Discussion
Yazza54 said:
The only downside of heat exchangers like that laminova is they do dump heat from the oil into the water ... Hopefully as the weather get hotter you don't end up marginal on your water temps especially when driving more spiritedly. If that does happen you'll end up hot on both oil and water and may need a bigger rad.
I went through all this on my race car and ended up getting rid of the heat exchanger and just improving both systems independently.
Cruising at a steady speed is not an adequate test of a cooling system.
I get your point. But as this is predominantly a road car I've approached the problem to fix the main problem I had. Blasting along A roads and b roads wasn't too much of an issue. It was only continued fastcruising rpms that saw oil temps increasing to levels I wasn't happy with. I went through all this on my race car and ended up getting rid of the heat exchanger and just improving both systems independently.
Cruising at a steady speed is not an adequate test of a cooling system.
Edited by Yazza54 on Tuesday 2nd May 08:46
Since the new, improved (and enlarged) rad was installed I've had loads of headway on the coolant side. Yes the exchanger will reduce that headway but has drastically improved the oil temp issue. As you correctly say high ambient temps will be the acid test. I do have the radiator ducting to reinstall should it be required to improve radiator airflow further.
If it were a race car I would almost definitely have just fitted an air/oil cooler instead.
Edited by sdh2903 on Tuesday 2nd May 19:16
Dyno day at last.
Even jubilee'd up I was still fretting over the oil hoses but didn't want to lose my appointment as the mapping chap is busy busy. A rush hour slog around paisley out to East Kilbride to avoid the m8 carpark had me there nice and early.
Chris did his thing and the car is now running sweetly. Throttle response is excellent and pickup anything above 1500 rpms is superb.
Headline figures of 234bhp and 282nm at the hubs (hub pack Dyno) were achieved. This is an increase of 24bhp and a small loss of 2nm since my last session. The loss on the torque figure was expected due to the reduced runner lengths and I was pleasantly surprised it wasn't more. At 6500 rpms the power started picking up again and we did discuss raising the rev limit a bit but I decided 7100 was enough. Chris felt there was definitely more in it should I do the mods to achieve it safely in future.
We also played around with the vvt settings as this version of the engine has a different actuation compared to the old one. In the end the old settings worked best still, iirc on at 2500 off at 6000, changing the switch points could dent the torque by 30+nm.
All in all very happy. I've ordered the bits to make up some new oil hoses to ditch the push fits and then hopefully it will just be a case of putting miles on it over the summer.
Even jubilee'd up I was still fretting over the oil hoses but didn't want to lose my appointment as the mapping chap is busy busy. A rush hour slog around paisley out to East Kilbride to avoid the m8 carpark had me there nice and early.
Chris did his thing and the car is now running sweetly. Throttle response is excellent and pickup anything above 1500 rpms is superb.
Headline figures of 234bhp and 282nm at the hubs (hub pack Dyno) were achieved. This is an increase of 24bhp and a small loss of 2nm since my last session. The loss on the torque figure was expected due to the reduced runner lengths and I was pleasantly surprised it wasn't more. At 6500 rpms the power started picking up again and we did discuss raising the rev limit a bit but I decided 7100 was enough. Chris felt there was definitely more in it should I do the mods to achieve it safely in future.
We also played around with the vvt settings as this version of the engine has a different actuation compared to the old one. In the end the old settings worked best still, iirc on at 2500 off at 6000, changing the switch points could dent the torque by 30+nm.
All in all very happy. I've ordered the bits to make up some new oil hoses to ditch the push fits and then hopefully it will just be a case of putting miles on it over the summer.
Edited by sdh2903 on Tuesday 2nd May 19:38
That sounds both musical and, for the style of car, unexpected! It's been a great read, and shows how it's never quite as simple as you'd hope to go off the beaten track with engine choice.
It's great to see that all the various hiccups and hurdles have been overcome though, I bet it will be a be an absolute delight to drive.
It's great to see that all the various hiccups and hurdles have been overcome though, I bet it will be a be an absolute delight to drive.
I've been a bit crap in keeping this updated. Firstly after Dyno day the first priority was getting rid of the crap push fit oil hoses. These were replaced with teflon lined braided lines (what I should've used in the first place).
The unequal y piece finally arrived on the slow boat from China meaning I could get the catch can plumbed in. The plan was to not vent through the filter as previous engines have left a nasty vapour smell coming from the bonnet vent when stationary. However the new engine being much healthier doesn't breath any oil vapours so have left the filter on rather than taking back into the inlet.
Also as reported previously I had a slight pull right under heavy braking. I had new ds2500 pads to go in aswell so extended all the pistons out and sure enough I had some very reluctant pistons and all were marked. So replacement or rebuild req. I bought these used about 4 years ago so were probably due.
I deliberated hard on repair or replace. The APs are solid bits of kit however due to an exclusivity contract with Westfield some parts were not listed publicly, even though Westfield went bust a while back and the 'new' Westfield weren't stocking them. Disc availability is an issue aswell. I was quoted 12 week lead and 240 plus vat each! I didn't need discs as they are like new and I figure I'd just go for a custom 2 piece disc when the time comes, so once they decided they could let me have the part numbers a new set of pistons, seals, bleed screws and pad pins were ordered.
Seals were well past it.
There was some light corrosion in the seal lip but all cleaned off v easily. All back together and pistons gliding as they should. 1 piston on each caliper was pretty much seized. They do need a coat of paint now but that can wait til winter.
Since then, thankfully I've been putting miles on the car with *touch wood* no issues. Even managed to get the Mrs out in it for the first time for an evening run out.
My last mod on my list is to get these custom 3d printed grilles fitted to the bonnet. The pattern is to match the plastic mesh in the front of the nose cone and are courtesy of Paul at mofast.
The unequal y piece finally arrived on the slow boat from China meaning I could get the catch can plumbed in. The plan was to not vent through the filter as previous engines have left a nasty vapour smell coming from the bonnet vent when stationary. However the new engine being much healthier doesn't breath any oil vapours so have left the filter on rather than taking back into the inlet.
Also as reported previously I had a slight pull right under heavy braking. I had new ds2500 pads to go in aswell so extended all the pistons out and sure enough I had some very reluctant pistons and all were marked. So replacement or rebuild req. I bought these used about 4 years ago so were probably due.
I deliberated hard on repair or replace. The APs are solid bits of kit however due to an exclusivity contract with Westfield some parts were not listed publicly, even though Westfield went bust a while back and the 'new' Westfield weren't stocking them. Disc availability is an issue aswell. I was quoted 12 week lead and 240 plus vat each! I didn't need discs as they are like new and I figure I'd just go for a custom 2 piece disc when the time comes, so once they decided they could let me have the part numbers a new set of pistons, seals, bleed screws and pad pins were ordered.
Seals were well past it.
There was some light corrosion in the seal lip but all cleaned off v easily. All back together and pistons gliding as they should. 1 piston on each caliper was pretty much seized. They do need a coat of paint now but that can wait til winter.
Since then, thankfully I've been putting miles on the car with *touch wood* no issues. Even managed to get the Mrs out in it for the first time for an evening run out.
My last mod on my list is to get these custom 3d printed grilles fitted to the bonnet. The pattern is to match the plastic mesh in the front of the nose cone and are courtesy of Paul at mofast.
sdh2903 said:
Also as reported previously I had a slight pull right under heavy braking. I had new ds2500 pads to go in aswell so extended all the pistons out and sure enough I had some very reluctant pistons and all were marked. So replacement or rebuild req. I bought these used about 4 years ago so were probably due.
I deliberated hard on repair or replace. The APs are solid bits of kit however due to an exclusivity contract with Westfield some parts were not listed publicly, even though Westfield went bust a while back and the 'new' Westfield weren't stocking them. Disc availability is an issue aswell. I was quoted 12 week lead and 240 plus vat each! I didn't need discs as they are like new and I figure I'd just go for a custom 2 piece disc when the time comes, so once they decided they could let me have the part numbers a new set of pistons, seals, bleed screws and pad pins were ordered.
Seals were well past it.
There was some light corrosion in the seal lip but all cleaned off v easily. All back together and pistons gliding as they should. 1 piston on each caliper was pretty much seized. They do need a coat of paint now but that can wait til winter.
