1972 Saab 99 L - Green
Discussion
The 99 has had an eventful few weeks - nothing bad, but plenty to write home, or rather to PH, about.
The previous owners said the car was fouling plug on short journeys ... well, its definitely fulfilling that brief. Three cyclinders at the start of April after a few local trips, I pulled the plugs and sure enough:
Brass brush applied, back to normal operation. Definitely running more than rich, so we booked it in to TR Autos, who completed an inspection a few weeks earlier on the transmission tunnel rust.
The car drove wonderfully down to Somerset, though my 'pace car' of the Rover 75 (pre van damage) noted that the speedo must be under reading by about 5%! Good thing I kept it to max indicated 55, 70 might have put me in the yellow flashbox of misery. Notable, the paintwork was looking decent after recent careful application of potions...
TR have had the car now for a fair few weeks, and the rust repair went to plan:
Thankfully, Tommy at TR reports no other grot in the undercarraige, which means I have the (Verona) green light to get busy with underseal and gloopy waxy stuff throughout.
Sadly, all is not well with the carb - the initial gas analyser recorded 12% CO2 (splutter!) as the jet and adjustment screws had been fiddled to destruction. Amazingly, the Stromberg 175CD was still running, but after trying two quick fixes - diaphragm and jet, the car was running sweetly but then started creeping up on the analyser after a few drives. Bottom line - the carb needs rebuilding, and we won't be seeing the 99 for a little while yet.
Fortunately, everything else on the car seems to be as we had assessed it, so when it does dome back we'll be good to go for the summer, and hopefully with the absolute minimum of noxious gasses.
We had known the carb was an issue - it is on any old car, and havign it rebuilt now by the Saab sensei is probably the wisest decision. Please note, oh brethren of the floatchambers - this is not the 'standard' 175 you staple to a range rover or vintage Jag, no - this of course has some Saab auto adjustingness about it. So rebuild it is.
The previous owners said the car was fouling plug on short journeys ... well, its definitely fulfilling that brief. Three cyclinders at the start of April after a few local trips, I pulled the plugs and sure enough:
Brass brush applied, back to normal operation. Definitely running more than rich, so we booked it in to TR Autos, who completed an inspection a few weeks earlier on the transmission tunnel rust.
The car drove wonderfully down to Somerset, though my 'pace car' of the Rover 75 (pre van damage) noted that the speedo must be under reading by about 5%! Good thing I kept it to max indicated 55, 70 might have put me in the yellow flashbox of misery. Notable, the paintwork was looking decent after recent careful application of potions...
TR have had the car now for a fair few weeks, and the rust repair went to plan:
Thankfully, Tommy at TR reports no other grot in the undercarraige, which means I have the (Verona) green light to get busy with underseal and gloopy waxy stuff throughout.
Sadly, all is not well with the carb - the initial gas analyser recorded 12% CO2 (splutter!) as the jet and adjustment screws had been fiddled to destruction. Amazingly, the Stromberg 175CD was still running, but after trying two quick fixes - diaphragm and jet, the car was running sweetly but then started creeping up on the analyser after a few drives. Bottom line - the carb needs rebuilding, and we won't be seeing the 99 for a little while yet.
Fortunately, everything else on the car seems to be as we had assessed it, so when it does dome back we'll be good to go for the summer, and hopefully with the absolute minimum of noxious gasses.
We had known the carb was an issue - it is on any old car, and havign it rebuilt now by the Saab sensei is probably the wisest decision. Please note, oh brethren of the floatchambers - this is not the 'standard' 175 you staple to a range rover or vintage Jag, no - this of course has some Saab auto adjustingness about it. So rebuild it is.
Edited by Spinakerr on Monday 1st May 22:01
The 99 remains at TR autos for a a carb rebuild - the team down there are stretched but with the arrival of summer my wife is itching to get out and about!
While that 'Schrodinger's overdraft' hangs over us, I thought it worth posting up this from the latest issue of Top Gear, as my wife and 'Soil' were invited to a photo shoot with the supremely talented (and all round lovely person) Amy Shore. There may be more to come from those two days, but for now here's the headline image, and yes we do have a print of this up in our house!
Of course, depending on Tommy's investigation of our carb and engine this may be the last we ever see of it, but at least we have a good photo, right?
While that 'Schrodinger's overdraft' hangs over us, I thought it worth posting up this from the latest issue of Top Gear, as my wife and 'Soil' were invited to a photo shoot with the supremely talented (and all round lovely person) Amy Shore. There may be more to come from those two days, but for now here's the headline image, and yes we do have a print of this up in our house!
Of course, depending on Tommy's investigation of our carb and engine this may be the last we ever see of it, but at least we have a good photo, right?
Thanks everyone for the comments, links and recollections - this car certainly seems to strike a chord!
As the owner struggles with her new-found fame (ahem), on the carb issue may be nearing conclusion at TR Autos... stay tuned.
On the question of fuel injection, twin carbs etc. - at the moment the cars is so original we're aimign to keep it close the spec it has. For the sake of single digit horsepower we're not planning any changes.
If the carb dissolved completely and the engine chain snaps, lunching itself, then we'll look at options, but Tommy at TR seems confident the CD175 (that no doubt has Saab specific items attached) will be back in action.
There is a rather lovely blue example form 1970 with chrome bumpers on the Bay at present... blue interior too... hmmm!
As the owner struggles with her new-found fame (ahem), on the carb issue may be nearing conclusion at TR Autos... stay tuned.
On the question of fuel injection, twin carbs etc. - at the moment the cars is so original we're aimign to keep it close the spec it has. For the sake of single digit horsepower we're not planning any changes.
If the carb dissolved completely and the engine chain snaps, lunching itself, then we'll look at options, but Tommy at TR seems confident the CD175 (that no doubt has Saab specific items attached) will be back in action.
There is a rather lovely blue example form 1970 with chrome bumpers on the Bay at present... blue interior too... hmmm!
The 99 returned from its carb rebuild at TR Autos in August and has been in gentle use over the summer. It took us to Goodwood Revival weekend and behaved very well, despite the intense heat.
My main task before the events was to bring some life back into the cellulose paint, and thanks to PH members Bilt Hamber Auto Balm was the perfect product to gentle restore it. This photo gives an idea, but its much easier to see the glossy life in person. It reminds me of dogfood adverts saying your canine will have a 'glossy coat and clean gums'. Another layer or two of this should be beneficial.
Naturally on the night we were due to head down to accommodation, I couldn't help but accidentally open the expansion tank to check the level - it hadnt cooled down nearly enough after one of the hottest days of the year! A hasty few microfibres later, plus a few pints of dihydrogen monoxide, and the car was back to proper appearances before the wife arrived. Ahem. The coolant was still properly brown, so a radiator rebuild and full flush following my earlier half-efforts is required.
The 99 took four of us with significant luggage (hats...) with ease - it really is a deceptively large boot for a small car.
The electric fan (original) functioned well, but we found the heater is stuck 'slightly on', and so that and the heater box will need to come out, best to do that when the radiator is out!
Some highlights from the weekend, much has been written and there are plenty of videos, but here are some of my picks:
An Alfa Romeo 2600 Sprint, on of my top cars of all time... one day...
This lovely 96 in the same Verona Green has inspired me to get the wheels refurbished in black and retain the chrome caps - I think would be a nice period update.
I also became obsessed with this Saab locking fuel cap. If anyone knows of one going (from a 95, 96 or 99) please let me know!
Welcome anachronism:
The route home was easier, despite the heat the Saab was weeping a little coolant and (a new one) oil, which seemed to be coming out of the dispstick or rocker. As TR had the cover off for checking valves and supplied a few new screws I'll take a look.
Next job is to get the wheels off and down to my friendly refurber, Jakes Powder Coating, who did such a great job on the MG 260 shadow chrome.
Oh, and I couldn't resist an eBay job lot of old lucking fuel caps... success!
My main task before the events was to bring some life back into the cellulose paint, and thanks to PH members Bilt Hamber Auto Balm was the perfect product to gentle restore it. This photo gives an idea, but its much easier to see the glossy life in person. It reminds me of dogfood adverts saying your canine will have a 'glossy coat and clean gums'. Another layer or two of this should be beneficial.
Naturally on the night we were due to head down to accommodation, I couldn't help but accidentally open the expansion tank to check the level - it hadnt cooled down nearly enough after one of the hottest days of the year! A hasty few microfibres later, plus a few pints of dihydrogen monoxide, and the car was back to proper appearances before the wife arrived. Ahem. The coolant was still properly brown, so a radiator rebuild and full flush following my earlier half-efforts is required.
The 99 took four of us with significant luggage (hats...) with ease - it really is a deceptively large boot for a small car.
The electric fan (original) functioned well, but we found the heater is stuck 'slightly on', and so that and the heater box will need to come out, best to do that when the radiator is out!
Some highlights from the weekend, much has been written and there are plenty of videos, but here are some of my picks:
An Alfa Romeo 2600 Sprint, on of my top cars of all time... one day...
This lovely 96 in the same Verona Green has inspired me to get the wheels refurbished in black and retain the chrome caps - I think would be a nice period update.
I also became obsessed with this Saab locking fuel cap. If anyone knows of one going (from a 95, 96 or 99) please let me know!
Welcome anachronism:
The route home was easier, despite the heat the Saab was weeping a little coolant and (a new one) oil, which seemed to be coming out of the dispstick or rocker. As TR had the cover off for checking valves and supplied a few new screws I'll take a look.
Next job is to get the wheels off and down to my friendly refurber, Jakes Powder Coating, who did such a great job on the MG 260 shadow chrome.
Oh, and I couldn't resist an eBay job lot of old lucking fuel caps... success!
Following a few months of slumber, my wife declared on Christmas Eve that it would be an excellent idea to use 'Soil' for the festive tour of families and friends.
As it hadn't turned a wheel in 2 months, I didnt immediately agree with this idea ("We have an Alfa GTV that just passed the MOT and has everything working..."). However, her side of the debate argued that:
1) The gritters were not out, and it was going to be above 6 degrees pretty much everywhere in the UK
2) The boot was massive for all the cases/presents/food
3) We would need to transport 4 people occasionally
4) It needed to be moved out of the garage for me to get to that extension cord I have been grumbling about for a week anyway.
Fine. Let's get it out and double check everything...
Instant start, tyres have held pressure... no leaks other than the standard B series annoying water pump (no, I am not goign to tackle that right now). The water was a little low (see September Goodwood shenanigans above), some anti freeze added. Alternator belt screech cured with a slight tighten.
Damn. Looks like its all ok.
So off she went as we parted ways on Christmas Eve - WOULD SHE MAKE IT????!"?!?"
Spoiler: Yes. Yes she would.
As it hadn't turned a wheel in 2 months, I didnt immediately agree with this idea ("We have an Alfa GTV that just passed the MOT and has everything working..."). However, her side of the debate argued that:
1) The gritters were not out, and it was going to be above 6 degrees pretty much everywhere in the UK
2) The boot was massive for all the cases/presents/food
3) We would need to transport 4 people occasionally
4) It needed to be moved out of the garage for me to get to that extension cord I have been grumbling about for a week anyway.
Fine. Let's get it out and double check everything...
Instant start, tyres have held pressure... no leaks other than the standard B series annoying water pump (no, I am not goign to tackle that right now). The water was a little low (see September Goodwood shenanigans above), some anti freeze added. Alternator belt screech cured with a slight tighten.
Damn. Looks like its all ok.
So off she went as we parted ways on Christmas Eve - WOULD SHE MAKE IT????!"?!?"
Spoiler: Yes. Yes she would.
I may have spoken too soon - on the return leg from Chrsitmas jaunts, I received the following image of the 99 attempting to impersonate the Flying Scotsman.
The cap and expansion tank failed, necessitating some 'quiet time' while my wife sought out some coolant.
Hilariously, this occurred at a Shell station. You won't find these images on the advertising campaign, but it does prove she only ever fills up there!
As you might expect, some people (men) stopped to offer 'advice'. Most of which was wrong. My wife tolerated what she could, but let's just say the responses she wanted to give as people got in the way and kept blathering, would not be repeatable, even on PH!
Entropy progressed, and with a few clips/bodges to get the cap on, she nursed the car home. 400 miles completed over christmas, done.
The tank is really shot - mild steel and miserable - I've beens peaking to Jim at Alloy Racing Fabrications to make up a new one. Its a straightforward shape so I'm hoping that, plus a refurbed or new radiator, gets the 99 back on track for spring.
The cap and expansion tank failed, necessitating some 'quiet time' while my wife sought out some coolant.
Hilariously, this occurred at a Shell station. You won't find these images on the advertising campaign, but it does prove she only ever fills up there!
As you might expect, some people (men) stopped to offer 'advice'. Most of which was wrong. My wife tolerated what she could, but let's just say the responses she wanted to give as people got in the way and kept blathering, would not be repeatable, even on PH!
Entropy progressed, and with a few clips/bodges to get the cap on, she nursed the car home. 400 miles completed over christmas, done.
The tank is really shot - mild steel and miserable - I've beens peaking to Jim at Alloy Racing Fabrications to make up a new one. Its a straightforward shape so I'm hoping that, plus a refurbed or new radiator, gets the 99 back on track for spring.
jeremyc said:
Off topic, but a reminder that it's the Southside Hustle meeting in Wimbledon tomorrow. 
You'll just have to bring another of the fleet.
Sorry, I kept my unbroken record of missing it!You'll just have to bring another of the fleet.
I hauled the 99 out of the garage yesterday to breakdown the cooling system - the colour of what I can see - think Beverly Hills Cop II incriminating brick red - convinced me to take the whole system out.
Radiator hoses loosened, water drained...
Three 1/2in bolts later, the radiator came out - just the electronic fan power to disconnect.
Despite the front-opening bonnet, access was good - lovely car to work on.
That whole front slam panel should probably come out to stop any rust - you may remember I did the same for the 900 Turbo a few years ago and it was the right decision while the radiator was out. This has the bonnet mechanism but also the light mounts... I may wait for warmer weather.
Not exactly appetising...
I really like the design of the fan and radiator. I'm aiming to get this recored rather than go aluminium - anyone recommed a good place in the London/SW area? I was looking at Raysons in Yeovil as they are near my parents.
No wonder the fan went off randomly - the sensor was likely completely gummed.
Expansion tank was just two screws and a few hoses.
Mmmm lovely...
Scope creep ahoy - this bracket and surrounding area need preventative rust treatment...
Thermostat housing looked ok on the outside...
...but was clearly suffering underneath.
Completely seized... one symptom down.
Repurposed some old hoses to try a but of a flush of the block. Not especially successful, but orange came out.
Right, that's a start!
Radiator - to be recored.
Expansion tank - I was looking at aluminium ones but I may try some sort of deep clean and then a new cap to reuse it and keep original. It is plastic, for some reason I had thought it was mild steel.
Thermostat - Bin.
Thermostat housing - pipe end corrosion not salvageable, but I spotted the complete unit on, of all places for a Saab, ebay Italy. 2 minutes after clicking 'watch' an offer of €18 was made, so I accepted. It even included a thermostat that looks respectable.
While that gets sorted out I'll remove a load of these brackets and mounting points for derustification and paint.
My concern is the red rust soup is in the heating matrix too... maybe I should open up some hoses and try some more flushing?
Any advice from the Saab sect of PH?
Thanks all - yes 99T agreed, parts hoarding is in motion.
I'll concentrate on gettong the engine actually cooling reliably and no leaks, which will take long enough.
The water pump sadly is a ridiculously complicated job that required specific tools, troll blood and some sort of Lovecraftian ritual. It doea leak a little at startup BUT the water that came out was clear. I think the tanks, rad and thermostat are the main Orangina carriers.
I had a quote from Jim at Alloy Racing Fabricators for a new tank at 130 quid. I'm going to take a proper look at the old one and its guts to see if it is salvageable and will accomodate a new cap.
To be continued...
I'll concentrate on gettong the engine actually cooling reliably and no leaks, which will take long enough.
The water pump sadly is a ridiculously complicated job that required specific tools, troll blood and some sort of Lovecraftian ritual. It doea leak a little at startup BUT the water that came out was clear. I think the tanks, rad and thermostat are the main Orangina carriers.
I had a quote from Jim at Alloy Racing Fabricators for a new tank at 130 quid. I'm going to take a proper look at the old one and its guts to see if it is salvageable and will accomodate a new cap.
To be continued...
Parts have trickled in over the past few weeks, and with some sun creeping in for April it was time to get the 99 back together. Here's a catch up, not necessarily in order:
The expansion tank brackets were given a damn good power sand/wire wheel, Bilt Hamber treatment and then Electrox primer and some satin blakc in my makeshift paintbooth.
The engine bay had a similar gentle rust prevention - I don't want to get into full stripdown territory yet but anything obvious brown was sanded and Bilt Hambered. Note the hose bracket in the bottom right came off for the full treatment.
In the intervening weeks the radiator went to Raysons in Yeovil for a rebuild. Pricey but keen to keep the originality - top notch service, communication and quality.
I managed to source a better thermostat housing as the outlet on ours had significantly deteriorated. Thanks to Saab for relentlessly putting parts numbers on things.
Nearly new thermostat wiht the correct temp sourced, tested on the hob and rubber surround replaced.
New fan switch sensor found - we will come back to this...
Added with a bit of effort - I put a big spanner on it and of course the radiator neck started moving! Crisis averted, narrowly.
Cleaned up the rad bolts and tested the bracketry before a final Bilt Hamber coat.
Now on to a truly tasty part! Jim at Alloy Racing Fabrications made up a copy of the plastic expansion tank - and it is glorious! It looks delightful and will likely prompt mode engine bay titivation.
New correct pressure cap sourced from SaabBits.
After the rad was in I realised the fan should have been fitted beforehand - cue a 30 minute 'obstinancy session' where I refused to take the rad back out and sort it easily, and instead persisted with blind socketry and screwdriver fumbling...
Screws, washers and bolts tidied throughout...
Tank test fit to ensure the bonnet closes and hoses line up - all good. The bottom left hose will need to be replaced ASAP but no exact match is easily available. It may entail a trip to Raysons to make up a little set.
Throughout all this - primers and many coats to bits are added...
New theremstat in, after some cleanup of the receiving area. Also cue my finding all tubes of Hylomar had solidified so I had to wait another day for some gasket sealant...
New bolts, copper slip and all ok.
Binky officianados will appreciate some good bracketry.
Success.
Key in... maybe 3 months since the last start and... instantly caught and fired. Good thing too after all the work last year!
Careful topping up and bleeding ensued, and the 99 is back up to temperature and mobile!
Sister in law helped to spot some leaks and tighten the jubilee clips...
Unfortunately the fan did not kick in as expected - so some invstigation required on the new switch, the water level perhaps being a bit low or (more likely) I need to take the radiator and fan out and put it back together with the earth wire in the right position following my persistent blind bulldozer assembly session.
Next up - will it make it to Bicester Sunday Scramble?
The expansion tank brackets were given a damn good power sand/wire wheel, Bilt Hamber treatment and then Electrox primer and some satin blakc in my makeshift paintbooth.
The engine bay had a similar gentle rust prevention - I don't want to get into full stripdown territory yet but anything obvious brown was sanded and Bilt Hambered. Note the hose bracket in the bottom right came off for the full treatment.
In the intervening weeks the radiator went to Raysons in Yeovil for a rebuild. Pricey but keen to keep the originality - top notch service, communication and quality.
I managed to source a better thermostat housing as the outlet on ours had significantly deteriorated. Thanks to Saab for relentlessly putting parts numbers on things.
Nearly new thermostat wiht the correct temp sourced, tested on the hob and rubber surround replaced.
New fan switch sensor found - we will come back to this...
Added with a bit of effort - I put a big spanner on it and of course the radiator neck started moving! Crisis averted, narrowly.
Cleaned up the rad bolts and tested the bracketry before a final Bilt Hamber coat.
Now on to a truly tasty part! Jim at Alloy Racing Fabrications made up a copy of the plastic expansion tank - and it is glorious! It looks delightful and will likely prompt mode engine bay titivation.
New correct pressure cap sourced from SaabBits.
After the rad was in I realised the fan should have been fitted beforehand - cue a 30 minute 'obstinancy session' where I refused to take the rad back out and sort it easily, and instead persisted with blind socketry and screwdriver fumbling...
Screws, washers and bolts tidied throughout...
Tank test fit to ensure the bonnet closes and hoses line up - all good. The bottom left hose will need to be replaced ASAP but no exact match is easily available. It may entail a trip to Raysons to make up a little set.
Throughout all this - primers and many coats to bits are added...
New theremstat in, after some cleanup of the receiving area. Also cue my finding all tubes of Hylomar had solidified so I had to wait another day for some gasket sealant...
New bolts, copper slip and all ok.
Binky officianados will appreciate some good bracketry.
Success.
Key in... maybe 3 months since the last start and... instantly caught and fired. Good thing too after all the work last year!
Careful topping up and bleeding ensued, and the 99 is back up to temperature and mobile!
Sister in law helped to spot some leaks and tighten the jubilee clips...
Unfortunately the fan did not kick in as expected - so some invstigation required on the new switch, the water level perhaps being a bit low or (more likely) I need to take the radiator and fan out and put it back together with the earth wire in the right position following my persistent blind bulldozer assembly session.
Next up - will it make it to Bicester Sunday Scramble?
General call out for info - the temperature sensor for the fan (working befroe this work) isnt kicking in, but only has a single connector. On more modern cars I can bridge the two connectors on the sensor to trigger the fan - what is the best way to test the circuit with this 'single connector' setup? Bridge to earth?
Short update on the 99, large amount of Bicester photos - you are forewarned!
I took all the tips shared here on fan diagnosis - many thanks - everything worked in isolation when prompted, and I wanted to check the new sensor as it was the only new part.
I performed a bit of a 'half flush' by taking out the thermostat, undoing the new radiator drain and topping up the system continuously while pointing the hose in various accessible bits.
Bleeding the system from the top of the thermostat (so accessible!) removed a lot of air, and over the course of 15 minutes it appears the system had got rid of all air pockets.
And just like that, the fan came on:
Lesson learnt - must have been an air pocket around the sensor, or my checks got the contacts in the wiring better seated!
Suitably buoyed, I gave it a quick wash, no time for wax or autobalm, and checked the tyres (which are starting to develop minute cracks and so need to be ditched), and we set sail for Bicester at a steady 60mph.
No issues en route, a little oil weepage continues that probably needs more investigation (although the level on the dipstick remains resolutely on MAX). But it really was a joy to have the 99 running so well on the motorway, great visibility and very comfortable for the 1hr drive. I even had the seat warmer come on at startup, which was welcome as it was a bit chilly.
Bicester was packed - this is not 'cars and coffee' event anymore - thousands of people, and I was lucky enough to meet up with a few PHers, plus catch a few I had not met throughout the day.
5k for this appeared to be a bargain (@lukeharding):
Observer 6 series:
I really like this kind of curio. It even had its registration in the number plate glass!
Some old Ferrari Daytona replica too...
Next up on the Saab list - drive it more int he summer! Some waxoil and rust prevention, take a look at the oil weep situation....
I took all the tips shared here on fan diagnosis - many thanks - everything worked in isolation when prompted, and I wanted to check the new sensor as it was the only new part.
I performed a bit of a 'half flush' by taking out the thermostat, undoing the new radiator drain and topping up the system continuously while pointing the hose in various accessible bits.
Bleeding the system from the top of the thermostat (so accessible!) removed a lot of air, and over the course of 15 minutes it appears the system had got rid of all air pockets.
And just like that, the fan came on:
Lesson learnt - must have been an air pocket around the sensor, or my checks got the contacts in the wiring better seated!
Suitably buoyed, I gave it a quick wash, no time for wax or autobalm, and checked the tyres (which are starting to develop minute cracks and so need to be ditched), and we set sail for Bicester at a steady 60mph.
No issues en route, a little oil weepage continues that probably needs more investigation (although the level on the dipstick remains resolutely on MAX). But it really was a joy to have the 99 running so well on the motorway, great visibility and very comfortable for the 1hr drive. I even had the seat warmer come on at startup, which was welcome as it was a bit chilly.
Bicester was packed - this is not 'cars and coffee' event anymore - thousands of people, and I was lucky enough to meet up with a few PHers, plus catch a few I had not met throughout the day.
5k for this appeared to be a bargain (@lukeharding):
Observer 6 series:
I really like this kind of curio. It even had its registration in the number plate glass!
Some old Ferrari Daytona replica too...
Next up on the Saab list - drive it more int he summer! Some waxoil and rust prevention, take a look at the oil weep situation....
Edited by Spinakerr on Tuesday 7th May 21:39
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff