Westfield v6

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sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Wednesday 11th January 2023
quotequote all
Another expense that was much larger due to the V engine was the exhaust. The 2 cans alone were around 1k at the time, i had to keep waiting for Westfield to have one of their discount sales before buying. This was at least offset somewhat by the use of the cheap headers.

So all mocked up and some big holes drilled in the tub.







Whilst they were away getting welded i got the rest of the metal work finished, tunnel tops and interior panels, including the small covers for the scuttle bolts which can be a common iva fail point.







And a small panel for some switches under the dash.



Exhausts back and polished up



The westfield exhaust mounts are renowned for snapping, they are effectively 2 studs bonded to a rubber mount which just pulls itself apart. Why they never changed it i dont know, i just lop the studs off and drill through the block using a nut and bolt through.



All fitted up



And the wideband fitted, went for a spartan in the end, feeds directly into the ECU and then via canbus to the dash.



Edited by sdh2903 on Wednesday 11th January 10:14

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Wednesday 11th January 2023
quotequote all
So by this point we were about a year in and at mid 2019. Bit of a mid build lull, needing funds, waiting on parts and lacking a bit of enthusiasm.

By this point another builder had overtaken me with his engine swap and sent me his dyno figures for some motivation biggrin



Time to crack on then! Started on the dash, mocked up in cardboard and then transferred into carbon. I wanted this profile, which is known as the contoured dash, to give maximum visibility for the dash display.





I know the toggle switches are a bit old hat, however they are still easily reached for and operated even wearing gloves. Not as old hat as the rover metro electric mirror switch biggrin, yes i went for the electric version of the standard westfield mirrors. The standard ones only need a slight knock to move them and its really infurating if youve just strapped in and then you need to adjust the nearside mirror.



Edited by sdh2903 on Wednesday 11th January 10:31

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Wednesday 11th January 2023
quotequote all
Regarding inlets, I had been working on a custom inlet plenum, i won't bore you with the details as i never ended up using it, id used the wrong gauge aluminium for some of the bits and it was just a potential minefield of airleaks. This was how it ended up.



So in the end i went with the method of using a ford inlet from the mondeo st200 v6. This fits via adapter plates to the standard jag lower manifold. Unfortunately i had the wrong version of lower manifold so needed to source one.



The mondeo inlet sat on, fugly thing.



Made up some adapters, done with an angle grinder and hole saws, not a fun day (and why they look a bit well rough)





Standard st200 TB is 60 mm, a few other had used either a later st220 TB or had this one bored to match, so I sent the TB to be rebored and a new butterfly fitted to take it to 65mm. In hindsight i dont think it would have been detrimental to keep this at 60mm.



So then all the unneccessary ports and iacv ducts were lopped off the inlet ready for welding up.



Welded up, and a nice inlet elbow made up with ports for breather and Intake air temp sensor.





All powdercoated up and fitted




sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Wednesday 11th January 2023
quotequote all
So id run out of excuses and was time to stick some power on and see what happened. firstly id made up the temporary switch panel that fits under the dash. This housed all the wirelessly controlled items controlled by the freewheel, indicators, wipers, horn, main beam control, windscreen wash etc. I had done this as i needed to use the IVA friendly padded steering wheel to get through the test, plus i didnt want any eyebrows raised at IVA for the wireless controls.



Power goes on.



So start adding fuses one by one and each system tested. Few issues arise at this point

1. Heater is only working at 1 speed. I did think this might be the case when wiring.

2. Handbrake warning is blowing the fuse. Having looked at this I know why as it's the way I wanted to use the warning on the dash theres no load on it and is shorting. I may fit a resistor or just fit a light on the dash and not bother with the dash warning (or have both)

3. Headlights not working. No clue on this one yet.

One system i was worried about was the hazards but they are working perfectly.

Firstly took a look at the headlight issue. I had the high beam flash working via the freewheel but no dipped beam. After going back through the system I found some stuff i dont remember even doing and even more puzzling as to why. I'd bizarrely fitted an extra relay just to provide power to the headlight switch :blush: and it had it's own fused feed which I hadnt written down in my fuse list so didn't have a fuse in.confused

Wacked a fuse in and hit the switch and they worked. Well sort of. I had the main and dipped the wrong way round. I did contemplate switching the pins at the headlight connectors but then that meant the colours would have been wrong, and could have potentially caused issues for me or any poor soul troubleshooting in future. So I went back into the fuse box and swapped them round. I also removed the unnecessary relay to just leave the 2 required for the freewheel.

Heater speeds. This was a nice easy one. I swapped the low and high speeds around on the switch and it works as it should, although I'm still not sure why as the voltages are the same.

All the other remaining car circuits were now powered up and tested and all is good. The freewheel is doing a grand job, With regards to the wipers, thanks to another wscc member for pioneering the spec as i now have some nice 'normal' car touches. Single flick wipe, 2 speed wipe and also when pressing the screenwash it automatically powers up the wipers for 3 sweeps.

Sorted the handbrake wiring with adding a resistor to the circuit.

At this point encountered a new issue. When turning the ignition on the aim dash would freeze on power up. Spoke to AIM who suggested pressing side buttons whilst powering, this worked but then a few attempts later it froze and nothing would sort it. Tried a firmware update but no joy. So at their request it was sent back to AIM.

It came back with a clean bill of health, but still the problem remained. It was only by chance I was speaking to emerald about an unrelated issue and they had vaguely remebered a similar issue they had on a lotus using an AIM dash. Turns out the ECU was sending its information via CAN too quickly and was locking up the dash during its boot up phase. They remotely connected into my ecu by wifi and introduced a time delay in the CAN data transmission, this sorted it instantly. Bloody electrics.

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Wednesday 11th January 2023
quotequote all
shalmaneser said:
regarding the wideband; are you just sampling a single bank? Sorry about the detailed questions I'm looking at fitting an ECU to a similar engine.
Not at all fire away.

Yes currently im sampling only one bank, if you want dual lambda then you need the k6+ ecu which i believe is the only one they supply now anyway. When the car is on the dyno i have a port in the other bank which he has a sensor in and he crosschecks between his and mine and they are usually very very close.

Its something i've thought about upgrading to but not done as yet.

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
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Krikkit said:
Great result getting that sorted, Emerald really are impressive for their service, I've heard this before (in particular when AIM wouldn't/couldn't help).
They are indeed, even if its not strictly their issue, Emerald will go to the extra effort to get you sorted, AIM on the otherhand, are very tricky to get hold of and deal with at times.

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
Justin S said:
Hi Steve, other than imminent grandfather hood , nothing car wise. Having seen how much prams are............. cars are cheaper...... I have plans but not the money to live those plans............... something soon hopefully.........
Haha yes babies are loads more expensive to run these days biggrin, at least you can give the grandkids back wink

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
So next was to turn the engine over with the plugs out to try and see if the old girl had any oil pressure, turned the key, and nothing, starter solenoid clicks, have good battery, but no rotation. scratchchin. Took the starter out and it worked fine out of the car. Tried turning the engine over manually on the crank pulley and it was stuck solid. Turned out to be the teeth of the flywheel jammed against the gearbox casing. The rocketeer instructions state to put a chamfer on the inside lip of the box, which i did, but clearly not enough, so it was engine out, angry grind the lip to clear and refit, again.










So then onto start attempt #1.

Fuel in. No leaks. Good start.

Firstly had a little niggle with the fuel pump not priming. Just a pin not quite fully seated in the relay holder. Went over every other pin while I was at it. Didn't find any others. Set the fuel pressure up on the regulator. And then went for it. Turning over and the ECU light went green but no joy.

Checked through the ECU settings and noticed the ignition was set to a distributor rather than distributorless. Changed the setting and with fingers crossed went again.

Still no noise (well not the right noise), Was getting some funny noises coming from the starter. Like the starter was engaging/disengaging but not turning over. Suspect the jammimng flywheel had maybe tipped the old donor starter motor over the edge. So a new one ordered and battery back on charge for another day.



sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
So with new starter fitted, went for another attempt.

https://youtu.be/D2705qYDwP8

She runs! lumpy and rich but still it runs.

Doing more digging I noticed on the ecu page it wsas obviously seeing the crank sensor input, but nothing from the cam sensor, so it wasnt running sequentially. Checked the sensor settings and it was set to single tooth, and the jag cam is a 4 tooth. Changed that and went again. Now still idling way too high (this was an an IACV issue) but it was much much smoother.

https://youtube.com/shorts/zp4EUTelPS8?feature=sha...

At his point i started to trim the fuel out of the map, It was horrendously rich and the plugs were fouling pretty quick, I know base maps are generically rich but this was really bad, at one point I could def smell fuel in the oil. I took around 30% out of the fuelling map and it was still a little on the rich side but ok. Oil was changed as a precaution. The IACV was also removed, i dont know if it was a quirk of the setup or the valve itself but a minute adjustment would cause a massive difference in RPM. I found the ecu could cope without the iacv in the end just fine.

I could also still detect a very slight misfire and a bit of hunting at times, so went for a new set of coils andfitted some thicker cork nitrile gaskets under the inlet.



Much better now. This start below is a cold start, no iacv or throttle pedal input.

https://youtube.com/shorts/hLOVH_7QAaA?feature=sha...


sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
Now i was happy the engine ran I could crack on with other stuff.

I had always wanted a set of tillet b6, one of the traders over on the WSCC is a dealer for tillet so sent me one to try, beautifully made seats, however my child bearing hips wouldnt fit. frown So ended up ordering some slightly wider JK composite seats. It wasnt the end of the world as I already knew the JK's were fine as id used them in both my previous builds.



Had a stroke of luck in that another Sport 250 owner was converting his car from road to a more sprint/track setup so managed to get a hold of a sport 250 screen and sidescreens at about half the retail price and without the 3 month wait





I had noticed a few bits of discolouration on the carbon exhaust cans and on one it had started to delaminate, turns out this was an issue that wasn't in isolation, Westfield had a habit of switching parts suppliers on a regular basis, my previous can used on the 250 was flawless, yet these were not of an decent quality, After much wrangling and silly responses, they relented and replaced them, but they had to be the stainless versions. Shame, but hey ho.



front cycle wing stays and front ball joints were given a coat of paint.



side repeaters wired in



and wings fitted (Fasteners were temporary til black ones arrived)



And then the nose on (and black fasteners)



This brings us up to January 2020. I had a dyno slot booked for Feb and looking to start thinking about applying for an IVA test

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
Yes I fit really well , am 6ft 4 and around 17 stone. I've done 3-400 mile days no problem at all. There are a few things to take Into consideration. Seats being the main one. I cannot fit comfortably using the Westfield sport turbo padded seats, so I use GRP shell seats with thin padding which are surprisingly comfy. 2. The dropped floor pans help a lot. I think all the chassis post 2005 ish had them as standard as mine was earlier I had to make my own. 3. The sport 250 Windscreen is a good option if your tall as it's 50mm taller than a standard screen. Without the lowered pans and with a STD screen my eyeline is right in line with the top of the screen.

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
sherbertdip said:
Hi Steve. as a former WSCC member and owner of 3 cars including the beast - 5.1litre V8, I've always watched the build threads as never having the bottle to build my own. After all the work you put into the Sport 250 I was surprised when you put it up for sale, in fact a Sport 250 is one that I would like to own.

Coincidentally I now have a Morgan with the same engine you've put in this, and it's the same colour as your Westy.

Looking forward to more updates as I can't access the build threads on the forum.

Was known as Yanto on the forum.

Ian
Hi Ian. I'll bet the Morgan is a lovely thing.

I'm not so sure on the 250, well I'll say with a caveat it really depends on what ECU is used. I used the ready mapped package from ford racing. Great as it was effectively turnkey. However it dumped all the torque in down low (+an additional 80ftlb) which isn't ideal in such a light car. I had a real brown trouser ridden drive home from crianlarich caught in torrential rain on cold r888rs where breathing on the accelerator would see it sideways.

But then I've done a few runs out with another 250 this time with the SCS ECU. His is prob pushing 300bhp but has made a lot of effort to map the torque curve to suit the car which has made all the difference.

But then again with a 5.1 v8 am sure your used to all the torque biggrin

I could have invested another 2 or 3k in the car and switched ECU but things were looking a bit ropey at work at the time and a decent offer came in for it so decided to let it go.

Just my own humble opinion but for these type of cars I just feel they suit a revvy N/A more than a turbo engine.


Edited by sdh2903 on Thursday 12th January 22:37

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Friday 13th January 2023
quotequote all
For the boot area I'd bought a very cheap, very used boot box, wasnt really fussed on the condition as it was going to be cut to suit the MSA roll bar.



Then lopped 6 inches out of the middle to make it fit



And fibreglassed back up



And then some more CAD work



And transfer to carbon sheet



A few more body related bits sorted, the bonnet on the westfield only has catches at the rear and is held at the front by 2 locating pins which slide into the nose cone. So these were drilled.



And then onto the dreaded aerocatches for the rear, love these catches but due to the shape of the westfield bonnet you have to do some butchery to get them to fit. I did at this point have a bit of a cock up and broke through the bodywork where i wasnt meant to.







So needed to open up the blemish a little and mixed up some flowcoat to repair, this flatted back and polished up ok, there is a very slight colour difference but not enough to warrant a new bonnet.


sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Friday 13th January 2023
quotequote all
opened up the gills on the bonnet, only really needed the N/S as its where the air filter sits, but it looked a little odd so did both sides in the end.



then made a plywood former



And then pressed through some aluminium mesh





These were then removed and painted before being sikaflexed in.

The car then made its first journey outside as it was time to go for mapping.


sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Friday 13th January 2023
quotequote all
So mapping attempt #1. Good news and not so good news.

Firsdtly the engine survived which is always good taking an unknown lump to the limit for the first time. Everything was going OK, map was still way rich so that was trimmed out, a decent level of tune done throughout the range, and then played with the VVT, ended up with on at 2000 and off again at 6000 rpms, work done by other builders had found that if the vvt was left activated it dropped top end power. In the end the VVT gave 20ftlb through the midrange.

Headline figures at this point were 207bhp and 202ftlb at the hubs, as its a hub dyno, chris the mapper doesnt bother with guestimations of flywheel power but did say visiting a traditional rolling road would give s figure somewhere between 1.2 an 1.4 times the hub figure depending on how 'optimistic' the dyno was.

https://youtu.be/YAnWPdYAVSk

I wasn't too displeased with the figures but i did think it would be around 10% more and Chris felt it was being held back too. After a couple more power runs the car sounded poorly, a very distinct tick from the left hand bank and it just didnt want to idle at all, game over for the day.

So after getting the rough alignment sorted on the way home from the dyno i started to do some digging on the noise issue. Some pointed towards the VVT system, first up i re-did the compession test, the left bank was up at 230 and the right bank was at 190 psi (they'd previously been 190 across the board) Strange. Pulled the cam covers and all looked ok, no bucket shims had gone walkabout or broken up.

Only when i pulled the VVT solenoids was the problem revealed, the solenoid oilway has filter screens fitted, one of these had broken up, entered the solenoid and jammed it, so the Left bank had its VVT activated permanently.



Ironic really as the job of the screen is to stop this from happeningrolleyes simple fix, i just removed all the screens as on checking they were all starting to go brittle. This could also be the reason why the top end power was a little low. Before i could get it back together to see if it had cured the problem, i snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by dropping a (stainless) bolt straight down an open spark plug hole curse

Borrowed the borescope from work and thank god with a set of mechanical fingers managed to retrieve the bolt, with the added bonus it came out still wearing its washer! woohoo



On start up the ticking had gone!.

Another issue that arose during the alignment setup, the lower steering column was crap and needed re doing. It was hitting the manifold and id made the error of having the uj's out of phase. So I needed to redo the engine mount and fit a support.







Now much better, rock solid and more clearance.

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Sunday 15th January 2023
quotequote all
On with the final finishing touches now ready for IVA. Started on the interior panels, covered with vinyl.







Carpets cut and then dropped into the trimmers for binding





Stuff like this is where you can save big money on the build vs buying from the factory (when it was open), i reckon I saved around 70% on retail. I tried to stick to this plan throughout the build, save money in some areas to allow the nice upgraded parts in others.

Then it was time to get the IVA application in.


sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Sunday 15th January 2023
quotequote all
Finished off the boot box area, the boot 'lid' needed some strengthening to support the hinges.







Interior coming together, seats and harnesses in.





I heard back from DVSA and had an IVA date booked for 18th march 2020, great, only to hear a few days later that the tester was actually on leave so was pushed back to 14th April, then another phonecall to move back to 2nd April, and then another to move back to the original date but 1 hour later!! At this point according to the email I had 3 valid appointments booked as only one was showing as cancelled!

I was just glad to get in asap as it was now early march 2020 and the world was just starting to go a bit crazy.

Car ready in 'IVA trim'.





So the car was ready, eldest lad had been roped in to escort with a car full of tools, spares, edge trim, cable ties etc just incase. It's a 50 mile drive to the IVA test centre at Livingston, I always prefer to drive them there, everything gets nicely up to temp and you can get the brakes bedded in nicely.

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Sunday 15th January 2023
quotequote all
So the day of the test, left mega early to allow for any issues, A Mcd's breakfast and to allow for M8 traffic.

Sadly before i even left the street I knew Id failed, the speedo wasnt registering on the AIM dash furious. Gutted, never mind crack on get to the other end and see if we can sort it befor the test starts. After an uneventful drive through to test still no joy, the speedo sensor was reading the target as the indicator light on the sensor was working, the dash calibration was correct but just couldnt get a reading. Oh well, spoke to the tester and told him the issue and we began the test.

First up, it failed again on emissions, WTF, we had done a good bit of work at the dyno to ensure the correct readings at the tested RPMs, but then i realised we had the VVT issues at the dyno and i never took it back for another check. My fault again. The rest of the test goes fine, apart from right at the end he slipped in another fail point, he didnt like the toggle switches on the dash and found a very obscure rule.



The offending switches



So his point was that the guards were not strong enough or certified to meet the force requirements. My argument was the rule states "if contactable by a 165mm sphere" which they aren't as the guards prevent contact and the rule states it applies to switches and control knobs. He took my feedback on board but it still went on the fail sheet. It had already failed on the 2 other points anyway so wasn't any point in appealing it. I would have done if it had been the only fail point.

So all in all a bit of a disappointing day, 3rd IVA test and the first one I'd failed. DIdnt like it! and with the tester stating they were stopping testing imminently because of covid it could be a long wait for a retest.....

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Monday 16th January 2023
quotequote all
So first up, speedo, confession time, some idiot had got 2 pins crossed for the load and the ground banghead in my defense the load wire was black and the ground blue so easy done. Any way a nice quick easy fix.

Then onto the switch issue, I didn't want to redo the whole dash and fit different switches if possible. Very kindly one of the guys on the WSCC drew up a possible solution to try and shroud the switch toggles.



This would be able to use all existing dash holes. So I sent an email off to the DVSA to try and get clarification on whether this would satisfy the failure point.

Emissions next, needed to get the car back to the dyno to check the map, he's normally booked up well in advance but he managed to slot me in just a couple of days after the IVA fail. A quirk in the system means that as I'm driving to make repairs for an IVA fail I can legally drive it there this time (after confirming with the insurance) and it was a lovely crisp sunny spring day too, bonus!

So map was checked and all was ok, didnt have time to do full power runs as only had an hour or so, it seems its probably down to the magnaflow cats. They have to be seriously hot to work, not just up to temp, properly hot. It was failing on the figures again, but after holding the car at say 4000 revs for a few minutes you could see the cats starting to work and the figures come right down to the correct levels.

Also on the drive home managed to stretch the cars legs a little, was very happy. The power is just so linear, its rapid but doesnt feel as though it wants to chuck you through the nearest hedge like the ecoboost sport250 could. Plenty of torque and it really comes on song above 5k revs.

Had a reply back from the IVA man who confirmed the switch guard would pass the test so the guy who designed it was also kind enough to 3d print me one too. Thats all the failure points now addressed but sadly unable to make a retest appointment, no full shutdown in place but not taking any bookings.

Oh well nothing better than taking it apart again while I wait! The AIM dash unit had always looked a bit "stuck on" to the dash, so with the help of a very helpful chap called Paul (now runs mofast for alsorts of kit goodies https://mofast.co.uk/) whos an absolute whiz with CAD and another chap from the WSCC who did CNC machining, they put together a recessed dash mount, cleverly with built in plastic switch buttons to operate the buttons on the side of the dash.

As it arrived from machining



Almost a shame to paint it



During the IVA test, jokingly the tester had asked was i leaving the (obviously very second hand) padded IVA steering wheel on the car as its crap! I said well no, but the momo wheel wouldnt pass the test, he then told me as long as the spokes were radiused he would be happy to pass it. So cracked on with building up the freewheel button plate.





Also fitted the quick release boss as well from Go-race, they make a complet upper column for the westfield with the fitting already machined into it, so one pinch bolt, slide out the old column and fit the new. Quality is superb too.



You can see the now-painted up switch guard is fitted too.



And a new lower dash panel made up with just the heated seat switches (yes am soft) and a 12v accessory socket.



Positioned everything to maintain as clear a view as possible to the dash



Re-writing this now makes me realise i was probably pushing things a little in changing things before the retest, if the tester was being arsey i think he could have refused to retest and make me do another full test.

sdh2903

Original Poster:

545 posts

173 months

Tuesday 17th January 2023
quotequote all
Couple more mechanical tweaks done, swapped the clutch master cylinder from a 0.7" to a 0.625" as it was a touch on the heavy side. At the dyno when checking emissions we noticed that the fuel pump was getting a little more "vocal". In fact you could hear it whilst idling and weas gettting worse. Id used a Sytec 044 style pump which i'd not had issues with in the past, went for a walbro this time, now much much quieter.



Also noticed a tiny puddle under the dash coming from the heater box, not from the pipes but the matrix itself. Replacement classic mini matrix ordered.



The gelcoat did have a few marks and imperfections so went for it with p2500 and some 3m gelcoat polish. Came up well.







Had always thought that although i had no real reason to open up the bonnet scoop (it just lets muck in) it did look a little odd, do it got the same treatment as the gills.



And some custom gel badges.



At this point we're now into July/August 2020, my IVA retest application had been accepted onto the system at the DVSA and finally they gave me a retest date of the 1st September.