hatfield many years ago, but it had a badge saying 'Delage'. Anybody know what I actually saw?
Many people thought Facel Vega took over from where the pre war prestige French brands left off, particularly Delahaye and Delage. There was a Facel (Facellia I think) that someone converted into a Delage homage, complete with 3 litre Delage straight six, curiously revised front styling and Delage badges. Maybe this is what you saw?Link to a picture from the Mythique Facel Vega thread on the French Caradisiac site (well worth a look, if you are interested in Facels)
https://content-eu.invisioncic.com/m304542/monthly...
...anyway, back to the story.
So, in August 1999 I bought the HK...or at least most of it!
The previous owner (Geoff) was a partner in a car restoration business. He had owned the Facel for around 12 years and during that time he had tackled the bodywork, usually the thing that causes most grief. Facels left to their own devices for too long start to disintegrate from the bottom up, so the fact this wasn't an issue was a big factor in buying the car.
Unfortunately, Geoff's business partner had suffered a heart attack and could no longer work. As he was the one with the restoration skills the business was wound up and Geoff was left with the task of selling the inventory.
Geoff may not have tackled the restorations himself, but he was obviously highly proficient in taking cars apart and scattering all the bits across a rather large mezzanine floor. Labelling took a back seat in this process!
Picture the scene...I turn up to pick up the car. There is one large piece which has the engine, transmission and running gear attached to it. The dashboard, steering wheel and pedals are all where you would expect them to be, so this chunk of metal can be winched onto a trailer.
There are also a reassuring number of fairly large, recognisable bits that are obviously part of an HK500; doors, seats, bumpers, that kind of thing.
And then there are a few boxes full of smaller items right down to loose screws rattling around in the bottom.
Whilst my friend Norman loaded the car up I was frantically going through the boxes trying to spot what's missing. Understanding what's not there is much, much harder than establishing what's there, if you see what I mean!
It occurs to me that there is no glazing for the doors...side windows and quarter lights are missing.
At this point Geoff utters the immortal words 'Oh, they might be on the mezzanine'. He then takes me upstairs and explains that scattered across the floor and on racking are most of the parts from two Maserati 3500GTs, a couple of Ponton Merc 220S cabrios, numerous E-Types and MkII Jaguars and a special bodied Healey, all garnished with a selection of parts from more mundane modern cars. Oh, and somewhere in there might be my Facel bits!
The mezzanine was groaning under the weight of all this stuff and none of it was in any order. The only thing I could do was to go back another day and sift through all these parts.
It was hot that August. It was ten times hotter on that mezzanine floor where I eventually spent three days combing through all those parts.
Having had several E-Types I was pretty proficient at identifying the Jaguar bits...and there were plenty of them!
I managed to find quite a few Facel bits...but it became clear that pieces of a Facel II Geoff had sold previously were still lurking around up there.
Unintentionally, I came away with a mouldy old carpet set from a 3500GT and some interior trim from a Ponton Merc!
If someone on here needs the stainless kick plates from the rear interior trim of a 220S Coupe or Cabrio I might know someone who has a pair. Ditto brand new rear exhaust boxes for a Facel II.
Disappointingly, I knew there were some missing parts, the most important being the complete rear light assemblies and the corresponding trims that run half the length of the rear wings. Much of the stainless trim that adorns the lower body had also gone AWOL. All these are made from the finest unobtainium!
So, by the end of August 1999 I had most of a Facel Vega temporarily stored at Norman's workshop. How I wish, I'd taken some pictures!
As I hadn't, here are a couple from later that show some of the welding that had been completed by Geoff's business. These pictures are just a small sample of the work done...they were actually taken to show other things. In all the time since I have only found and had repaired two other tiny areas of rust.
At that stage I was confident the car could be on the road in six months...ready for Spring 2000. What could possibly go wrong?
So, in August 1999 I bought the HK...or at least most of it!
The previous owner (Geoff) was a partner in a car restoration business. He had owned the Facel for around 12 years and during that time he had tackled the bodywork, usually the thing that causes most grief. Facels left to their own devices for too long start to disintegrate from the bottom up, so the fact this wasn't an issue was a big factor in buying the car.
Unfortunately, Geoff's business partner had suffered a heart attack and could no longer work. As he was the one with the restoration skills the business was wound up and Geoff was left with the task of selling the inventory.
Geoff may not have tackled the restorations himself, but he was obviously highly proficient in taking cars apart and scattering all the bits across a rather large mezzanine floor. Labelling took a back seat in this process!
Picture the scene...I turn up to pick up the car. There is one large piece which has the engine, transmission and running gear attached to it. The dashboard, steering wheel and pedals are all where you would expect them to be, so this chunk of metal can be winched onto a trailer.
There are also a reassuring number of fairly large, recognisable bits that are obviously part of an HK500; doors, seats, bumpers, that kind of thing.
And then there are a few boxes full of smaller items right down to loose screws rattling around in the bottom.
Whilst my friend Norman loaded the car up I was frantically going through the boxes trying to spot what's missing. Understanding what's not there is much, much harder than establishing what's there, if you see what I mean!
It occurs to me that there is no glazing for the doors...side windows and quarter lights are missing.
At this point Geoff utters the immortal words 'Oh, they might be on the mezzanine'. He then takes me upstairs and explains that scattered across the floor and on racking are most of the parts from two Maserati 3500GTs, a couple of Ponton Merc 220S cabrios, numerous E-Types and MkII Jaguars and a special bodied Healey, all garnished with a selection of parts from more mundane modern cars. Oh, and somewhere in there might be my Facel bits!
The mezzanine was groaning under the weight of all this stuff and none of it was in any order. The only thing I could do was to go back another day and sift through all these parts.
It was hot that August. It was ten times hotter on that mezzanine floor where I eventually spent three days combing through all those parts.
Having had several E-Types I was pretty proficient at identifying the Jaguar bits...and there were plenty of them!
I managed to find quite a few Facel bits...but it became clear that pieces of a Facel II Geoff had sold previously were still lurking around up there.
Unintentionally, I came away with a mouldy old carpet set from a 3500GT and some interior trim from a Ponton Merc!
If someone on here needs the stainless kick plates from the rear interior trim of a 220S Coupe or Cabrio I might know someone who has a pair. Ditto brand new rear exhaust boxes for a Facel II.
Disappointingly, I knew there were some missing parts, the most important being the complete rear light assemblies and the corresponding trims that run half the length of the rear wings. Much of the stainless trim that adorns the lower body had also gone AWOL. All these are made from the finest unobtainium!
So, by the end of August 1999 I had most of a Facel Vega temporarily stored at Norman's workshop. How I wish, I'd taken some pictures!
As I hadn't, here are a couple from later that show some of the welding that had been completed by Geoff's business. These pictures are just a small sample of the work done...they were actually taken to show other things. In all the time since I have only found and had repaired two other tiny areas of rust.
At that stage I was confident the car could be on the road in six months...ready for Spring 2000. What could possibly go wrong?
P5BNij said:
?!Well, that loubard does not look at all like Camus and does not look like Michel Gallimard either (Gallimard was the owner of the Facel Vega involved in the crash which caused both his and Camus' deaths).
Also, British-style plates.
Otherwise, excellent compilation of pictures as always, Mr P5BNij!
OP, fascinating tale, please keep telling us. Hope you do manage to finally enjoy your car soon...
P5BNij said:
Great photos as always P5BNij.The one above I believe is Lionel Bart who was a big name around the time the Facel II was launched. He walked onto the Motor Show stand and demanded he had the car that was sitting there immediately. The Facel stand staff tried to put him off, but he was having none of it so he was soon driving around in the car.
What he didn't know was that Facel specially prepared their show cars. Past experience had shown that the sealant used behind the stainless steel window surrounds used to melt under the stand lights causing a real headache for the car cleaners. Cars destined for motor show duty were built without sealant, which was important as the trims were secured through the roof using what appear to be cut off bicycle spokes. The little nuts on the spokes were then used to pull the trim down.
In normal circumstances show cars returned to HWM and the sealant was applied before sale. Not this time. Mr Bart soon became quite soggy as did the car interior. I'm not sure how the story ended.
Mr Camus met his end in an FV3B, the precursor to the HK500.
Apologies chaps, that photo came up in my search under 'Albert Camus Facel Vega' and I just assumed it was him, now that I look at it I can see it is Lionel Bart!
Somewhere in my hard rive is a photo my other half took of a ratty looking FV project on the back of a transporter as we were going round the M25 a few years ago, I'll see if I can find it.
If my numbers come up this week I'll be straight on the blower to Justin Banks
Somewhere in my hard rive is a photo my other half took of a ratty looking FV project on the back of a transporter as we were going round the M25 a few years ago, I'll see if I can find it.
If my numbers come up this week I'll be straight on the blower to Justin Banks
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