I've got similar AP 4 pots on the Lotus (no dust/rain seals means the hydraulic seal has a hard time - also the mild steel pistons corrode quite quickly when pads wear down and the surfaces are exposed so I replaced mine with stainless steel (not from AP)I deliberated hard on repair or replace. The APs are solid bits of kit however due to an exclusivity contract with Westfield some parts were not listed publicly, even though Westfield went bust a while back and the 'new' Westfield weren't stocking them. Disc availability is an issue aswell. I was quoted 12 week lead and 240 plus vat each! I didn't need discs as they are like new and I figure I'd just go for a custom 2 piece disc when the time comes, so once they decided they could let me have the part numbers a new set of pistons, seals, bleed screws and pad pins were ordered.
Seals were well past it.
There was some light corrosion in the seal lip but all cleaned off v easily. All back together and pistons gliding as they should. 1 piston on each caliper was pretty much seized. They do need a coat of paint now but that can wait til winter.
Been in since 2014 without issues so a worthwhile upgrade
B'stard Child said:
I've got similar AP 4 pots on the Lotus (no dust/rain seals means the hydraulic seal has a hard time - also the mild steel pistons corrode quite quickly when pads wear down and the surfaces are exposed so I replaced mine with stainless steel (not from AP)
Been in since 2014 without issues so a worthwhile upgrade
Agreed. Which is one of the reasons why I gave the dust-sealed midilites a look. Interesting on the none ap pistons I might have to look at that for future. I think these are anodised alloy. I will certainly pay more attention to them on the usual winter layup in future.Been in since 2014 without issues so a worthwhile upgrade
Last weekend was lucky enough to have the car up in the Highlands for the weekend. 12 or so other cars including westies, a tiger, a caterham 620r, Elise cup 220 an mx5 and an f type were converging up in gairloch.
On the way up I met up with another lad up from the central belt. We headed up early Friday up the a82, then detoured over applecross then up round the coast to shieldaig then on to gairloch to the campsite. Was an absolutely glorious day although I'll whisper this, a bit too hot in a westy along slowish single track roads.
Saturday saw a 250 ish mile loop run up towards durness, over kylesku and then to lairg for lunch. On to Bonar bridge, over the struie road, dingwall, strathpeffer and back towards gairloch. Some of the lads were locals and gave us some superb roads. Temps were a couple degrees lower which made things a lot more comfortable.
Sunday saw us head out separate ways home. Me and my running mate headed over to Inverness, Culloden, then down over the lecht, lunch at braemar then over glenshee and we split to head for home. Another stonking day with superb weather.
All in all an absolutely brilliant weekend, great company and great driving. Nearly 800 miles in the 3 days with not a spot of rain encountered.
The car, well with all the little niggles I've had over the past few months I was a bit apprehensive being honest. But it was flawless. Temperature wise I can safely say the laminova is an excellent but of kit. Despite ambients of 28/29 degrees coolant temps were solid at low to mid 90s and oil never exceeded 110 despite some 'spirited' driving normally 103-105. Previously I would have been out of the game with oil temps in those ambients and harder driving.
On the way up I met up with another lad up from the central belt. We headed up early Friday up the a82, then detoured over applecross then up round the coast to shieldaig then on to gairloch to the campsite. Was an absolutely glorious day although I'll whisper this, a bit too hot in a westy along slowish single track roads.
Saturday saw a 250 ish mile loop run up towards durness, over kylesku and then to lairg for lunch. On to Bonar bridge, over the struie road, dingwall, strathpeffer and back towards gairloch. Some of the lads were locals and gave us some superb roads. Temps were a couple degrees lower which made things a lot more comfortable.
Sunday saw us head out separate ways home. Me and my running mate headed over to Inverness, Culloden, then down over the lecht, lunch at braemar then over glenshee and we split to head for home. Another stonking day with superb weather.
All in all an absolutely brilliant weekend, great company and great driving. Nearly 800 miles in the 3 days with not a spot of rain encountered.
The car, well with all the little niggles I've had over the past few months I was a bit apprehensive being honest. But it was flawless. Temperature wise I can safely say the laminova is an excellent but of kit. Despite ambients of 28/29 degrees coolant temps were solid at low to mid 90s and oil never exceeded 110 despite some 'spirited' driving normally 103-105. Previously I would have been out of the game with oil temps in those ambients and harder driving.
Not much been happening with the westy, pitiful lack of use really due to life getting in the way.
It did pass it's first MOT though. Annoyingly I did need to change the track rod ends as the rubber boots had perished. Pretty crap for 3 years but I guess they are a bit more UV exposed. Which reminds me I must get the alignment checked.
Only other task was to try and sort the bloody fuel level sensor. Again. The readings would drop like a stone and be all over the shop. So tried a new (3rd) level sensor, this time another dip tube from veratron (but branded VDO). Better than the original vdo one I had as it's 2 pin so doesn't earth through the body which caused all sorts of issues with the aim dash. Anyway touch wood this seems to read fairly accurately and consistently. Still due to the shape of the tank I still have a dead spot at the bottom. So zero on the guage means I have 2 gallons left. So have just programmed the low warning to come on at zero giving me a warning range of 50 miles or so.
New one left, old one right. Think a reed switch had gone south as when I tested it there was a big dead spot on the old one.
Now the car has been pretty faultless (well apart from not knowing how much fuel it had) but ever since fitting the throttle bodies its had a bit of lumpy running low down the rev range and a few flat-ish spots. So I'd decided to nip back to the Dyno for some tweaks. This time after a couple of personal recommendations I went to a different place over in Dunfermline.
The guy there was incredibly knowledgeable and explained exactly what he was doing to work through the issues I was having.
Now after making me wince listening to the thing being thrashed I was given the keys and told to take it for a spin. Wow. What a difference. Now I wasn't looking for more power at all, it was just an exercise to improve driveability, but the midrange has really been woken up along with the lower rpm smoothness. It really has made such a difference.
It has highlighted that now I'm probably a little under-tyred at the rear. A particularly vigorous launch up round the roads near knockhill had it spinning up in 3rd in the warm and dry. Is a right giggle though
. Scores ended up at 254bhp and 214ftlb at the wheels. His conversion gave a flywheel figure of 293bhp and 245 torques (which may be a little optimistic but I'll take it )
He did mention though it may be worth thinking about an ECU upgrade at some point. He felt a more modern ECU could make things even better and add in a decent traction control setup too. One to look at over the winter, give me chance to get the capex through.
It did pass it's first MOT though. Annoyingly I did need to change the track rod ends as the rubber boots had perished. Pretty crap for 3 years but I guess they are a bit more UV exposed. Which reminds me I must get the alignment checked.
Only other task was to try and sort the bloody fuel level sensor. Again. The readings would drop like a stone and be all over the shop. So tried a new (3rd) level sensor, this time another dip tube from veratron (but branded VDO). Better than the original vdo one I had as it's 2 pin so doesn't earth through the body which caused all sorts of issues with the aim dash. Anyway touch wood this seems to read fairly accurately and consistently. Still due to the shape of the tank I still have a dead spot at the bottom. So zero on the guage means I have 2 gallons left. So have just programmed the low warning to come on at zero giving me a warning range of 50 miles or so.
New one left, old one right. Think a reed switch had gone south as when I tested it there was a big dead spot on the old one.
Now the car has been pretty faultless (well apart from not knowing how much fuel it had) but ever since fitting the throttle bodies its had a bit of lumpy running low down the rev range and a few flat-ish spots. So I'd decided to nip back to the Dyno for some tweaks. This time after a couple of personal recommendations I went to a different place over in Dunfermline.
The guy there was incredibly knowledgeable and explained exactly what he was doing to work through the issues I was having.
Now after making me wince listening to the thing being thrashed I was given the keys and told to take it for a spin. Wow. What a difference. Now I wasn't looking for more power at all, it was just an exercise to improve driveability, but the midrange has really been woken up along with the lower rpm smoothness. It really has made such a difference.
It has highlighted that now I'm probably a little under-tyred at the rear. A particularly vigorous launch up round the roads near knockhill had it spinning up in 3rd in the warm and dry. Is a right giggle though
. Scores ended up at 254bhp and 214ftlb at the wheels. His conversion gave a flywheel figure of 293bhp and 245 torques (which may be a little optimistic but I'll take it )He did mention though it may be worth thinking about an ECU upgrade at some point. He felt a more modern ECU could make things even better and add in a decent traction control setup too. One to look at over the winter, give me chance to get the capex through.
Recently found this post, after missing it from the Westfield forums. Glad to see that it's on the road and working well!
I know the feeling about being under-tyred at the back. Not sure what sizes you're running, but Westfield supplied me 205-50 R15 tyres on an 8 inch rear wheel. Recently replaced them with 225-45 R15s and it's made a really noticeable difference. If I could sensibly find wider ones i'd probably give it a go.
I know the feeling about being under-tyred at the back. Not sure what sizes you're running, but Westfield supplied me 205-50 R15 tyres on an 8 inch rear wheel. Recently replaced them with 225-45 R15s and it's made a really noticeable difference. If I could sensibly find wider ones i'd probably give it a go.
Exitus said:
Recently found this post, after missing it from the Westfield forums. Glad to see that it's on the road and working well!
I know the feeling about being under-tyred at the back. Not sure what sizes you're running, but Westfield supplied me 205-50 R15 tyres on an 8 inch rear wheel. Recently replaced them with 225-45 R15s and it's made a really noticeable difference. If I could sensibly find wider ones i'd probably give it a go.
Good to hear from you. How is the sport 250 treating you? Still behaving?I know the feeling about being under-tyred at the back. Not sure what sizes you're running, but Westfield supplied me 205-50 R15 tyres on an 8 inch rear wheel. Recently replaced them with 225-45 R15s and it's made a really noticeable difference. If I could sensibly find wider ones i'd probably give it a go.
Well sadly this thread will now come to an end. Back on Friday 1st, just 2 days after getting it all dialled in I was involved in an accident up near tyndrum. I'll not go into too much detail as the claim is ongoing but a 3rd party was charged with careless driving at the scene.
Am pretty certain, as are my insurance (who've been hopeless) that it will be written off. The front corner has been ripped off, there's chassis damage and most of the body panels have been damaged. Luckily there were no injuries barring a bit of soreness and a few bruises. Car definitely came off worse.
Am pretty certain, as are my insurance (who've been hopeless) that it will be written off. The front corner has been ripped off, there's chassis damage and most of the body panels have been damaged. Luckily there were no injuries barring a bit of soreness and a few bruises. Car definitely came off worse.
t! Glad you're ok B'stard Child said:
Oh bugger - that’s not an ending I wanted to see…… 
Can you still a chassis for a westfield so it could be rebuilt around that??
The old Westfield certainly used to supply like for like chassis to rebuild damaged cars. I haven't made any enquiries with the new company yet as I was waiting for an initial assessment from the insurance company. Problem is cost. Everything at Westfield is now much more expensive, even a zetec kit is now 32k before any options. I reckon even just to buy the bits I could see it's north of 10k. We'll see what happens.Can you still a chassis for a westfield so it could be rebuilt around that??
sherbertdip said:
Oh no, I'm glad you came out relatively unscathed, but all that work, you must be gutted, rather than a new chassis Siltech Engineering could sort it for you, although I appreciate they are a long way from you.
Thank you. The way it unfolded I suspect the car has chassis damage at the rear too. I've used siltech in the past and are on the radar should a shopping spree be on the cards!sdh2903 said:
B'stard Child said:
Oh bugger - that’s not an ending I wanted to see……
Can you still a chassis for a westfield so it could be rebuilt around that??
The old Westfield certainly used to supply like for like chassis to rebuild damaged cars. I haven't made any enquiries with the new company yet as I was waiting for an initial assessment from the insurance company. Problem is cost. Everything at Westfield is now much more expensive, even a zetec kit is now 32k before any options. I reckon even just to buy the bits I could see it's north of 10k. We'll see what happens.Can you still a chassis for a westfield so it could be rebuilt around that??
tr7v8 said:
I rebuilt a very early SEiW which had been crashed on track. I bought a pile of bits & the chassis is 2 bits. Westfield welded on a new front end from the frpnt of the pedal box forward, This was around 2002 I think, they charged me £660 and it took a week. I bought some new ali panels & a few other bits. Most of the body was rebuildable.
The good old days when Westfield actually did all that stuff in house.Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff