Satan's barge - 1983 Ferrari 400i
Discussion
PR350 said:
I absolutely adore the 400i/412 and was lucky enough to be driven in one many moons ago. A genuinely beautiful car to my eyes.
I was an avid reader of "Fast Lane" back in the day and remember reading an article where the editor (Peter Dron?) had a RHD 412 with a manual 'box and - although I'm older and suffer from brain fog much more now - seem to recall something in the article about the 4-valve heads of the Testarossa being a direct swap for the 412 although the TR was a boxer 12 and not a Vee everything else was the same - something prompts a memory of a 50ish bhp gain in theory. I may have dreamt this, but always, always wanted a 400i/412 and in dreamland it came with a TR head and a manual 'box
Looking forward to the continuing tales of this fantastic machine OP, you're a very lucky chap imho.
The one tested by Fast Lane was black and, as you say, had a manual box.I was an avid reader of "Fast Lane" back in the day and remember reading an article where the editor (Peter Dron?) had a RHD 412 with a manual 'box and - although I'm older and suffer from brain fog much more now - seem to recall something in the article about the 4-valve heads of the Testarossa being a direct swap for the 412 although the TR was a boxer 12 and not a Vee everything else was the same - something prompts a memory of a 50ish bhp gain in theory. I may have dreamt this, but always, always wanted a 400i/412 and in dreamland it came with a TR head and a manual 'box
Looking forward to the continuing tales of this fantastic machine OP, you're a very lucky chap imho.
I've just rediscovered my old Fast Lanes while clearing out my parents house. It's hard not to sit and read them instead of doing something more constructive!
5 In a Row said:
The one tested by Fast Lane was black and, as you say, had a manual box.
I've just rediscovered my old Fast Lanes while clearing out my parents house. It's hard not to sit and read them instead of doing something more constructive!
I still have every single one. Great mag.I've just rediscovered my old Fast Lanes while clearing out my parents house. It's hard not to sit and read them instead of doing something more constructive!
Momentainious said:
They had a 365GT4 2+2 at an H & H auction in Buxton April last year. It was the only car that I spent more than a few minutes looking at. Lovely colour and a manual.
https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-31---1973-...
I didn't see that one come up! Looks like a beauty. Great colour. https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-31---1973-...
All the 365 versions were manual, actually, and there were 109 RHD cars. The auto was first offered on the 400GT in 1976, a carburettor car, with 501 RHD made, 71% of which were auto. The 400i, from 1979, was the first Ferrari with fuel injection with 1,294 RHD, 67% of which were auto. I haven't got the RHD stats for the 412, but of total factory production of 576 cars, 53% were auto.
Re the transmission, which often comes up in discussions of these cars, I went for an auto as it suited me better. I've had manual Porsches, but, you know, changing gear at normal road speeds, which is what most drivers do most of the time, isn't that much fun. There is a 400 owner on Ferrarichat who had a manual and an auto at the same time, and he sold the manual as he found he just wasn't using it. And, I suspect, if they were your only two cars, most people would do the same.
I mentioned on a past thread about these cars that I did thousands of miles on track in manual V8 Ferraris from the 308 to the 355, with owners and potential owners, and most of them couldn't drive a soapy stick up a dog's arse. When they thought they were relishing some life-affirming experience of mastering a traditional manual Ferrari gearbox, what they were actually doing was destroying a traditional manual Ferrari gearbox. It was painful, and Ferrari dealers must have made a fortune out of repairing cars that owners had no idea how to drive. Back in the '60s and early '70s, with much less traffic and no speed limits, I can see how a sporting motorist would have been able to enjoy regularly using a manual Ferrari. These days, personally, I want to use my car and not worry about getting stuck in traffic for hours - I'm pretty sure the sensual indulgence of a 1970s Ferrari with a manual box wears off fairly rapidly in those situations.
And these are big, lardy GT cars, like the Interceptor, the 928, the XJS and the SL, and designed to be much more practical than smaller, sportier cars. It's a Rolls-Royce with an epic V12 engine. Most motoring journalists writing about these when they were new were not really the target market, and they turned out to be wrong about the automatic diminishing the appeal. Most buyers disagreed with them. It's understandable that enthusiasts of classic cars are into more engaging experiences, but, again, they weren't buying these things new.
If you wanted something to thrash around B-roads, you wouldn't buy one of these. These are for long-distance high speed cruising, in which case you don't need to change gear, or for pottering around the city, in which case you don't want to.
Driving up and down twisty mountain passes in this would be a totally boring way of doing 5mpg, whichever transmission it had. If
you wanted to press on along twisty UK roads, you would never get out of third gear in a manual. By that time, if you were were really revving it, you'd be doing triple figures. I suspect that owners of big, heavy, classic Ferraris that are mostly run for a few hundred miles a year don't actually do that......Anyway, I've driven manual versions and it's really not that different.
In the words of Forrest Gump, that's all I have to say about that!
Edited by Rumdoodle on Thursday 30th March 21:27
Thanks for posting, OP. A good story to follow.
The Lauda car was auctioned recently. https://fahrzeuge.dorotheum.com/en/l/8323358/
The Lauda car was auctioned recently. https://fahrzeuge.dorotheum.com/en/l/8323358/
90sMasers said:
That blue 412 coming to auction looks a fabulous example.
But I can’t help but think that the shape was ruined in the 412 by the raising of the boot line. The 365 and 400 look so much more elegant in profile than the 412. And once you’ve seen it, you can’t un-see it.
Yes, the 412 is a bit dumpy looking at the back end. Would love to have a drive in one.But I can’t help but think that the shape was ruined in the 412 by the raising of the boot line. The 365 and 400 look so much more elegant in profile than the 412. And once you’ve seen it, you can’t un-see it.
With my first round of snag-sorting done, I did plenty of miles in September. Took it to Kop Hill, an event that I'd never attended despite living in Princes Risborough for ten years or so when I was growing up. That pre-dated the revived hillclimb, and I remember cycling up the hill on my three-speed racing bike. There was some nice Italian motors there
It was an accident at Kop Hill in 1925 that did for motorsport on public roads on the mainland, when an inexperienced driver who had bought a Bugatti off Raymond Mays ploughed into some spectators. One of my pandemic pastimes was acquiring job lots of ancient Motorsport magazines, which revived an old interest in 1930s Grand Prix racing, and also voiturette racing, which became the basis of what, post-war, became known as Formula One. My taste for small capacity engines with loads of cylinders is certainly linked to a bit of a fascination with the Mercedes and Auto Union teams of the 1930s, as well as the BRM V16. I once push-started Froilan Gonzalez in a V16 at Silverstone, and still remember the phenomenal noise of that extraordinary car. Mays, as the brains and money behind ERA and BRM, is one of the most important figures in British motorsport, and a fascinating character. He was a brilliant competitor at Shelsley Walsh, which I also visited for the first time - and second time, actually - also in September. What a gem of a place. I shall definitely be back there as often as I can.
This short clip has a post-race interview with Mays, which is such a contrast with the formulaic drivel churned out at press conferences these days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDg9dGx3gXs The "Whitney Straight" he refers to as the previous record holder led a rather interesting life.
I then took in the end-of-season Ferrari championship races at Silverstone, which provided a glimpse of the very strange cult of Passione Ferrari, some kind of lifestyle thing based on Ferrari track events. I had free passes and it was just down the road, otherwise it's not the sort of thing I'd have attended. Lots of new models, none of which I could have identified beyond "Ferrari". I guess there might have been more classics if it hadn't clashed with the Goodwood Revival. Nice crowd of people, though, who were all nuts about Ferrari. There was an immaculate red 412 there, which is currently for sale in the classifieds.
Just as the weather started to turn autumnal, I went away again and had the car booked in for new brakes all round in time for some more motoring at Christmas.
JeremyH5 said:
Gents, I see two of you deploring the boot shape on the 412 compared to the 400 but I don’t know what you mean.
Please help me understand what I can’t, for the life of me, see?
Rumdoodles 400
The 412 about to be auctioned
Not deploring! Just observing, and it's not immediately obvious, particularly if the suspension is not at exactly the same level. Actually, that shot of my car doesn't really illustrate the point, as it's on a slope and a bump.Please help me understand what I can’t, for the life of me, see?
Rumdoodles 400
The 412 about to be auctioned
Not sure if these help
400
412
Edited by Rumdoodle on Friday 31st March 20:11
Rumdoodle said:
Yes, the 412 is a bit dumpy looking at the back end. Would love to have a drive in one.
With my first round of snag-sorting done, I did plenty of miles in September. Took it to Kop Hill, an event that I'd never attended despite living in Princes Risborough for ten years or so when I was growing up. That pre-dated the revived hillclimb, and I remember cycling up the hill on my three-speed racing bike. There was some nice Italian motors there
It was an accident at Kop Hill in 1925 that did for motorsport on public roads on the mainland, when an inexperienced driver who had bought a Bugatti off Raymond Mays ploughed into some spectators. One of my pandemic pastimes was acquiring job lots of ancient Motorsport magazines, which revived an old interest in 1930s Grand Prix racing, and also voiturette racing, which became the basis of what, post-war, became known as Formula One. My taste for small capacity engines with loads of cylinders is certainly linked to a bit of a fascination with the Mercedes and Auto Union teams of the 1930s, as well as the BRM V16. I once push-started Froilan Gonzalez in a V16 at Silverstone, and still remember the phenomenal noise of that extraordinary car. Mays, as the brains and money behind ERA and BRM, is one of the most important figures in British motorsport, and a fascinating character. He was a brilliant competitor at Shelsley Walsh, which I also visited for the first time - and second time, actually - also in September. What a gem of a place. I shall definitely be back there as often as I can.
This short clip has a post-race interview with Mays, which is such a contrast with the formulaic drivel churned out at press conferences these days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDg9dGx3gXs The "Whitney Straight" he refers to as the previous record holder led a rather interesting life.
I then took in the end-of-season Ferrari championship races at Silverstone, which provided a glimpse of the very strange cult of Passione Ferrari, some kind of lifestyle thing based on Ferrari track events. I had free passes and it was just down the road, otherwise it's not the sort of thing I'd have attended. Lots of new models, none of which I could have identified beyond "Ferrari". I guess there might have been more classics if it hadn't clashed with the Goodwood Revival. Nice crowd of people, though, who were all nuts about Ferrari. There was an immaculate red 412 there, which is currently for sale in the classifieds.
Just as the weather started to turn autumnal, I went away again and had the car booked in for new brakes all round in time for some more motoring at Christmas.
My old Jarama (now looking lovely)With my first round of snag-sorting done, I did plenty of miles in September. Took it to Kop Hill, an event that I'd never attended despite living in Princes Risborough for ten years or so when I was growing up. That pre-dated the revived hillclimb, and I remember cycling up the hill on my three-speed racing bike. There was some nice Italian motors there
It was an accident at Kop Hill in 1925 that did for motorsport on public roads on the mainland, when an inexperienced driver who had bought a Bugatti off Raymond Mays ploughed into some spectators. One of my pandemic pastimes was acquiring job lots of ancient Motorsport magazines, which revived an old interest in 1930s Grand Prix racing, and also voiturette racing, which became the basis of what, post-war, became known as Formula One. My taste for small capacity engines with loads of cylinders is certainly linked to a bit of a fascination with the Mercedes and Auto Union teams of the 1930s, as well as the BRM V16. I once push-started Froilan Gonzalez in a V16 at Silverstone, and still remember the phenomenal noise of that extraordinary car. Mays, as the brains and money behind ERA and BRM, is one of the most important figures in British motorsport, and a fascinating character. He was a brilliant competitor at Shelsley Walsh, which I also visited for the first time - and second time, actually - also in September. What a gem of a place. I shall definitely be back there as often as I can.
This short clip has a post-race interview with Mays, which is such a contrast with the formulaic drivel churned out at press conferences these days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDg9dGx3gXs The "Whitney Straight" he refers to as the previous record holder led a rather interesting life.
I then took in the end-of-season Ferrari championship races at Silverstone, which provided a glimpse of the very strange cult of Passione Ferrari, some kind of lifestyle thing based on Ferrari track events. I had free passes and it was just down the road, otherwise it's not the sort of thing I'd have attended. Lots of new models, none of which I could have identified beyond "Ferrari". I guess there might have been more classics if it hadn't clashed with the Goodwood Revival. Nice crowd of people, though, who were all nuts about Ferrari. There was an immaculate red 412 there, which is currently for sale in the classifieds.
Just as the weather started to turn autumnal, I went away again and had the car booked in for new brakes all round in time for some more motoring at Christmas.
Fessia fancier said:
Thanks for posting, OP. A good story to follow.
The Lauda car was auctioned recently. https://fahrzeuge.dorotheum.com/en/l/8323358/
It made Euros 207,000, the power of celeb provenance !The Lauda car was auctioned recently. https://fahrzeuge.dorotheum.com/en/l/8323358/
Rumdoodle said:
Not deploring! Just observing, and it's not immediately obvious, particularly if the suspension is not at exactly the same level. Actually, that shot of my car doesn't really illustrate the point, as it's on a slope and a bump.
Not sure if these help
400
412
Thank you, I do see what you mean now. Not sure if these help
400
412
Edited by Rumdoodle on Friday 31st March 20:11
MGDavid said:
The issue with visibility of the front indicators may be high resistance in the circuit caused by dirty connections. If you have a multi meter and know how to use it you can check to see if that is the case.
Good point, thanks. I shall report back. It's due an MOT - its last ever! - and I think it'll have to be rectified before then. The next job was discs and pads all round. Straightforward stuff, although the cost of front discs, which are unique to this model - is now £1k each. Meantime, whittling the fleet down to one meant putting the remaining car up for sale, my Mercedes, which featured on a thread on here long ago. Now sold.
The number plate on the 400 is held on with sellotape there (classy!) but I've had some new ones made up since and fixed them properly.
When I came back in December, I was staying at a hotel in Old Windsor and realised that what used to be Maranello Sales was just down the road, so I pootled down and took a photo
My car was a Maranello demonstrator for the first year of its life, so it was familiar ground. You can see in that shot the colour difference of the front indicators.
With new brakes to complement the new tyres, she was gliding along beautifully. The only snag was the offside electric window motor packing up mid-afternoon on Christmas Eve, necessitating the removal of the doorcard and the manual adjustment of the glass just in time for the darkness and rain. This was all done outside and was easy enough. Everything came out intact except a few plastic clips that probably weren't designed to withstand removal. The last time the doorcard had been off, the doorframe had been sealed with a bin bag and tank tape, which had done a good job. It was a useful opportunity to inspect the state of the door and it was a bit grubby but completely intact with no corrosion around the drainholes and base. As of today, it's still not fixed as the parts are unobtainable new. I'm hoping my friendly local specialist can improvise a repair. The older cars were supplied with a handle that could be inserted into a hole in the doorcard as a manual crank back-up, but I don't have one and I wonder if they had dispensed with that by the time of the 400i. Anyway, the glass is intact and we'll get it sorted.
Went out to a New Year's Day meet at Stony Stratford
and evoked the music video of Pizza Guy by Touch Sensitive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uXrXTSASK0
and then had a nice morning at the January Bicester Scramble.
5 In a Row said:
PR350 said:
I absolutely adore the 400i/412 and was lucky enough to be driven in one many moons ago. A genuinely beautiful car to my eyes.
I was an avid reader of "Fast Lane" back in the day and remember reading an article where the editor (Peter Dron?) had a RHD 412 with a manual 'box and - although I'm older and suffer from brain fog much more now - seem to recall something in the article about the 4-valve heads of the Testarossa being a direct swap for the 412 although the TR was a boxer 12 and not a Vee everything else was the same - something prompts a memory of a 50ish bhp gain in theory. I may have dreamt this, but always, always wanted a 400i/412 and in dreamland it came with a TR head and a manual 'box
Looking forward to the continuing tales of this fantastic machine OP, you're a very lucky chap imho.
The one tested by Fast Lane was black and, as you say, had a manual box.I was an avid reader of "Fast Lane" back in the day and remember reading an article where the editor (Peter Dron?) had a RHD 412 with a manual 'box and - although I'm older and suffer from brain fog much more now - seem to recall something in the article about the 4-valve heads of the Testarossa being a direct swap for the 412 although the TR was a boxer 12 and not a Vee everything else was the same - something prompts a memory of a 50ish bhp gain in theory. I may have dreamt this, but always, always wanted a 400i/412 and in dreamland it came with a TR head and a manual 'box
Looking forward to the continuing tales of this fantastic machine OP, you're a very lucky chap imho.
I've just rediscovered my old Fast Lanes while clearing out my parents house. It's hard not to sit and read them instead of doing something more constructive!
Rumdoodle said:
MGDavid said:
The issue with visibility of the front indicators may be high resistance in the circuit caused by dirty connections. If you have a multi meter and know how to use it you can check to see if that is the case.
Good point, thanks. I shall report back. It's due an MOT - its last ever! - and I think it'll have to be rectified before then. The next job was discs and pads all round. Straightforward stuff, although the cost of front discs, which are unique to this model - is now £1k each. Meantime, whittling the fleet down to one meant putting the remaining car up for sale, my Mercedes, which featured on a thread on here long ago. Now sold.
The number plate on the 400 is held on with sellotape there (classy!) but I've had some new ones made up since and fixed them properly.
When I came back in December, I was staying at a hotel in Old Windsor and realised that what used to be Maranello Sales was just down the road, so I pootled down and took a photo
My car was a Maranello demonstrator for the first year of its life, so it was familiar ground. You can see in that shot the colour difference of the front indicators.
With new brakes to complement the new tyres, she was gliding along beautifully. The only snag was the offside electric window motor packing up mid-afternoon on Christmas Eve, necessitating the removal of the doorcard and the manual adjustment of the glass just in time for the darkness and rain. This was all done outside and was easy enough. Everything came out intact except a few plastic clips that probably weren't designed to withstand removal. The last time the doorcard had been off, the doorframe had been sealed with a bin bag and tank tape, which had done a good job. It was a useful opportunity to inspect the state of the door and it was a bit grubby but completely intact with no corrosion around the drainholes and base. As of today, it's still not fixed as the parts are unobtainable new. I'm hoping my friendly local specialist can improvise a repair. The older cars were supplied with a handle that could be inserted into a hole in the doorcard as a manual crank back-up, but I don't have one and I wonder if they had dispensed with that by the time of the 400i. Anyway, the glass is intact and we'll get it sorted.
Went out to a New Year's Day meet at Stony Stratford
and evoked the music video of Pizza Guy by Touch Sensitive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uXrXTSASK0
and then had a nice morning at the January Bicester Scramble.
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