Discussion
Nice looking car (I like the wheels), but it's a bit of a mish mash I'm afraid. No idea why they changed the engine for the Audi unit as the 1.8 16v unit is a glorious piece of work. Changing it for another 16v just isn't the same as the original thrashable engine. The whole point of the mk2 GTI 16v was the fact the engine was entirely thrashable. Replacing it's engine is like giving Elton John the voice of Britney Spears.
And I'm stuck with the pre 88 steering wheel on an 88/89 plated car. I just don't understand why it has the wrong steering wheel???
Which is odd since the original owner binned the small bumpers and put the 89+ big bumpers on the car, which add something in the order of 100kgs to the weight of the car. And then put an 87 steering wheel on the car??
As for you not liking it - erm - not surprised for a number of reasons.
1. It's not a real 16v GTI. It's heavier with a different engine.
2. It's an old car. You did go backwards (although the mk3 was barely moving forward). But at the end of the day you are driving a car that is 22-23 years old this year!
I love my old (unmolested) 16v GTI but it's an old lady and 23 this year. It might be rebuilt but it's not a young car any more.
And I'm stuck with the pre 88 steering wheel on an 88/89 plated car. I just don't understand why it has the wrong steering wheel???
Which is odd since the original owner binned the small bumpers and put the 89+ big bumpers on the car, which add something in the order of 100kgs to the weight of the car. And then put an 87 steering wheel on the car??
As for you not liking it - erm - not surprised for a number of reasons.
1. It's not a real 16v GTI. It's heavier with a different engine.
2. It's an old car. You did go backwards (although the mk3 was barely moving forward). But at the end of the day you are driving a car that is 22-23 years old this year!
I love my old (unmolested) 16v GTI but it's an old lady and 23 this year. It might be rebuilt but it's not a young car any more.
Adz The Rat said:
Its like you have read my mind.
I cant understand why the big bumpers are on there, they didnt even bother to put the side skirts on.
Not a fan of the steering wheel either.
Golf scene was infiltrated by amateurs who fecked around with the Golf unmercifully. Out went taste and originality, in came bodge and bad taste. A huge "that'll do" attitude. I cant understand why the big bumpers are on there, they didnt even bother to put the side skirts on.
Not a fan of the steering wheel either.
Sad thing is that many of these modified Golfs is that they fall into a bad state very quickly, and then the scrapper gets that much closer.
Adz The Rat said:
I know what you mean.
Mine is a good solid car, it just seems to be the bits that have been messed with that are pissing me off.
Why not keep it? Sort out it's issues and give it a decent chance?Mine is a good solid car, it just seems to be the bits that have been messed with that are pissing me off.
I'm all about Mk2s (especially 16vs) getting a decent chance in life
At the end of the day there must be plenty of spares out there, even original 16v engines. And the 'scene' is always looking for parts (eg big bumpers and the Audi 2litre unit). You only have to find a bent donor car and you are quids in, if that is your thing. (Bent as in whacked into a lamppost and not stolen).
See how I feel when Im back from my holiday.
Its going to need a clutch either way so will do that, might put some original small bumpers on, sell the big bumpers and see how I like it.
I think if I did that and also changed the wheels to something more original or maybe even G60 steels then I might like it again.
I wouldnt scrap it, the shell itself is far too good for that.
Its going to need a clutch either way so will do that, might put some original small bumpers on, sell the big bumpers and see how I like it.
I think if I did that and also changed the wheels to something more original or maybe even G60 steels then I might like it again.
I wouldnt scrap it, the shell itself is far too good for that.
roverspeed said:
Should be able to get small GTI bumpers for less than you can sell the big bumpers.
Or you might even be lucky enough to get a straight swap with someone.
Never liked the big bumper models, smaller ones always looked best
I still miss mine..........
YES!Or you might even be lucky enough to get a straight swap with someone.
Never liked the big bumper models, smaller ones always looked best
I still miss mine..........
i wouldn't say i HATE big bumpers, wouldn't put me of buying the car for example, but i've never seen the big obsession with them, small bumpers just look better (couldn't think of a better word
)i don't know about you, but i also prefere sciroccos without the body kit, they look good with it, but not as good
Adz The Rat said:
I think if I did that and also changed the wheels to something more original or maybe even G60 steels then I might like it again.
I wouldnt scrap it, the shell itself is far too good for that.
Look for some Estorils. Always liked them, but my 16v was a Campaign so had Castellets as standard. When I did update my wheels I managed to swap from 14" Castellets to 15" Castellets, which are rare as rocking horse do do. Took a fair bit of time and money to track down 4 wheels. (And then I had the mirror finish removed, and returned back to their original colour - much to the disgust of the wheel refurb company I wouldnt scrap it, the shell itself is far too good for that.
).For some reason Estorils were another unloved part of the Golf scene so you should be able to pick up some fairly cheaply. They were also on some Corrados as well so again, they shouldn't be too difficult to source.
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/UuBiwbIB.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/bkHgNU01" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/bkHgNU01.jpg)
tinman0 said:
Which is odd since the original owner binned the small bumpers and put the 89+ big bumpers on the car, which add something in the order of 100kgs to the weight of the car. And then put an 87 steering wheel on the car??
100kg?Give over
There is no way that there is a 100kg difference in small and big bumpers.
They have a slightly different mount on the wings which is made of plastic, the bumper iron I imagine is pretty similar, the only difference is there is obviously more plastic to the big bumpers, but not 100kgs worth!
Matt_N said:
tinman0 said:
Which is odd since the original owner binned the small bumpers and put the 89+ big bumpers on the car, which add something in the order of 100kgs to the weight of the car. And then put an 87 steering wheel on the car??
100kg?Give over
There is no way that there is a 100kg difference in small and big bumpers.
They have a slightly different mount on the wings which is made of plastic, the bumper iron I imagine is pretty similar, the only difference is there is obviously more plastic to the big bumpers, but not 100kgs worth!
This is all from memory so forgive me if I'm wrong. But there is a significant weight disadvantage to the big bumper models.
It's either the bumpers or the hazard warning switch that increased in weight....
tinman0 said:
Matt_N said:
tinman0 said:
Which is odd since the original owner binned the small bumpers and put the 89+ big bumpers on the car, which add something in the order of 100kgs to the weight of the car. And then put an 87 steering wheel on the car??
100kg?Give over
There is no way that there is a 100kg difference in small and big bumpers.
They have a slightly different mount on the wings which is made of plastic, the bumper iron I imagine is pretty similar, the only difference is there is obviously more plastic to the big bumpers, but not 100kgs worth!
This is all from memory so forgive me if I'm wrong. But there is a significant weight disadvantage to the big bumper models.
It's either the bumpers or the hazard warning switch that increased in weight....
I'd imagine when the weight tests were done the small bumper car was non pas, non ew and early models also had smaller brakes, I'd guess that the big bumper car would have had pas, ew and the later bigger brakes which would account for the weight difference.
The other possibility is that you are quoting the weight differences between an 8v and 16v Gti.
Matt_N said:
The models do differ in weight, but all someone has done here is retro fit big bumpers, which no way adds 100kg.
I'd imagine when the weight tests were done the small bumper car was non pas, non ew and early models also had smaller brakes, I'd guess that the big bumper car would have had pas, ew and the later bigger brakes which would account for the weight difference.
The other possibility is that you are quoting the weight differences between an 8v and 16v Gti.
Nope, I checked on 16v weights, and compared 3 door weights. Only major difference is bumpers.I'd imagine when the weight tests were done the small bumper car was non pas, non ew and early models also had smaller brakes, I'd guess that the big bumper car would have had pas, ew and the later bigger brakes which would account for the weight difference.
The other possibility is that you are quoting the weight differences between an 8v and 16v Gti.
Even if brakes did get bigger on later models, it won't account for such a large difference as the 16v already had big brakes early on. The 8v could well have changed later on, but I never kept up on them. The 8v and 16v can be very different beasts underneath.
tinman0 said:
Matt_N said:
The models do differ in weight, but all someone has done here is retro fit big bumpers, which no way adds 100kg.
I'd imagine when the weight tests were done the small bumper car was non pas, non ew and early models also had smaller brakes, I'd guess that the big bumper car would have had pas, ew and the later bigger brakes which would account for the weight difference.
The other possibility is that you are quoting the weight differences between an 8v and 16v Gti.
Nope, I checked on 16v weights, and compared 3 door weights. Only major difference is bumpers.I'd imagine when the weight tests were done the small bumper car was non pas, non ew and early models also had smaller brakes, I'd guess that the big bumper car would have had pas, ew and the later bigger brakes which would account for the weight difference.
The other possibility is that you are quoting the weight differences between an 8v and 16v Gti.
Even if brakes did get bigger on later models, it won't account for such a large difference as the 16v already had big brakes early on. The 8v could well have changed later on, but I never kept up on them. The 8v and 16v can be very different beasts underneath.
Early 16v came with 239mm brakes, they changed over to 256mm with a larger master cylinder sometime in 88, 8v stayed with 239mm throughout.
An early small bumper 16v with no power steering, no electric windows and smaller brakes will be lighter than a big bumper model with power steering, electric windows and bigger brakes, which could be around the 100kg mark.
A late small bumper with power steering, electric windows and the bigger brakes will not be 100kg lighter than the same spec big bumper model.
The only significant weight differences with Mk2 Gti's is 8v vs 16v.
Matt_N said:
tinman0 said:
Matt_N said:
The models do differ in weight, but all someone has done here is retro fit big bumpers, which no way adds 100kg.
I'd imagine when the weight tests were done the small bumper car was non pas, non ew and early models also had smaller brakes, I'd guess that the big bumper car would have had pas, ew and the later bigger brakes which would account for the weight difference.
The other possibility is that you are quoting the weight differences between an 8v and 16v Gti.
Nope, I checked on 16v weights, and compared 3 door weights. Only major difference is bumpers.I'd imagine when the weight tests were done the small bumper car was non pas, non ew and early models also had smaller brakes, I'd guess that the big bumper car would have had pas, ew and the later bigger brakes which would account for the weight difference.
The other possibility is that you are quoting the weight differences between an 8v and 16v Gti.
Even if brakes did get bigger on later models, it won't account for such a large difference as the 16v already had big brakes early on. The 8v could well have changed later on, but I never kept up on them. The 8v and 16v can be very different beasts underneath.
Early 16v came with 239mm brakes, they changed over to 256mm with a larger master cylinder sometime in 88, 8v stayed with 239mm throughout.
An early small bumper 16v with no power steering, no electric windows and smaller brakes will be lighter than a big bumper model with power steering, electric windows and bigger brakes, which could be around the 100kg mark.
A late small bumper with power steering, electric windows and the bigger brakes will not be 100kg lighter than the same spec big bumper model.
The only significant weight differences with Mk2 Gti's is 8v vs 16v.
The figures I used were a late spec 88 model like my own (funny enough) (the one with the big brakes). The later spec 16v's had everything you wanted more or less as standard. PAS became standard sometime in late 88/early 89 iirc. Big bumpers arrived in 89 on a G plate, and that's when weight went up.
If you look carefully, although the last of the 16v's came fully loaded, models before them did not get things like electric windows as standard. EW actually became an optional extra near the end (especially 8vs which had a fair few things robbed from them).
I'll give you PAS, but at the end of the day, the newer 16vs were heavier by 100kg.
And for heavens sake, if you really are a GTI enthusiast, at least write GTI and not Gti. Our's were the original GTIs and didn't need the lower case letters to differentiate them
tinman0 said:
Matt_N said:
tinman0 said:
Matt_N said:
The models do differ in weight, but all someone has done here is retro fit big bumpers, which no way adds 100kg.
I'd imagine when the weight tests were done the small bumper car was non pas, non ew and early models also had smaller brakes, I'd guess that the big bumper car would have had pas, ew and the later bigger brakes which would account for the weight difference.
The other possibility is that you are quoting the weight differences between an 8v and 16v Gti.
Nope, I checked on 16v weights, and compared 3 door weights. Only major difference is bumpers.I'd imagine when the weight tests were done the small bumper car was non pas, non ew and early models also had smaller brakes, I'd guess that the big bumper car would have had pas, ew and the later bigger brakes which would account for the weight difference.
The other possibility is that you are quoting the weight differences between an 8v and 16v Gti.
Even if brakes did get bigger on later models, it won't account for such a large difference as the 16v already had big brakes early on. The 8v could well have changed later on, but I never kept up on them. The 8v and 16v can be very different beasts underneath.
Early 16v came with 239mm brakes, they changed over to 256mm with a larger master cylinder sometime in 88, 8v stayed with 239mm throughout.
An early small bumper 16v with no power steering, no electric windows and smaller brakes will be lighter than a big bumper model with power steering, electric windows and bigger brakes, which could be around the 100kg mark.
A late small bumper with power steering, electric windows and the bigger brakes will not be 100kg lighter than the same spec big bumper model.
The only significant weight differences with Mk2 Gti's is 8v vs 16v.
The figures I used were a late spec 88 model like my own (funny enough) (the one with the big brakes). The later spec 16v's had everything you wanted more or less as standard. PAS became standard sometime in late 88/early 89 iirc. Big bumpers arrived in 89 on a G plate, and that's when weight went up.
The cross over point to big bumper is a grey area too, the offical term is 90 spec and big bumpers were standardised from Jan 1990, but some cars were made with them from Aug 89 apparently, for example my 89 G 16v was small bumpered.
tinman0 said:
If you look carefully, although the last of the 16v's came fully loaded, models before them did not get things like electric windows as standard. EW actually became an optional extra near the end (especially 8vs which had a fair few things robbed from them).
EW were an optional extra from the beginning I did not say otheriwse, in one sentence you say late cars came fully loaded, then you say EW actually became an optional extra near the end, you're mixing yourself up.There were few options to tick on the Mk2 GTI, the most common being:
PAS
EW
Aircon
Leather interior
Recaro interior
tinman0 said:
I'll give you PAS, but at the end of the day, the newer 16vs were heavier by 100kg.
As far as I know there are no structural differences in shells between an early 16v and a 90 spec 16v that would amass to a 100kg difference.Big bumpers do not weight an additional 100kg, the only way there could be such a difference would down to differing options on the car when weighed.
3 of my friends built Mk2 GTI race cars for the 750MC race series, there were two classes based on weight, 8v and 16v. If there was a difference in weight between early 16v and 90 Spec cars there would have had to have been another class for this too.
tinman0 said:
And for heavens sake, if you really are a GTI enthusiast, at least write GTI and not Gti. Our's were the original GTIs and didn't need the lower case letters to differentiate them
Point taken, although in reality the Mk1 was the original GTI.As a fellow GTI enthuasiast I would have expected you to know the differences in brake sizes too
Nice Campaign btw.
Edited by Matt_N on Thursday 6th January 11:40
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff