Facel Vega HK500. A childhood dream or a nightmare?
Discussion
Rumdoodle said:
A convertible? https://www.gallery-aaldering.com/facel-vega-fv3-1...
According to the books I have, there were 11 factory produced V8 engined convertibles, only one of which was an FV3. My info also suggests that all FV3s had a 4.5 litre engine, so if the engine really is a 6.3 litre (383 cu in) it must have been installed sometime in the intervening years, as it was launched in 1959, two years after the advertised car was built. I wonder if it has been re-stamped?!!Most of the four cylinder cars were convertibles.
Continuing the story...
Whilst the engine was out of the car being rebuilt, work progressed in other areas. As we haven't had a picture of the whole car for quite a while, this is it sitting patiently, waiting for its shiny, refreshed motor...
At the other end of the car, the issues continued to emerge. The wiring loom to the back of the car had been bodged to an unbelievable extent, probably in the late 1960s or early '70s, in an attempt to keep the car on the road. It is safe to say whoever had completed the work was clueless! In their defence, all the wires from the factory were sheathed in black, with coloured collars at each end, most of which had disappeared over the years. Here is an email I received at the time, that clearly illustrates the point!
[i]Having trouble trying to work out that when we press the brake pedal , the reversing lights come on ! And no matter what we do , we cannot get to the bottom of it , I remembered there’s a bunch of connections by the factory in behind the left hand kick panel ,
Look what we uncovered , some really bad soldering and nasty joins !
Photo on its way
All the best
Ian[/i]
The rear loom was removed from a point behind the dashboard and then stretched out over a convenient truck chassis which was the only thing long enough for the job. This revealed a number of new wires that had been added to circumvent faults, but sadly the feeds had been taken from the wrong places. The result was random things happening when current was applied to a particular circuit. In essence, the rear loom was remade the way it should have been.
This cured all the faults except the fact that when the right indicator was activated, the left front one also wanted to join in the fun. The issue was traced to the indicator boss on the steering column and that was bad news. The indicators are controlled by a piece of 1950s bakelite enshrouded hardware that was probably designed by Satan. 60 years on, not only is it fiendishly complicated, but it is brittle and fragile as well. Part of the complexity is that the front indicators actually use the fog lights, so the indicator circuit has to override the fog lights if they are in use.
The dashboard has four warning lights for ignition, high beam, indicators and low fuel level. As far as I know, these had never functioned and were proving obstinate. A potential reason was found in the fuse box...
The three cut wires were duly traced back, but progress wasn't as swift as it might have been due to the critical part of the wiring diagram being missing on the photocopy we were using! Despite this the warning lights were finally made to function with the exception of the low fuel one as the sender was found to be seized solid.
Sorry for the relatively short update this evening!
Whilst the engine was out of the car being rebuilt, work progressed in other areas. As we haven't had a picture of the whole car for quite a while, this is it sitting patiently, waiting for its shiny, refreshed motor...
At the other end of the car, the issues continued to emerge. The wiring loom to the back of the car had been bodged to an unbelievable extent, probably in the late 1960s or early '70s, in an attempt to keep the car on the road. It is safe to say whoever had completed the work was clueless! In their defence, all the wires from the factory were sheathed in black, with coloured collars at each end, most of which had disappeared over the years. Here is an email I received at the time, that clearly illustrates the point!
[i]Having trouble trying to work out that when we press the brake pedal , the reversing lights come on ! And no matter what we do , we cannot get to the bottom of it , I remembered there’s a bunch of connections by the factory in behind the left hand kick panel ,
Look what we uncovered , some really bad soldering and nasty joins !
Photo on its way
All the best
Ian[/i]
The rear loom was removed from a point behind the dashboard and then stretched out over a convenient truck chassis which was the only thing long enough for the job. This revealed a number of new wires that had been added to circumvent faults, but sadly the feeds had been taken from the wrong places. The result was random things happening when current was applied to a particular circuit. In essence, the rear loom was remade the way it should have been.
This cured all the faults except the fact that when the right indicator was activated, the left front one also wanted to join in the fun. The issue was traced to the indicator boss on the steering column and that was bad news. The indicators are controlled by a piece of 1950s bakelite enshrouded hardware that was probably designed by Satan. 60 years on, not only is it fiendishly complicated, but it is brittle and fragile as well. Part of the complexity is that the front indicators actually use the fog lights, so the indicator circuit has to override the fog lights if they are in use.
The dashboard has four warning lights for ignition, high beam, indicators and low fuel level. As far as I know, these had never functioned and were proving obstinate. A potential reason was found in the fuse box...
The three cut wires were duly traced back, but progress wasn't as swift as it might have been due to the critical part of the wiring diagram being missing on the photocopy we were using! Despite this the warning lights were finally made to function with the exception of the low fuel one as the sender was found to be seized solid.
Sorry for the relatively short update this evening!
So, on with the story...only another five years left until we are up to date!
By May 2018 the engine rebuild was well on the way to being complete and the block and heads were back in the car.
The carburettors had been soda blasted and then refreshed with new rebuild kits, but some of the linkage and the choke mechanism were missing. At the stage the engine was started in late 2017 (when the need for a rebuild became apparent), Ian let me know that, even though they had been rebuilt, the carbs were leaking fuel.
The option was to persevere with the original Carter carbs or to buy brand new replacement Edelbrocks. Carter no longer make the AFB (aluminium four barrel) carburettors that were standard on so many American performance engines in the 1950s and '60s. I assume that they sold the licence to Edelbrock as they manufacture a carbon copy of the carb.
Normally, I would opt to stick with the Carters, but the issue was that they had already been rebuilt once and this had not cured the fuel leak issues. It was therefore probable that the problem wasn't in the seals, but in the spindles and shafts that had become worn. On that basis, trying to make them fuel tight could have ended up burning a significant number of man hours with no guarantee of success.
At around £330 per carb going the Edelbrock route seemed like the sensible idea. It also solved the issue of linkages and choke, as both were readily available off the shelf. In fact, Edelbrock was able to reproduce the exact pairing of carbs that were used originally on manual HK500s. Trying to replicate this in the Carter universe had already taken me more than a year without a successful outcome.
As we were being very specific, it took a while to source exactly the right components, but eventually they turned up from The States and were fitted to the car in September.
Hopefully, with the exception of the seized fuel sender, we now had a reliable delivery of petrol to the engine.
Shortly after the 2017 NEC Classic Car Show had finished we had had a discussion about the quality and functionality of the minor gauges that sit in centre of the dash. The clock was knackered and the condition of the water temperature, ammeter and fuel gauges was unknown. Given the level to which the rest of the interior was being restored, I was a bit concerned that the gauges might look a a bit below par. All Facel gauges have white painted/stencilled numerals on a black background. Some of the numerals are painted on the gauge in the traditional way, but in some instances they are actually painted onto the rear of the glass, as here on the speedo.
Over time the white paint has dried out and become powder, adhering to the gauge by the skin of its teeth. Simply touch it and it will fall off.
Most restoration companies won't touch gauges as they are so fragile and easy to mess up. The one exception in the UK is Speedy Cables who have a first class restoration service. The problem is, that whilst they might be speedy in their cable manufacture, they are anything but when it comes to gauges. I was warned that there was a 26 week turn around time. Given that the only other option was to send them off to mainland Europe, which could be subject to the same sort of wait, the gauges went to Speedy Cables.
Six months came and went. Follow up phone calls were met with woolly replies.
Eight months in, it became clear something was wrong. After more phone calls, it became apparent that whilst the gauges were on site, they didn't appear to have been placed in the work queue! Nothing was offered in the way of an explanation, nor an apology, it was a simple choice of have the gauges back or wait for them to be completed! There was no option, but to wait.
A possible explanation became clear shortly after. Ian was contacted by Speedy Cables as the technician needed to know the ohms reading from the fuel sender, so he could correctly calibrate the gauge. To do this meant rebuilding the sender and coaxing it to work, as in the intervening years it had seized solid. Maybe work never started as the information Speedy Cables needed was incomplete?
In the end it took 14 months. The gauges suddenly appeared in the post on 26th February 2019, having been sent to Speedy Cables in December 2017! This is why restoring a car can take years longer than it should!
It might have taken forever, but the end result was brilliant! The cost seemed pretty reasonable too, given the amount of intricate work required. The clock was converted to a quartz mechanism so should be more reliable from this point on.
In the meantime, there were some fun and games with the new carbs. Although they were meant to be a pattern part for the Carter AFB, when the air filter bases were offered up, they didn't fit. Given that the AFB was in production for nearly 60 years, it is natural to assume that it was gradually modified and improved over that period. Whilst the carb body was identical to the Carters that Facel specified, the diameter of the flange where the air intake fitted was different. This meant remaking the base of the air filters to accommodate the larger diameter as adapting the old ones wasn't feasible.
The spacers that fit between the carbs and the inlet manifold were also incorrect, as the air filters were in danger of fouling the bonnet when it was shut. Whilst it was a simple case of sending the spacers back and specifying the size of the ones that were needed, this all took time. In Ian's defence, as the Edelbrocks were meant to be a direct replacement for the Carters, it was reasonable to assume that the original spacers and air filter bodies would be a straight fit.
However, this hassle should be offset against the issues that probably would have been encountered if we had tried to save the original Carters. All the mechanism was worn in each carb and the availability of the new or reconditioned parts required to properly rebuild them was questionable. Then there was the missing linkage and choke, where we had no pattern to work to as what was on the car had been cobbled together in the past.
Finally, the carbs were on the car and looking good!
When the time came to fit the centre console gauges back into the dashboard, more fiddling was required. The original loom only allowed about 2 inches (5 cm for you younger people!) of free play between the centre console and the main dashboard, making it virtually impossible to wire up the gauges. Having persevered for a while, it became obvious that more space was needed to complete the job. So, each wire was cut, a new length soldered in place and then heat shrunk to allow enough of a gap. Whilst this was a faff, it will enable anyone in the future to connect and disconnect the gauges easily.
Here is work in progress...don't worry, we haven't added the amount of additional wire the picture might suggest!
All this work was needed as Ian wanted to have all the electrics behind the dashboard in place before firing up the engine, to ensure the risk of fire was minimised. There is precious little space behind the dashboard when everything is in place and so ensuring the wiring loom doesn't foul the wiper arms and that the back of the ammeter is properly isolated are key trouble spots (and fire hazards) on an HK500.
Given everything that needed to be done, it wasn't until late 2019 that the engine was first fired up. I have the momentous occasion captured. Clicking on the image should run the clip...
By May 2018 the engine rebuild was well on the way to being complete and the block and heads were back in the car.
The carburettors had been soda blasted and then refreshed with new rebuild kits, but some of the linkage and the choke mechanism were missing. At the stage the engine was started in late 2017 (when the need for a rebuild became apparent), Ian let me know that, even though they had been rebuilt, the carbs were leaking fuel.
The option was to persevere with the original Carter carbs or to buy brand new replacement Edelbrocks. Carter no longer make the AFB (aluminium four barrel) carburettors that were standard on so many American performance engines in the 1950s and '60s. I assume that they sold the licence to Edelbrock as they manufacture a carbon copy of the carb.
Normally, I would opt to stick with the Carters, but the issue was that they had already been rebuilt once and this had not cured the fuel leak issues. It was therefore probable that the problem wasn't in the seals, but in the spindles and shafts that had become worn. On that basis, trying to make them fuel tight could have ended up burning a significant number of man hours with no guarantee of success.
At around £330 per carb going the Edelbrock route seemed like the sensible idea. It also solved the issue of linkages and choke, as both were readily available off the shelf. In fact, Edelbrock was able to reproduce the exact pairing of carbs that were used originally on manual HK500s. Trying to replicate this in the Carter universe had already taken me more than a year without a successful outcome.
As we were being very specific, it took a while to source exactly the right components, but eventually they turned up from The States and were fitted to the car in September.
Hopefully, with the exception of the seized fuel sender, we now had a reliable delivery of petrol to the engine.
Shortly after the 2017 NEC Classic Car Show had finished we had had a discussion about the quality and functionality of the minor gauges that sit in centre of the dash. The clock was knackered and the condition of the water temperature, ammeter and fuel gauges was unknown. Given the level to which the rest of the interior was being restored, I was a bit concerned that the gauges might look a a bit below par. All Facel gauges have white painted/stencilled numerals on a black background. Some of the numerals are painted on the gauge in the traditional way, but in some instances they are actually painted onto the rear of the glass, as here on the speedo.
Over time the white paint has dried out and become powder, adhering to the gauge by the skin of its teeth. Simply touch it and it will fall off.
Most restoration companies won't touch gauges as they are so fragile and easy to mess up. The one exception in the UK is Speedy Cables who have a first class restoration service. The problem is, that whilst they might be speedy in their cable manufacture, they are anything but when it comes to gauges. I was warned that there was a 26 week turn around time. Given that the only other option was to send them off to mainland Europe, which could be subject to the same sort of wait, the gauges went to Speedy Cables.
Six months came and went. Follow up phone calls were met with woolly replies.
Eight months in, it became clear something was wrong. After more phone calls, it became apparent that whilst the gauges were on site, they didn't appear to have been placed in the work queue! Nothing was offered in the way of an explanation, nor an apology, it was a simple choice of have the gauges back or wait for them to be completed! There was no option, but to wait.
A possible explanation became clear shortly after. Ian was contacted by Speedy Cables as the technician needed to know the ohms reading from the fuel sender, so he could correctly calibrate the gauge. To do this meant rebuilding the sender and coaxing it to work, as in the intervening years it had seized solid. Maybe work never started as the information Speedy Cables needed was incomplete?
In the end it took 14 months. The gauges suddenly appeared in the post on 26th February 2019, having been sent to Speedy Cables in December 2017! This is why restoring a car can take years longer than it should!
It might have taken forever, but the end result was brilliant! The cost seemed pretty reasonable too, given the amount of intricate work required. The clock was converted to a quartz mechanism so should be more reliable from this point on.
In the meantime, there were some fun and games with the new carbs. Although they were meant to be a pattern part for the Carter AFB, when the air filter bases were offered up, they didn't fit. Given that the AFB was in production for nearly 60 years, it is natural to assume that it was gradually modified and improved over that period. Whilst the carb body was identical to the Carters that Facel specified, the diameter of the flange where the air intake fitted was different. This meant remaking the base of the air filters to accommodate the larger diameter as adapting the old ones wasn't feasible.
The spacers that fit between the carbs and the inlet manifold were also incorrect, as the air filters were in danger of fouling the bonnet when it was shut. Whilst it was a simple case of sending the spacers back and specifying the size of the ones that were needed, this all took time. In Ian's defence, as the Edelbrocks were meant to be a direct replacement for the Carters, it was reasonable to assume that the original spacers and air filter bodies would be a straight fit.
However, this hassle should be offset against the issues that probably would have been encountered if we had tried to save the original Carters. All the mechanism was worn in each carb and the availability of the new or reconditioned parts required to properly rebuild them was questionable. Then there was the missing linkage and choke, where we had no pattern to work to as what was on the car had been cobbled together in the past.
Finally, the carbs were on the car and looking good!
When the time came to fit the centre console gauges back into the dashboard, more fiddling was required. The original loom only allowed about 2 inches (5 cm for you younger people!) of free play between the centre console and the main dashboard, making it virtually impossible to wire up the gauges. Having persevered for a while, it became obvious that more space was needed to complete the job. So, each wire was cut, a new length soldered in place and then heat shrunk to allow enough of a gap. Whilst this was a faff, it will enable anyone in the future to connect and disconnect the gauges easily.
Here is work in progress...don't worry, we haven't added the amount of additional wire the picture might suggest!
All this work was needed as Ian wanted to have all the electrics behind the dashboard in place before firing up the engine, to ensure the risk of fire was minimised. There is precious little space behind the dashboard when everything is in place and so ensuring the wiring loom doesn't foul the wiper arms and that the back of the ammeter is properly isolated are key trouble spots (and fire hazards) on an HK500.
Given everything that needed to be done, it wasn't until late 2019 that the engine was first fired up. I have the momentous occasion captured. Clicking on the image should run the clip...
HawthornBowTie said:
Brilliant job, congrats for bringing back to life such a beauty !
Thanks HawthornBowTie.jimbobs said:
The wood of the dash is just beautiful and even the carbs and filters are works of art!
The dash is made of aluminium and painted with wood effect. Jimbobs, finding someone who could paint the dash was a challenge. The first person was a specialist in the antique field and the result was far from spectacular. The lady who came up trumps was actually one of the team who create film props at Pinewood Studios!
tonyvid said:
Awesome work! Those carbs are like fuel buckets. The level of detail work is 
Thanks Tony, much appreciated! In my view, there is only one way to do a job...and that's properly (or to the best level possible). There are some occasions when a lack of parts limits what is possible or what is economically viable.Rumdoodle said:
Several Facels up for sale in the Palmen barn find auction over the next couple of weeks https://www.classiccar-auctions.com/palmen. Quite a bonanza for spare parts. The owners' clubs are probably all over it already.
The prices 'barn finds' are fetching compared to the value of restored cars is not in proportion. Whilst this trend continues it isn't really viable to buy a car for parts unless you have deep pockets and are desperate for a number of show stopping items. Even then, it is likely to be a costly exercise.I'm not sure the clubs will be in the same league as some of the collectors when it comes to the Palmen cars. However, the fact that there are so many of them all at once might make the prices a bit more affordable.
mdk1 said:
Very nice one featuring in the latest Harry’s Garage vid on YouTube.
Apparently one of two RHD Facel lls fitted with the larger 413 cu in (6750cc) engine and manual transmission, the other being the car originally owned by Ringo Starr.I'm afraid the momentum has been temporarily lost on documenting the HK500 saga. Probably one more installment will bring us up to date, so once it cools down a bit, I'll complete the job! I'm surprised how time consuming it is to write something that makes sense and then upload the relevant pictures.
I'm amazed there has been so much interest, to be honest...so, thank you everyone!
I noticed that the HK500 registered HKK 1D (or HK KID) was sold at the Historics auction at Ascot on 27th May. When I last saw the car it was a sombre shade of dark green, having been restored in the 1990s. Apparently, it is fresh out of another £50k restoration with a change of colour to gold and bronze.
https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2023-2...
I'd be interested to know what the sale price or high bid was, as this is the first HK500 for sale in the UK in a while that hasn't needed restoration. The H&H barn find made nearly £60k (inc premium) in April, which I felt was very strong money having experienced the cost of bringing one of these cars back from the brink.
https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/15-1960-facel-...
https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2023-2...
I'd be interested to know what the sale price or high bid was, as this is the first HK500 for sale in the UK in a while that hasn't needed restoration. The H&H barn find made nearly £60k (inc premium) in April, which I felt was very strong money having experienced the cost of bringing one of these cars back from the brink.
https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/15-1960-facel-...
adblack28 said:
Just a note to say I'm finding this thread utterly fascinating.
The reworked Gold / Bronze Auction car appears to have been purchased by Kevin Wheatcroft (WW2 memorabilia collector and son of Tom Wheatcroft of Donington Park fame).
link to the Wheatcroft Collection facebook post (if it works)
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=25324370410828...
Thanks adblack. Whilst writing this has been quite cathartic, it is a real bonus when people let me know they're interested. The reworked Gold / Bronze Auction car appears to have been purchased by Kevin Wheatcroft (WW2 memorabilia collector and son of Tom Wheatcroft of Donington Park fame).
link to the Wheatcroft Collection facebook post (if it works)
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=25324370410828...
Thanks also for the information about the Wheatcroft Collection purchase...the link does work!
It's currently raining, it's cool and I've finally managed to find some spare time. So I've run out of excuses...on with the story...
The end of 2019 was a real milestone. By this point, every aspect of the car had received attention, the last rather large item being the rebuild of the supposedly rebuilt engine! Surely, it could only be downhill from here?
Entering 2020 with renewed optimism Ian started to tackle the 'to do' list.
The rear lights were permanently fitted, having been trial fitted several times. This also included fixing an earthing fault that meant the rear lights had a mind of their own!
This picture is from an earlier trial fit.
When I bought the car, the rear light lenses were present, but in awful condition and the 'V' perspex pieces along with the rear wing trims that go over them were missing.
A few years earlier I had managed to buy the wing trims and a non matching pair of 'V' pieces (the ones on the HK500 are different from the preceding models and I had one of each)! Now the car was being restored to a higher standard the light lenses were not up to scratch. Also, once a lit bulb was placed behind them, it was apparent that they had lost most of their colour...the light was pale pink rather than red!
The first step was to see if replacements were available through Amicale Facel Holland, the 'go to' stockists of all things Facel Vega. They were, but at a price that made me wince.
I decided to see what other options were available. The lenses themselves weren't too expensive, it was the 'V' pieces that ramped the cost up. Through a completely different avenue I came across someone locally who had a massive computer programmed 'cutting machine' (CNC machine?). It filled his double garage and was a serious piece of kit!
He told me that cutting some new 'V' pieces would be very simple and, compared to some of the intricate work he was doing, I felt sure it would. The next time I visited the car in Cornwall I brought the pieces back with me and made detailed patterns. Armed with these I went to see my CNC friend and he set his machine up. All we needed now was the correct perspex material. The fact the original was 9.3mm thick did not bode well for a complete match! However, 10mm would do.
To cut a long story short, trying to source dark red, translucent 10mm sheet proved impossible, unless I bought yards and yards of it. Various suppliers promised samples that never turned up and I even found a website that was an aggregator for Chinese production facilities. On there I came across a promising lead, but when I tracked it through, it actually led to Pilkington in the UK. A rather strange phone call then ensued with the people at Pilkington who professed to have no knowledge of working with perspex or similar sheet. As I discovered, you can waste days on the internet trying to track down fairly simple commodities.
At that point, the person's CNC machine seriously malfunctioned and was going to cost thousands to repair. It became obvious that this project was not going to fly, so I just bit the bullet and bought the parts from Holland (but I'm getting ahead of the story)!
The next thing tackled was the speedometer. Somehow the thing had completely screwed itself up. This picture was taken at the NEC Show in 2017. It's a poor photo, but you just might be able to make out that the stationary car is travelling at 120mph according to the speedo. (Sorry the picture has decided to go antipodean!)
The other thing I noticed subsequently was that the odometer had somehow gained 10,000 miles! Here it is in 2010...
and this was taken in 2020.
Maybe the car did actually work and Ian had been using it for Uber duties every evening?
More likely, the speedo was caput as fuel consumption alone would rule out the Uber option!
Ian managed to fix the speedo without having to resort to another trip to Speedy Cables and the inevitable long wait, but could do nothing about the additional 10,000 miles. This is a shame as I have a strong suspicion the 59,900 miles shown originally is the correct mileage for the car.
We are still none the wiser as to how the final digit of the odometer could move, leaving the rest in place. There was possibly something awry back in 2010, as the middle numbers were not aligned.
Having had the speedometer out of the car, it was time to refit all the instruments and then sort out their illumination, along with the four warning lights between the main dials. This was a time consuming job as none of the dash lights had been operational for almost 50 years and exact bulb replacements are no longer available! The same could be said for the interior lights, which should operate both off a switch on the centre console and via the door switches. Most of this wiring had long since disappeared, so had to be completely remade, having first determined how the original wiring loom was routed.
This stage in the process really highlighted that it's the myriad of small things that make progress so slow. To all intents and purposes the car looked finished, but the reality was very different. The heating system was the next thing to put up a fight. Trying to thread the demisting tubes behind the dash, without them fouling the wiper arm mechanism proved tricky. At the other end of the system, the heater control cables really wanted to arc against the base of the cigarette lighter and the backs of the gauges. This took a lot of fiddling around in very confined spaces, accompanied with some inventive language! It also took time.
With the rear bumpers now finally fitted to the car, it was time to finish another job...the exhaust pipes were trimmed to the correct length. Whilst they were OK before, it's little details like this that can set a car apart.
Around this time the better of the two rear light 'V' pieces was cracked. No-one knows how it happened, but happen it did. The other one was sun damaged anyway and had crazed. So now every part of the rear lights was past its best. This proved to be the catalyst to take action and as mentioned previously, I ended up buying replacement parts from Holland. They were expensive, but looked the part.
Back in 2004 I bought new wire wheels from MWS to replace the originals that were still on the car. At that stage I opted for silver painted wheels for two reasons; firstly, I actually thought the originals were painted as they were liberally coated in silver paint, and secondly, painted wheels are stronger than chromed ones and Facels had a habit in period of breaking spokes if driven enthusiastically.
In the intervening years I had discovered that the original wheels had started life chromed and to be honest, the likelihood of me driving the car in a manner that might break spokes had also diminished with the passing of time!
I found this photo for sale on a French website that shows the car on its original chromed wheels...
So, in 2021 I decided to put the car back onto chrome wires. I bought new tyres at the same time as the P4000s on the car were then 17 years old, but had never turned a wheel on the road! What a waste!
This photo doesn't do the wheels justice, but they do give the whole car more presence, blinging it up to match all the stainless trim that festoons the car.
It is now back on the painted wires until the moment it is road ready! The wheels are the same size and offset as an Aston DB6 Mk2, so if anyone has one and could do with a set of silver painted wires, please let me know!
I think there is probably one more update to go, so I'll leave it there for now.
The end of 2019 was a real milestone. By this point, every aspect of the car had received attention, the last rather large item being the rebuild of the supposedly rebuilt engine! Surely, it could only be downhill from here?
Entering 2020 with renewed optimism Ian started to tackle the 'to do' list.
The rear lights were permanently fitted, having been trial fitted several times. This also included fixing an earthing fault that meant the rear lights had a mind of their own!
This picture is from an earlier trial fit.
When I bought the car, the rear light lenses were present, but in awful condition and the 'V' perspex pieces along with the rear wing trims that go over them were missing.
A few years earlier I had managed to buy the wing trims and a non matching pair of 'V' pieces (the ones on the HK500 are different from the preceding models and I had one of each)! Now the car was being restored to a higher standard the light lenses were not up to scratch. Also, once a lit bulb was placed behind them, it was apparent that they had lost most of their colour...the light was pale pink rather than red!
The first step was to see if replacements were available through Amicale Facel Holland, the 'go to' stockists of all things Facel Vega. They were, but at a price that made me wince.
I decided to see what other options were available. The lenses themselves weren't too expensive, it was the 'V' pieces that ramped the cost up. Through a completely different avenue I came across someone locally who had a massive computer programmed 'cutting machine' (CNC machine?). It filled his double garage and was a serious piece of kit!
He told me that cutting some new 'V' pieces would be very simple and, compared to some of the intricate work he was doing, I felt sure it would. The next time I visited the car in Cornwall I brought the pieces back with me and made detailed patterns. Armed with these I went to see my CNC friend and he set his machine up. All we needed now was the correct perspex material. The fact the original was 9.3mm thick did not bode well for a complete match! However, 10mm would do.
To cut a long story short, trying to source dark red, translucent 10mm sheet proved impossible, unless I bought yards and yards of it. Various suppliers promised samples that never turned up and I even found a website that was an aggregator for Chinese production facilities. On there I came across a promising lead, but when I tracked it through, it actually led to Pilkington in the UK. A rather strange phone call then ensued with the people at Pilkington who professed to have no knowledge of working with perspex or similar sheet. As I discovered, you can waste days on the internet trying to track down fairly simple commodities.
At that point, the person's CNC machine seriously malfunctioned and was going to cost thousands to repair. It became obvious that this project was not going to fly, so I just bit the bullet and bought the parts from Holland (but I'm getting ahead of the story)!
The next thing tackled was the speedometer. Somehow the thing had completely screwed itself up. This picture was taken at the NEC Show in 2017. It's a poor photo, but you just might be able to make out that the stationary car is travelling at 120mph according to the speedo. (Sorry the picture has decided to go antipodean!)
The other thing I noticed subsequently was that the odometer had somehow gained 10,000 miles! Here it is in 2010...
and this was taken in 2020.
Maybe the car did actually work and Ian had been using it for Uber duties every evening?
More likely, the speedo was caput as fuel consumption alone would rule out the Uber option!
Ian managed to fix the speedo without having to resort to another trip to Speedy Cables and the inevitable long wait, but could do nothing about the additional 10,000 miles. This is a shame as I have a strong suspicion the 59,900 miles shown originally is the correct mileage for the car.
We are still none the wiser as to how the final digit of the odometer could move, leaving the rest in place. There was possibly something awry back in 2010, as the middle numbers were not aligned.
Having had the speedometer out of the car, it was time to refit all the instruments and then sort out their illumination, along with the four warning lights between the main dials. This was a time consuming job as none of the dash lights had been operational for almost 50 years and exact bulb replacements are no longer available! The same could be said for the interior lights, which should operate both off a switch on the centre console and via the door switches. Most of this wiring had long since disappeared, so had to be completely remade, having first determined how the original wiring loom was routed.
This stage in the process really highlighted that it's the myriad of small things that make progress so slow. To all intents and purposes the car looked finished, but the reality was very different. The heating system was the next thing to put up a fight. Trying to thread the demisting tubes behind the dash, without them fouling the wiper arm mechanism proved tricky. At the other end of the system, the heater control cables really wanted to arc against the base of the cigarette lighter and the backs of the gauges. This took a lot of fiddling around in very confined spaces, accompanied with some inventive language! It also took time.
With the rear bumpers now finally fitted to the car, it was time to finish another job...the exhaust pipes were trimmed to the correct length. Whilst they were OK before, it's little details like this that can set a car apart.
Around this time the better of the two rear light 'V' pieces was cracked. No-one knows how it happened, but happen it did. The other one was sun damaged anyway and had crazed. So now every part of the rear lights was past its best. This proved to be the catalyst to take action and as mentioned previously, I ended up buying replacement parts from Holland. They were expensive, but looked the part.
Back in 2004 I bought new wire wheels from MWS to replace the originals that were still on the car. At that stage I opted for silver painted wheels for two reasons; firstly, I actually thought the originals were painted as they were liberally coated in silver paint, and secondly, painted wheels are stronger than chromed ones and Facels had a habit in period of breaking spokes if driven enthusiastically.
In the intervening years I had discovered that the original wheels had started life chromed and to be honest, the likelihood of me driving the car in a manner that might break spokes had also diminished with the passing of time!
I found this photo for sale on a French website that shows the car on its original chromed wheels...
So, in 2021 I decided to put the car back onto chrome wires. I bought new tyres at the same time as the P4000s on the car were then 17 years old, but had never turned a wheel on the road! What a waste!
This photo doesn't do the wheels justice, but they do give the whole car more presence, blinging it up to match all the stainless trim that festoons the car.
It is now back on the painted wires until the moment it is road ready! The wheels are the same size and offset as an Aston DB6 Mk2, so if anyone has one and could do with a set of silver painted wires, please let me know!
I think there is probably one more update to go, so I'll leave it there for now.
Mercdriver said:
Looking good, bet you can’t wait to drive it
Thanks, it is beginning to look the part now. As for driving it, I think the restoration has been going on for so long that my mind can't adjust to the thought of it being anything but a static exhibit!ChevronB19 said:
You are (or possibly were, given this is a retrospective thread) doing a beautiful job.
Thanks, I am trying to complete the car to a decent standard. Sadly, the present tense is still appropriate!MrTidy said:
Looking fantastic - I can't wait for the next update!
In a sense, neither can I! The next update is easy...I've just got to find the time to write it. It's the one after that, when we are up to date, that might take some time!Adam. said:
Looking lovely
Dinoboy said:
Love it!
Thank you both for the compliments.urquattroGus said:
Looking for some advice on purchasing an HK500 are there any UK Facel Experts that can be recommended?
urquattroGus, as you can imagine, it's hard enough to find anyone who has experience of working on Facels, but there are a few around. Happy to share my thoughts if you PM me.r5kdt said:
Mercdriver said:
Yes, you must, please!
this +1I think the reason it has taken so long is linked to the question asked above by urquattroGus. If there had been a 'go to' Facel expert in the UK with a dedicated workshop I would probably have taken the car there. At the time I bought my car the only Facel specialist (expert) in Europe with a dedicated shop was Hans Ruhe in Holland. Hans did quote for completing the car, but it was more than the car would have been worth once completed. With hindsight of course......
Instead, I went my own way and am older and wiser as a result
bob1179 said:
What a wonderful thread, I have really enjoyed reading it. I am really looking forward to seeing the finished car, a real credit to your perseverance!
Thanks bob1179. I really want to have the car finished now as there is so little to do. Progress is very slow due to the availability of parts and the pressure on workshop resources. My perseverance is running a little low at the moment!Adam. said:
theadman said:
Hans did quote for completing the car, but it was more than the car would have been worth once completed. With hindsight of course......
Do you think you have eneded up spending more, or do you mean their values have risen and so made his quote more palatable?Have you kept a tally on the restoration costs, or is ignorance bliss?
Yes, I have a pretty accurate tally of the costs so far and I can confirm ignorance would be bliss!
OK...let's bring this up to date.
Sadly and frustratingly, there hasn't been a lot of progress over the last two years, so the car looks roughly the same!
When I bought the car both the chassis plate and the body number plate were missing. Replacing these had never risen to the top of the 'to do' list, even though replacements were available from Amicale Facel. It was a series of exchanges on the Facel Facebook page that acted as a catalyst.
The original bonnet release catches were made from an alloy known in France as Zamak. This apparently becomes brittle with age and the Facel catches are now considered time expired. There have been a number of instances where these have failed. Thankfully, there are two of them which clasp a pin from each side, which means you stand a chance of the bonnet not flying open when on the move. Amicale have now replicated the original catches in brass, which should alleviate the issue.
Having read all this I thought it prudent to purchase some new catches and it was the ideal opportunity to obtain the chassis and body plates at the same time. The plates now require punching and fitting to the car. The brass catch blanks need finishing and will be fitted in due course.
At the end of the year the driver's door decided to stop closing and so it was stripped down (again) to find the fault. One of the springs in the locking mechanism had given up the ghost...an easy repair. At the same time there was a concerted effort to get the car running again, which led to the discovery that there was no spark. Yet another coil (the last one had done zero miles and was fitted in 2018) and a set of plugs later and the car was running again.
The problem was then that the car sat for another four months before any more work was carried out. At this point the fuel sender which had been painstakingly brought back to life earlier in the restoration went awol. When it was removed, it became apparent that the electrical part of the unit had simply disintegrated. This was disheartening because some time and effort had been put into making the low fuel warning light work. The original sender had three connections, including one for the warning light. The only available replacements have two connections, as they are made to work with a number of Peugeot and Renault models as well. So a two connector one was duly ordered.
At the same time the fuel sender stopped working, the rev counter came out in sympathy. It had been fine, but now, even though the drive was working, the needle didn't move. The thought of sending this off to Speedy Cables filled me with apprehension. As I have mentioned before, they do a brilliant job, but the word 'speedy' tends to be lost in translation.
Sure enough, a phone call to them confirmed a lead time of 10 to 12 weeks, but up to 26 weeks if the numbers on the dial needed reworking. Speedy Cables were adamant that the numbers would need to be replaced. There was some justification for this, as if the numbers were touched during the rebuild, they would simply turn to dust.
To avoid a six month delay, I researched other companies that could carry out similar work. You can count them on one hand and still have digits to spare! To say this is specialised work is an understatement and Speedy Cables are to be applauded for the fact they provide this facility. No wonder lead times are so long.
No other company was prepared to take on the rebuild, but after a number of phone calls Speedy Cables agreed to repair the rev counter without refinishing the face, at my risk. Four months later it was returned, face unscathed.
It took another age for this to be fitted to the car at which point an attempt was made to start the car again. No spark and no fuel! A new fuel pump and a set of points were ordered.
In the meantime, the car was washed, only to find that there was a water leak on each side of the car. These have now been tracked down to the pin that acts as a hinge for the opening rear side windows. This requires taking the windows back out along with some of the stainless trim that surrounds them and then attempting to reseal the point where the pin passes into the bodywork. To be honest, this was probably a weak point when the cars were new, but it is still another barrier to getting the car finished.
So where are we now?
Well, we are currently waiting for the correct set of points that are on back order in America. Hopefully, the windows now keep the water out and a new fuel pump is in the car.
What little hair I still have is slowly being torn out, given the lack of progress. The issue is that the car is with the one person I trust to really know his way round these cars. There are other people, for sure, but it might be 'out of the frying pan, into the fire'. There is so little left to do, I keep thinking my best bet is to persevere with the car where it is, but it is fighting me every step of the way!
The one thing that is certain is I will get this finished!
Sadly and frustratingly, there hasn't been a lot of progress over the last two years, so the car looks roughly the same!
When I bought the car both the chassis plate and the body number plate were missing. Replacing these had never risen to the top of the 'to do' list, even though replacements were available from Amicale Facel. It was a series of exchanges on the Facel Facebook page that acted as a catalyst.
The original bonnet release catches were made from an alloy known in France as Zamak. This apparently becomes brittle with age and the Facel catches are now considered time expired. There have been a number of instances where these have failed. Thankfully, there are two of them which clasp a pin from each side, which means you stand a chance of the bonnet not flying open when on the move. Amicale have now replicated the original catches in brass, which should alleviate the issue.
Having read all this I thought it prudent to purchase some new catches and it was the ideal opportunity to obtain the chassis and body plates at the same time. The plates now require punching and fitting to the car. The brass catch blanks need finishing and will be fitted in due course.
At the end of the year the driver's door decided to stop closing and so it was stripped down (again) to find the fault. One of the springs in the locking mechanism had given up the ghost...an easy repair. At the same time there was a concerted effort to get the car running again, which led to the discovery that there was no spark. Yet another coil (the last one had done zero miles and was fitted in 2018) and a set of plugs later and the car was running again.
The problem was then that the car sat for another four months before any more work was carried out. At this point the fuel sender which had been painstakingly brought back to life earlier in the restoration went awol. When it was removed, it became apparent that the electrical part of the unit had simply disintegrated. This was disheartening because some time and effort had been put into making the low fuel warning light work. The original sender had three connections, including one for the warning light. The only available replacements have two connections, as they are made to work with a number of Peugeot and Renault models as well. So a two connector one was duly ordered.
At the same time the fuel sender stopped working, the rev counter came out in sympathy. It had been fine, but now, even though the drive was working, the needle didn't move. The thought of sending this off to Speedy Cables filled me with apprehension. As I have mentioned before, they do a brilliant job, but the word 'speedy' tends to be lost in translation.
Sure enough, a phone call to them confirmed a lead time of 10 to 12 weeks, but up to 26 weeks if the numbers on the dial needed reworking. Speedy Cables were adamant that the numbers would need to be replaced. There was some justification for this, as if the numbers were touched during the rebuild, they would simply turn to dust.
To avoid a six month delay, I researched other companies that could carry out similar work. You can count them on one hand and still have digits to spare! To say this is specialised work is an understatement and Speedy Cables are to be applauded for the fact they provide this facility. No wonder lead times are so long.
No other company was prepared to take on the rebuild, but after a number of phone calls Speedy Cables agreed to repair the rev counter without refinishing the face, at my risk. Four months later it was returned, face unscathed.
It took another age for this to be fitted to the car at which point an attempt was made to start the car again. No spark and no fuel! A new fuel pump and a set of points were ordered.
In the meantime, the car was washed, only to find that there was a water leak on each side of the car. These have now been tracked down to the pin that acts as a hinge for the opening rear side windows. This requires taking the windows back out along with some of the stainless trim that surrounds them and then attempting to reseal the point where the pin passes into the bodywork. To be honest, this was probably a weak point when the cars were new, but it is still another barrier to getting the car finished.
So where are we now?
Well, we are currently waiting for the correct set of points that are on back order in America. Hopefully, the windows now keep the water out and a new fuel pump is in the car.
What little hair I still have is slowly being torn out, given the lack of progress.
The issue is that the car is with the one person I trust to really know his way round these cars. There are other people, for sure, but it might be 'out of the frying pan, into the fire'. There is so little left to do, I keep thinking my best bet is to persevere with the car where it is, but it is fighting me every step of the way!The one thing that is certain is I will get this finished!
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