Facel Vega HK500. A childhood dream or a nightmare?
Discussion
Once the car was back from the Classic Show work continued at a reasonable pace.
The boot floor was trimmed in a rubber that closely matched the original and a new cover was made for the spare wheel well.
At the show it became apparent that the doors both needed adjusting in order to close easily and so this was done. However, the door windows that had been made to replace the originals (damaged before my time by a close encounter with a sand blaster) seemed to be about 0.25 inches too long. These needed some work to make them fit properly.
On trying to start the engine, there were a number of problems. Firstly, the electric fuel pump, added to replace the mechanical unit in the tank, gave up the ghost. This provided the chance to do the job correctly and revitalise the mechanical pump. At the same time, the fuel hoses to the twin four barrel carbs were re-routed and refreshed.
Then the dynamo cried enough, so that was sent off to be refurbished. At about this time I began thinking seriously about converting the car to negative earth. This would have an advantage in terms of both resistance to corrosion long term and also it would help with the availability of electrical components for the car, so having consulted a couple of auto electricians the work to convert it was undertaken. When the dynamo returned it was refitted to the car, but the pulley didn't line up correctly. This was probably an issue that had been there all along as Facels are known to be susceptible to throwing their belts at high rpm. Adapting the bracket so that everything lined up was an easy task.
There was plenty of work to complete on the wiring as well. At this stage, approaching Christmas 2017, the dashboard had only been dummy fitted. There is precious little space between the dash and the bulkhead and an awful lot of stuff going on in there, so this work was not straightforward, but we were inching forwards.
In early 2018 the final items needed to complete the doors arrived from Holland - the all important seals that fit below the dog leg windscreens. I'd tried in vain to find someone in the UK that could produce these, or an equivalent, as cars such as the late '50s Vauxhall Victor and Cresta had very similar A pillars.
Small items can prove quite time consuming. The over centre catches for the rear windows were in poor condition and seized. The trim panels that butt against them needed work too. However, the end result can be very satisfying, particularly if you have seen the before and after transformation.
When all the stainless steel was polished at Castle Chrome in Dudley one of the door handle trims didn't make it back. Unfortunately, in the rather large pile of beautifully shiny trim its absence wasn't noticed. Subsequently I contacted the company and they did have a look, but to no avail. Had this been an MGB or an E-Type, this would have been no problem at all. A phone call to one of the well known specialist parts suppliers would have had one in the post that day. However, as you can imagine, with a Facel it's a bit more of an issue.
Facel closed it's doors for the final time on 31st October 1964 carrying a significant stock of parts either as finished products or as cast items that needed finishing. The factory parts inventory was sold off as part of the winding down of the company. It passed through the hands of a couple of individuals and most of it currently resides in Germany.
Looking on the German company's website I noticed that the background picture on the home page was of a wooden box full of part finished items. They looked just like the very door handle trim I was missing! With some excitement I contacted the company, but I soon had the impression that it was just a random photo and whilst that box might still exist, it was not easily accessible. Indeed, the part wasn't mentioned as being available anywhere on the website.
The upshot of this was that a new part was made in a local metal shop and a very good job they did too! Here is the original and the new part side by side.
By this stage it was almost time to try and start the engine again...to no avail! This time the starter motor packed up, so it was sent off to be reconditioned. When it returned the next day it worked beautifully on the bench, but not at all well in the car. Cue a new soleniod!
On 21st February 2018 it was the big 'fire up' day. No-one expected the engine to run perfectly after so long, but the expectation was that it would run.
And run it did...accompanied by large clouds of greyish white smoke which refused to clear. This hadn't been expected, as on the two previous occasions the car had been started in 2007 and 2012, it had run cleanly with good oil pressure. After all, the previous owner had assured me the engine had had a £3000 overhaul whilst in his care.
A compression check was carried out and it showed 150, 160, 160 and 160 on the left bank (which after a few minutes had stopped smoking) and 160, 160, 140 and 150 on the right bank (which continued to smoke). The lower two compressions were dropping with each successive crank of the engine. Something was obviously not right.
So, on the verge of getting the car running, it looked as if the engine would have to come out.
On 23rd February out it came...
And so the next chapter began!
The boot floor was trimmed in a rubber that closely matched the original and a new cover was made for the spare wheel well.
At the show it became apparent that the doors both needed adjusting in order to close easily and so this was done. However, the door windows that had been made to replace the originals (damaged before my time by a close encounter with a sand blaster) seemed to be about 0.25 inches too long. These needed some work to make them fit properly.
On trying to start the engine, there were a number of problems. Firstly, the electric fuel pump, added to replace the mechanical unit in the tank, gave up the ghost. This provided the chance to do the job correctly and revitalise the mechanical pump. At the same time, the fuel hoses to the twin four barrel carbs were re-routed and refreshed.
Then the dynamo cried enough, so that was sent off to be refurbished. At about this time I began thinking seriously about converting the car to negative earth. This would have an advantage in terms of both resistance to corrosion long term and also it would help with the availability of electrical components for the car, so having consulted a couple of auto electricians the work to convert it was undertaken. When the dynamo returned it was refitted to the car, but the pulley didn't line up correctly. This was probably an issue that had been there all along as Facels are known to be susceptible to throwing their belts at high rpm. Adapting the bracket so that everything lined up was an easy task.
There was plenty of work to complete on the wiring as well. At this stage, approaching Christmas 2017, the dashboard had only been dummy fitted. There is precious little space between the dash and the bulkhead and an awful lot of stuff going on in there, so this work was not straightforward, but we were inching forwards.
In early 2018 the final items needed to complete the doors arrived from Holland - the all important seals that fit below the dog leg windscreens. I'd tried in vain to find someone in the UK that could produce these, or an equivalent, as cars such as the late '50s Vauxhall Victor and Cresta had very similar A pillars.
Small items can prove quite time consuming. The over centre catches for the rear windows were in poor condition and seized. The trim panels that butt against them needed work too. However, the end result can be very satisfying, particularly if you have seen the before and after transformation.
When all the stainless steel was polished at Castle Chrome in Dudley one of the door handle trims didn't make it back. Unfortunately, in the rather large pile of beautifully shiny trim its absence wasn't noticed. Subsequently I contacted the company and they did have a look, but to no avail. Had this been an MGB or an E-Type, this would have been no problem at all. A phone call to one of the well known specialist parts suppliers would have had one in the post that day. However, as you can imagine, with a Facel it's a bit more of an issue.
Facel closed it's doors for the final time on 31st October 1964 carrying a significant stock of parts either as finished products or as cast items that needed finishing. The factory parts inventory was sold off as part of the winding down of the company. It passed through the hands of a couple of individuals and most of it currently resides in Germany.
Looking on the German company's website I noticed that the background picture on the home page was of a wooden box full of part finished items. They looked just like the very door handle trim I was missing! With some excitement I contacted the company, but I soon had the impression that it was just a random photo and whilst that box might still exist, it was not easily accessible. Indeed, the part wasn't mentioned as being available anywhere on the website.
The upshot of this was that a new part was made in a local metal shop and a very good job they did too! Here is the original and the new part side by side.
By this stage it was almost time to try and start the engine again...to no avail! This time the starter motor packed up, so it was sent off to be reconditioned. When it returned the next day it worked beautifully on the bench, but not at all well in the car. Cue a new soleniod!
On 21st February 2018 it was the big 'fire up' day. No-one expected the engine to run perfectly after so long, but the expectation was that it would run.
And run it did...accompanied by large clouds of greyish white smoke which refused to clear. This hadn't been expected, as on the two previous occasions the car had been started in 2007 and 2012, it had run cleanly with good oil pressure. After all, the previous owner had assured me the engine had had a £3000 overhaul whilst in his care.
A compression check was carried out and it showed 150, 160, 160 and 160 on the left bank (which after a few minutes had stopped smoking) and 160, 160, 140 and 150 on the right bank (which continued to smoke). The lower two compressions were dropping with each successive crank of the engine. Something was obviously not right.
So, on the verge of getting the car running, it looked as if the engine would have to come out.
On 23rd February out it came...
And so the next chapter began!
Quite a few Facels at auction in the summer. All need work...
https://www.classiccar-auctions.com/palmen
https://www.classiccar-auctions.com/palmen
never_thought_id_buy said:
Mentioned a few weeks ago........plus, there's apparently another eight, yes eight coming up for auction in the Netherlands, end of May, see link/listhttps://www.classiccar-auctions.com/palmen
P
williamp said:
Quite a few Facels at auction in the summer. All need work...
https://www.classiccar-auctions.com/palmen
Wow, that is some collection.https://www.classiccar-auctions.com/palmen
I don't understand why people hoard non roadworthy cars. I'd have to try and get them up and running!
Then again, I'd bet there are people who don't understand why you would spent 20+ years restoring a single car
Against a background of all these barn find Facels coming out of the woodwork, here is a unique car fresh from restoration. It will be interesting to see how the market values it.
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/ve23/villa-erba...
Then again, I'd bet there are people who don't understand why you would spent 20+ years restoring a single car
Against a background of all these barn find Facels coming out of the woodwork, here is a unique car fresh from restoration. It will be interesting to see how the market values it.
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/ve23/villa-erba...
theadman said:
Against a background of all these barn find Facels coming out of the woodwork, here is a unique car fresh from restoration. It will be interesting to see how the market values it.
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/ve23/villa-erba...
Beautiful, simply stunning.https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/ve23/villa-erba...
theadman said:
Against a background of all these barn find Facels coming out of the woodwork, here is a unique car fresh from restoration. It will be interesting to see how the market values it.
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/ve23/villa-erba...
Wow. Perhaps there is a finite amount of 'style' in the universe and cars like this coming back to life are the cause of the shortage of the aforementioned in modern manufacturers attempts? https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/ve23/villa-erba...
So, the story continues!
Having finally started the engine in February 2018, the event was accompanied by plumes of dense white smoke which refused to clear. Compression on two cylinders was down and dropping further, so the only thing to do was to remove the engine...again.
This created a bit of a dilemma. As my car is an early HK500 it has the comparatively rare 361 cu in Chrysler motor. Depending on what was found stripping my engine down, it was likely to cost much more to repair than to purchase a new 'crate' engine from Chrysler. This would have been a 383 cu in unit as fitted to later HK500s, so would have been model correct, just not correct to my particular car.
However, a car is only 'matching numbers' once, and mine still had its original engine.
So, in the end it was an easy (but, in the end quite expensive) decision. A '361' rebuild kit was ordered from Chrysler for about the same cost as a 383 'crate' engine.
As the engine was stripped down, the problems became apparent...
This was just one of the pistons; they all exhibited evidence of collision with valves. The previous owner had assured me that the car had had a £3000 engine rebuild in his care. If it had, refitting pistons with this amount of damage suggested to me that the quality of workmanship was not going to be at a standard I wanted.
As the timing chain looked new, we suspect that the original broke with the inevitable consequencies. Once the engine was fully apart measuring the crankshaft showed that it had been ground 0.010" already, but was showing evidence of scoring. So, off to the machine shop it went, along with the block and heads.
One of the pistons...
The block was rebored as there was evidence of scoring and the heads reworked to accept new valve guides, as on this engine these are part of the head rather than being press out and push in items. Once the guides were in the valve seats were cut to match. Given the damage it was no surprise that a number of valves were bent, so new ones were ordered.
Stripping the engine down...
As some of the engine paint from the last refresh was already lifting, the opportunity was taken to completely strip the block and have another go.
Then it was time to start building the engine back up again...
Camshaft with new bearings
Crankshaft installed
New pistons ready to go in
Short motor complete
In its repainted glory!
And back in the car...
Elapsed time...about three months, which is lightning quick by the standards of this restoration!
In the meantime, other aspects of the car were progressing.
The unsightly ignition key surround (made from unobtainium as usual) was remade in stainless steel
And there were yet more fun and games with the wiring.
...but I'll leave that for next time!
Having finally started the engine in February 2018, the event was accompanied by plumes of dense white smoke which refused to clear. Compression on two cylinders was down and dropping further, so the only thing to do was to remove the engine...again.
This created a bit of a dilemma. As my car is an early HK500 it has the comparatively rare 361 cu in Chrysler motor. Depending on what was found stripping my engine down, it was likely to cost much more to repair than to purchase a new 'crate' engine from Chrysler. This would have been a 383 cu in unit as fitted to later HK500s, so would have been model correct, just not correct to my particular car.
However, a car is only 'matching numbers' once, and mine still had its original engine.
So, in the end it was an easy (but, in the end quite expensive) decision. A '361' rebuild kit was ordered from Chrysler for about the same cost as a 383 'crate' engine.
As the engine was stripped down, the problems became apparent...
This was just one of the pistons; they all exhibited evidence of collision with valves. The previous owner had assured me that the car had had a £3000 engine rebuild in his care. If it had, refitting pistons with this amount of damage suggested to me that the quality of workmanship was not going to be at a standard I wanted.
As the timing chain looked new, we suspect that the original broke with the inevitable consequencies. Once the engine was fully apart measuring the crankshaft showed that it had been ground 0.010" already, but was showing evidence of scoring. So, off to the machine shop it went, along with the block and heads.
One of the pistons...
The block was rebored as there was evidence of scoring and the heads reworked to accept new valve guides, as on this engine these are part of the head rather than being press out and push in items. Once the guides were in the valve seats were cut to match. Given the damage it was no surprise that a number of valves were bent, so new ones were ordered.
Stripping the engine down...
As some of the engine paint from the last refresh was already lifting, the opportunity was taken to completely strip the block and have another go.
Then it was time to start building the engine back up again...
Camshaft with new bearings
Crankshaft installed
New pistons ready to go in
Short motor complete
In its repainted glory!
And back in the car...
Elapsed time...about three months, which is lightning quick by the standards of this restoration!
In the meantime, other aspects of the car were progressing.
The unsightly ignition key surround (made from unobtainium as usual) was remade in stainless steel
And there were yet more fun and games with the wiring.
...but I'll leave that for next time!
theadman said:
However, a car is only 'matching numbers' once, and mine still had its original engine.
So, in the end it was an easy (but, in the end quite expensive) decision. A '361' rebuild kit was ordered from Chrysler for about the same cost as a 383 'crate' engine.
I'd have bought a crate 383 and stamped the original numbers on it So, in the end it was an easy (but, in the end quite expensive) decision. A '361' rebuild kit was ordered from Chrysler for about the same cost as a 383 'crate' engine.
B'stard Child said:
theadman said:
However, a car is only 'matching numbers' once, and mine still had its original engine.
So, in the end it was an easy (but, in the end quite expensive) decision. A '361' rebuild kit was ordered from Chrysler for about the same cost as a 383 'crate' engine.
I'd have bought a crate 383 and stamped the original numbers on it So, in the end it was an easy (but, in the end quite expensive) decision. A '361' rebuild kit was ordered from Chrysler for about the same cost as a 383 'crate' engine.
Kept the original engine wrapped up safe though. Over the last few days I have read the entire thread dipping in and out when I have a spare half hour or so.
As someone who restores cars for a living and cars of my own as my hobby I can relate to many aspects of what can only be described as pure dedication and commitment on your part to persevere with brining what I gather to be a signifiant part of Facels history here in the UK.
I have never seen a Facel of any sort in person and hadn't even heard of them until about 15 years or so ago when during a conversation about classic cars in general, a friend of mine educated me on what they are.
Kudos to you theadman and looking forward to seeing it progress!
P.S, black over red is sub zero cool!
As someone who restores cars for a living and cars of my own as my hobby I can relate to many aspects of what can only be described as pure dedication and commitment on your part to persevere with brining what I gather to be a signifiant part of Facels history here in the UK.
I have never seen a Facel of any sort in person and hadn't even heard of them until about 15 years or so ago when during a conversation about classic cars in general, a friend of mine educated me on what they are.
Kudos to you theadman and looking forward to seeing it progress!
P.S, black over red is sub zero cool!
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