Westfield v6

[Dan Juan]

sdh2903 said:

Thanks Danjuan for the comprehensive info.

To answer a few points.

1. On my list to do.
2. Will do, although the coils are new ish and were working on the previous engine that was installed, swapping coils around has no effect.
3. Injectors again are les than 2k old and removed from working engine, even in #1 that im pretty certain isnt firing is getting fuel as you can see the vapour on the pre-start squirt. The one thing that i do need to check first is the injector wiring, this is the only part of the loom that needed to be extended so I need to double check the wiring is correct.
4. Brand new engine, but will do a test to confirm.
5. Have one, just wanted to at least get it running on all 6 before attempting to balance
6. wideband but only on 1 bank.
7. The link cable is good at present, the tiniest of inputs on the 'master' bank is replicated perfectly on the 'slave' The tps is indeed on the end of the 'slave' bank and has been re-calibrated.

12. no space for a rigid arm assembly. This link setup is a jenvey item and i know a few people running it very successfully.

13. Thats my plan, ideally i wanted it driveable, but at least need to make sure its running on all 6 first. My mapper is very helpful and is going to remote connect to the car next week to see if he can see anything untoward, hes done this with me in the past where ive been driving whilst hes been tweaking to ensure i have a safe map to do running in or to get it to the dyno.

Emerald have given me a list of things to do/check aswell so i will work through them, they arent convinced its sensor related, especially not the cam sensor as it should still run well enough with cam sensor disconnected, just not sequential, and disconnecting the sensor has no effect at all at present.

OK sounds like you are on top of it all - heck injector and spark plug function one by one. Are you wasted spark? Sequential injection? That probs makes the fuelling or timing of injection less critical. have you checked that your igintin advance is what you think it is?
Also I would use synchrometer as I think it gives same answer regardless of whether that cylinder had combustion or not. The flowrate is set by the suction stroke with inlet valves open so is agnostic of the bang part of the cycle I think.
Looking forward to seeing/hearing it singing nicely!
Dan

[sdh2903]

Dan Juan said:

OK sounds like you are on top of it all - heck injector and spark plug function one by one. Are you wasted spark? Sequential injection? That probs makes the fuelling or timing of injection less critical. have you checked that your igintin advance is what you think it is?

Yes I'm running fully sequential.

As a slight non-commital update, I had convinced myself it was likely something to do with the fact I had rewired the injectors due the location change on the ITBs, however on carrying out the wiring checks these were all correct. I did make the discovery though that the connectors i've used on all 6 injectors and on 3 coils are utter ste (my usual supplier were out of stock), the pins were moving around a lot in the connector housing and a couple of the retaining levers inside had broken allowing pins to push back very easily. So having not found anything mechanically wrong I strongly suspect this is the root of my issue. New connectors are on order. Just struggling to get time to tinker as its half term up here, shame as the weather has been great

[sdh2903]

Finally some progress. These pesky kids being on holiday doesn't half damage the garage time.

So as previous the connectors I'd used on half the coils and all injectors were st. So I replaced all 12 with better quality ones. Also during fault finding I noted the cam sensor connector, whilst the right shape it wasn't the right depth so the lock wasn't engaging. Don't think it was causing my issue but it would have down the road, so a good spot. Thats now been replaced aswell.

So gave it a try today and it fired straight up without any throttle input to a decent idle



Got them balanced up nicely and gave the idle fuelling a little tweak.



Sounds lovely. Have messaged my mapping chap to see when he can fit me in on the Dyno. He was hopeful it wouldn't take long and would fit me in around other jobs so hopefully won't be too long. In the mean time I've just a few bits of body work to refit and will get out and put some running in miles on it this week.

Edited by sdh2903 on Monday 17th April 18:26

[shalmaneser]

Looks and sounds magnificent! Is that the temp sensor on the backplate? Possible issues with heat soak? Fascinated to see what it makes at the dyno vs the standard throttle. Only half the story of course, the response will be better I'm sure.

[sdh2903]

shalmaneser said:

Looks and sounds magnificent! Is that the temp sensor on the backplate? Possible issues with heat soak? Fascinated to see what it makes at the dyno vs the standard throttle. Only half the story of course, the response will be better I'm sure.

Yes it's the intake air temp sensor. Am not sure really where else it could have gone, heatsoak in general is a concern with this setup I think. Its going to have to be one of those try and see things. I know how the IAT looked with the old setup when static and moving so will keep an eye on it.

Dyno will be interesting. I'm a bit gutted not to be doing a true back to back with the same engine to see just how the figures compare. Am not expecting big gains, in fact with shortening the inlet tracts am probably expecting a small drop in torque if anything. As you say the itb conversion was more about the throttle response, character and the noise more than anything.

Dyno is now booked for the 2nd may so not long to wait.

[shalmaneser]

I guess an interesting aspect is that you can easily adjust the length of the runner by adding 3d printed bell mouths to fiddle with the tuning of these, within the constraints of bonnet clearance.

Totally understand the requirement for lovely induction noises!

[sdh2903]

Was hopefully going to get out for a shakedown run today. But anything off idle and it's not happy. Running way too lean, only to be expected I guess with the TB's slurping in more air. I'm not clever enough to enrich the whole map but my mapper chap is going to remote connect over TeamViewer and do some tweaks to get it safely driveable.

In the mean time it was about time for a scrub to remove 6 months of garage dust.





Nice to have it all back together. Ignore the temp breather arrangement. Just waiting on some plumbing to arrive to get ilthe catch can plumbed in.



Ref the above image. I've never been happy with the air filter weird off grey/brown colour. There's been an unnecessary amount of emails bouncing backwards and forwards between me, the supplier and the manufacturer. Finally this week a solution was sorted and a new black foamed filter is in work but due lead times it's 5 or 6 weeks (but at least I get to keep this one)

Also have a carbon chin spoiler that I'd forgotten about to fit. Although am not 100% sold on the looks of it. I think I need to double sided tape it on to get a proper look before committing and drilling anything.

[sdh2903]

As the bonnet scoop is now actually being used as an intake, I have opened it up a little.

Before

|https://thumbsnap.com/kmeUA1gG[/url]

And after





Can also just see the clearance with the bonnet to see just how tight I am on space.



Will now get a template made up for the scoop hole and I'm going to get a grille 3d printed for it in the same hexagonal mesh style as the main nose grille.

Remote map tweaking later on. Will be good to get out again before the Scottish summer finishes in about 2 weeks![url]

[wrayvon]

I can certainly relate to the engine(or in your case, filter) being close to the bonnet!

If you decide you don't want that carbon front lip, do let me know please

[sdh2903]

wrayvon said:

I can certainly relate to the engine(or in your case, filter) being close to the bonnet!

If you decide you don't want that carbon front lip, do let me know please

Will do.

Shouldn't really complain, trying to fit a big daft engine in a small toy car

The mapping bloke did his stuff remotely this afternoon and it's now driveable, far from perfect, but safe enough for some shakedown miles before Dyno next week. I'm on an rpm curfew until then but better safe than sorry.

Couple of things from the test drive, the inlet air temp sensor readings do build when stationary as you'd expect but drop very quickly when moving, very similar to the previous intake so I think will be ok. Secondly the laminova is working, it's not been worked hard yet obviously but oil temps definitely lower.

[B'stard Child]

sdh2903 said:

So it seems like ive been treading water a bit of late, but things have started to come together a bit in the past week.

Firstly the altered coolant pipe arrived back and after a coat of paint, fitted up and the coolant refilled and bled. Pipework routing isnt perfect and not as neat as i'd like but will do for now while i see what effect the laminova has.

Will be very interested in feedback on this - especially seeing as it's such a compact unit

I assume it also aids heat up of the oil as well?

[sdh2903]

B'stard Child said:

Will be very interested in feedback on this - especially seeing as it's such a compact unit

I assume it also aids heat up of the oil as well?

Yes it does warm up quicker. This one is the middle sized one which is allegedly equivalent to a 16 row air/oil cooler. Problems were at sustained higher rpms when cruising the oil temps would be climbing north of 120 and due to the new better rad the coolant would be 30/40 degrees less. Hoping the laminova should even things up a bit. Will be interesting to see how it works in reality and with some higher ambient temps too.

[sdh2903]

Bit random I know. But I have a surplus engine in the garage that's getting in the way. It was running on removal but haven't opened it up. Its basically the bottom end minus the sump and pickup (but I do have a cheap new sump on eBay) plus the heads. There's a set of cam covers slaved on but need seals and bolts. Timing chain cover is fitted but has been modded with the alternator mount flange trimmed.

If anyone wants it or can make use of it it's free to collect from near Glasgow. Or I can pallet it up if someone really wants to arrange shipping.

Very much for spares or repair or turning into a coffee table.

Probably worth something in bits but eBayers are exhausting.

Edited by sdh2903 on Tuesday 25th April 16:54

[sdh2903]

Have managed to put some miles on the car over the past few days. The new clutch specified it required 2-300 miles bedding in before any dyno work and I'm just about there. Speaking of the clutch, with it being a semi-paddle plate I was a bit apprehensive on how it drove but it's great. A bit lighter than the competition clutch it replaced and a bit more progressive too. I did need to adjust the pedal throw a touch as it was a bit different to the old clutch.

Other winter work is all working well. The heated seats are superb now they are wired properly. Was a bit nippy at 5 degrees over the hills yesterday but was very snug. The diff seal has cured the weep from the input pinion and the replacement gearbox is slick and leak free.

The laminova is also working exactly as I'd hoped too. Previously consistent 70ish mph would see oil temps up at 120 and climbing with coolant down in the 80s. Now under same conditions oil stays at 100-105 and coolant is low 90s.

I did have a slight coolant weep that I initially thought was the return of my rad woes but was just the bottom hose needed a nip up as is usually the case with silicon hoses. And one of the oil hose connections on the laminova is sweating a bit despite a good nip up. I also seem to have gained a slight pull to the right under heavy braking. I have a new set of ds2500 pads to go in so will have to have a look over the front right caliper.

I did take a very small vid. Still taking it relatively easy of course

[Justin S]

Sounds fantastic Steve. So much more character than a 4 pot.

[MTW]

Sounds great!

[Peanut Gallery]

Sounds brilliant! Longer vid please, after you've run it in!

The old engine you have is tempting, but I shouldn't put the cart before the horse!

Sorry the weather has been pants this last week, hope it improves!

[b14]

sdh2903 said:

I also seem to have gained a slight pull to the right under heavy braking. I have a new set of ds2500 pads to go in so will have to have a look over the front right caliper.

If it's pulling to the right might want to check the front left?

Amazing build and great skills, thank you for taking the time to write it up in such detail.

[sdh2903]

Well in 10 years of kit ownership I had my first breakdown that I couldn't fix by the road without any assistance. And it was very nearly a terminal issue. I had just pulled up to a roundabout on a busy A road and clouds of smoke from under the bonnet. Managed to bail off to the side and kill it just as the oil pressure alarm went nuts.

One of the mocal push fit hoses to the laminova had popped off emptying the oil over the engine bay. I was pissed off that it happened, but grateful where it did and I could kill it instantly. Could also have been a lot worse if the oil had gone straight onto a hot manifold.

Luckily I was only 10 mins from home so I'd got my eldest daughter organised with some oil and a box of jubilees to get me home, when a very kind AA man pulled over and fitted me a jubilee clip just as the daughter arrived with oil. So was back up and running asap. I reckon it only ran with minimal oil pressure for 5 seconds max so am hopeful I've avoided any long term damage. After refilling with oil it sounded normal so it's just fingers crossed how it goes.

Have completely lost faith in the mocal hoses and push fit hardware. Have double jubilee clipped all the hose ends for now whilst I get some replacements sorted.

[Yazza54]

sdh2903 said:

Have managed to put some miles on the car over the past few days. The new clutch specified it required 2-300 miles bedding in before any dyno work and I'm just about there. Speaking of the clutch, with it being a semi-paddle plate I was a bit apprehensive on how it drove but it's great. A bit lighter than the competition clutch it replaced and a bit more progressive too. I did need to adjust the pedal throw a touch as it was a bit different to the old clutch.

Other winter work is all working well. The heated seats are superb now they are wired properly. Was a bit nippy at 5 degrees over the hills yesterday but was very snug. The diff seal has cured the weep from the input pinion and the replacement gearbox is slick and leak free.

The laminova is also working exactly as I'd hoped too. Previously consistent 70ish mph would see oil temps up at 120 and climbing with coolant down in the 80s. Now under same conditions oil stays at 100-105 and coolant is low 90s.

I did have a slight coolant weep that I initially thought was the return of my rad woes but was just the bottom hose needed a nip up as is usually the case with silicon hoses. And one of the oil hose connections on the laminova is sweating a bit despite a good nip up. I also seem to have gained a slight pull to the right under heavy braking. I have a new set of ds2500 pads to go in so will have to have a look over the front right caliper.

I did take a very small vid. Still taking it relatively easy of course

The only downside of heat exchangers like that laminova is they do dump heat from the oil into the water ... Hopefully as the weather get hotter you don't end up marginal on your water temps especially when driving more spiritedly. If that does happen you'll end up hot on both oil and water and may need a bigger rad.

I went through all this on my race car and ended up getting rid of the heat exchanger and just improving both systems independently.

Cruising at a steady speed is not an adequate test of a cooling system.

Edited by Yazza54 on Tuesday 2nd May 08:46