996 prices post 997........
Discussion
Initially the 997 will hit the recently registered 996 cars as owners look to jump into the new shape to experience and be seen in the 997.
I really think the '98-2000 cars will be largely unaffected for a year until there are enough 997 available in the UK market.
There is not much to compare these cars with for value in the £30-35k range....consider that a new 997 S with a few goodies will be nigh on £70k.....not exactly in the same market as a 30k mile 996 for half the money.
I really think the '98-2000 cars will be largely unaffected for a year until there are enough 997 available in the UK market.
There is not much to compare these cars with for value in the £30-35k range....consider that a new 997 S with a few goodies will be nigh on £70k.....not exactly in the same market as a 30k mile 996 for half the money.
clubsport said:
Initially the 997 will hit the recently registered 996 cars as owners look to jump into the new shape to experience and be seen in the 997.
I really think the '98-2000 cars will be largely unaffected for a year until there are enough 997 available in the UK market.
There is not much to compare these cars with for value in the £30-35k range....consider that a new 997 S with a few goodies will be nigh on £70k.....not exactly in the same market as a 30k mile 996 for half the money.
Flawed logic...the late cars will be hit in value...yes....as these reduce so will cheaper cars.
kamal996 said:
Initially the 997 will hit the recently registered 996 cars as owners look to jump into the new shape to experience and be seen in the 997.
I really think the '98-2000 cars will be largely unaffected for a year until there are enough 997 available in the UK market.
There is not much to compare these cars with for value in the £30-35k range....consider that a new 997 S with a few goodies will be nigh on £70k.....not exactly in the same market as a 30k mile 996 for half the money.
I do beleive there was a time frame mentioned
Interest rates and the state of the economy are likely to have more impact on prices for £30k porsches over the next few months..
Do you really think these cars are gonna go to £25k straight away? Porsche Uk will play their usual games appearing to restrict the supply of 997 for a while.
Flawed logic...the late cars will be hit in value...yes....as these reduce so will cheaper cars.
clubsport said:
clubsport said:
Initially the 997 will hit the recently registered 996 cars as owners look to jump into the new shape to experience and be seen in the 997.
I really think the '98-2000 cars will be largely unaffected for a year until there are enough 997 available in the UK market.
There is not much to compare these cars with for value in the £30-35k range....consider that a new 997 S with a few goodies will be nigh on £70k.....not exactly in the same market as a 30k mile 996 for half the money.
I do beleive there was a time frame mentioned
Interest rates and the state of the economy are likely to have more impact on prices for £30k porsches over the next few months..
Do you really think these cars are gonna go to £25k straight away? Porsche Uk will play their usual games appearing to restrict the supply of 997 for a while.
Flawed logic...the late cars will be hit in value...yes....as these reduce so will cheaper cars.
people buying 70k cars are unlikely to be hard hit by economic factors (except if there is a black wednesday type event). People buying 20-30k on the back of a remortgage will! AND
Dealers will look for any excuse to down value a car...a new model is the ideal excuse. Look at the Boxster market for late cars..its decimated.
Having sold quite a few Porsches privately from a range of £14k-£55k, there are definitely more people who have £30k to spend than there are £50k..a lot of the £70k buyers will use finance anyhow...the £50-60k 996 will have the immediate problem...if you read the post you will find that I am in no way expecting the price of early 996 to rise and the point being made is that the timing of price falls on earlier 996 is the issue.
I got out of an 02 996 profitably on a private sale last year (knew you would love that!) The main reason..I saw £50+k cars being hit by the 997.
Despite the summer i think the Boxster is struggling, the prices appear to have been affected by the recent competition and anticipation of the new model already.
I for one will be happy to pick up a decent 996 to sell on should the prices fall, to me porsche have not been radical enough with the 997 design to KILL the values of an already excellent car that is less than 1/2 the price of a new one IMMEDIATELY.
Note...should I buy a cheap 996,,,it will not be a Tiptronic and it will not have that awful savannah sick coloured interior
I got out of an 02 996 profitably on a private sale last year (knew you would love that!) The main reason..I saw £50+k cars being hit by the 997.
Despite the summer i think the Boxster is struggling, the prices appear to have been affected by the recent competition and anticipation of the new model already.
I for one will be happy to pick up a decent 996 to sell on should the prices fall, to me porsche have not been radical enough with the 997 design to KILL the values of an already excellent car that is less than 1/2 the price of a new one IMMEDIATELY.
Note...should I buy a cheap 996,,,it will not be a Tiptronic and it will not have that awful savannah sick coloured interior
I personally don't think the prices will be affected a great deal more than they would be by normal depreciation. If you look at the 993, the prices have began to overlap, it is possible that this will happen with the early 997's and late 996's.
I believe the lower end of the market is likely to stay just below the £30k mark and the upper end of the market will probably adjust by about 5% compared to what they are now.
I am not a car dealer, so this is all based upon watching the car market for a number of years and my personal opinion.
I believe the lower end of the market is likely to stay just below the £30k mark and the upper end of the market will probably adjust by about 5% compared to what they are now.
I am not a car dealer, so this is all based upon watching the car market for a number of years and my personal opinion.
What clubsport may lack in looks he more than makes up for in common sense !
He is absolutely right when he says that the early cars will be largely unaffected by the 997 launch. A £30k 996 and a brand new £70k 997 are sold to a totally different audience.
As the cars get older the gap between the cheapest and most expensive cars close up with the cheaper cars prices being help up by the models that preceeded them.
We get people looking at a £10k car that simply couldn`t afford to buy a £15k car even if it came with a troupe of dancing bears. The man who has £55k can usually find £65k though.
Quite how a dealer could bring the price of a particular model down is beyond me, one of the joys of an open market is that cars find their own prices. Just because one guy wants to bid peanuts another may want the car and give strong money.
You only have to look back to see how Porsches have de-valued in the past. They reach a point and then remain largely stable all be it with minor fluctuations along the way.
Henry firman. 911virgin.com - group chief economist !!!
He is absolutely right when he says that the early cars will be largely unaffected by the 997 launch. A £30k 996 and a brand new £70k 997 are sold to a totally different audience.
As the cars get older the gap between the cheapest and most expensive cars close up with the cheaper cars prices being help up by the models that preceeded them.
We get people looking at a £10k car that simply couldn`t afford to buy a £15k car even if it came with a troupe of dancing bears. The man who has £55k can usually find £65k though.
Quite how a dealer could bring the price of a particular model down is beyond me, one of the joys of an open market is that cars find their own prices. Just because one guy wants to bid peanuts another may want the car and give strong money.
You only have to look back to see how Porsches have de-valued in the past. They reach a point and then remain largely stable all be it with minor fluctuations along the way.
Henry firman. 911virgin.com - group chief economist !!!
henry-F said:
A £30k 996 and a brand new £70k 997 are sold to a totally different audience.
Henry firman. 911virgin.com - group chief economist !!!
You'll never make an economist...
As you say-the man buying a £55k car can afford a £65k car...so he goes along to see a £55k 996 but sees a nice shiny 997.He buys the 997 as its the latest must have...The 55k car needs to be cheaper-say £50k..this then knocks on to the cars that were £50k and so on.This is exactly what is happening with Boxsters.
I suppose the other issue is supply of the new 997. I keep reading that dealers have 50 to 70 pre ordered cars. I would also guess that many of these orders will result in people jumping from 996s to 997s. This can only result in more of these cars coming onto the market and affecting their residuals.
Finally-dealers setting prices-I disagree that its an open market-I maintain that the great unwashed is willing to pay a "super normal" margin for Porsches. They pay this due to the belief that they will benefit from choice, convenience, warranties, finance and a shoulder to cry on when things go wrong. Henry-you and a handful of specialist dealer make up the "wholesale" market whilst there are great many sellers who have little way of exiting from their vehicles other than to directly or indirectly sell to you. This aysmmetry, together with buyer behaviour (mentioned earlier) set the price. This creates an arbitrage opportunity.
I am not knocking this-you as a classic small trader-(you are not technically an entrepreneur as you are doing anything innovative)-are taking a level of risk by stocking a depreciating asset and deservre a return on your investment for this risk-good luck to you-keep paying taxes-employing people and spending your hard earned cash...it does the UK economy no harm
Kamal, while I agree with what you're saying in the most part about wholesalers being the only ones we can flog our cars to when it comes to selling time, I do believe that we purchase these vehicles with knowledge of this.
I personally don't see this as a problem. We know that running a Porche is not going to be an ecconomical prospect from day one, it's a luxury good.
I also believe that Henry deserves every penny he makes because he, like most car dealers has to give every customer 100% of his effort and time, many of whom will be complete time wasters.
I say this because last year when I was looking for a TT, i called henry and although he didn't have one, he spent a good 30 minutes on the phone explaining the pros and cons of miles/owners/colours etc.
I couldn't imagine doing that six times a day!
Henry, when it comes to selling my Porker, you can have first refusal!
I personally don't see this as a problem. We know that running a Porche is not going to be an ecconomical prospect from day one, it's a luxury good.
I also believe that Henry deserves every penny he makes because he, like most car dealers has to give every customer 100% of his effort and time, many of whom will be complete time wasters.
I say this because last year when I was looking for a TT, i called henry and although he didn't have one, he spent a good 30 minutes on the phone explaining the pros and cons of miles/owners/colours etc.
I couldn't imagine doing that six times a day!
Henry, when it comes to selling my Porker, you can have first refusal!
I agree - Henry bought my 993 off me, and while yes he took a big fat juicy turn out of it, his bid was still 3k better than the OPC, and to be honest, I really had no desire to go through the having 15 tyrekickers turn up at the front door scenario.
car dealers make money, fact of life, i've never met a poor one, but then so does everyone else, theres a bid and offer for all products and services in this world, some people are never happy with being on the receiving end of that, but i'd love to see the same people defending why they make their own living (that's enabled them to buy the bloody porsche in the 1st place!)...
car dealers make money, fact of life, i've never met a poor one, but then so does everyone else, theres a bid and offer for all products and services in this world, some people are never happy with being on the receiving end of that, but i'd love to see the same people defending why they make their own living (that's enabled them to buy the bloody porsche in the 1st place!)...
kamal996 said:
Note...should I buy a cheap 996,,,it will not be a Tiptronic and it will not have that awful savannah sick coloured interior
No...you would let your imagination run wild and buy hmm..lets see....a silver one with black leather...
Ahh but thing is kamal you made a loss selling on your 996, CS made a profit on his & had owned & run it from new for 14months!
Not many people manage to do that, so he might just know what he is on about......
iguana said:
kamal996 said:
clubsport said:
Note...should I buy a cheap 996,,,it will not be a Tiptronic and it will not have that awful savannah sick coloured interior
No...you would let your imagination run wild and buy hmm..lets see....a silver one with black leather...
Ahh but thing is kamal you made a loss selling on your 996, CS made a profit on his & had owned & run it from new for 14months!
Not many people manage to do that, so he might just know what he is on about......
Iguana..how come you suddenly became knowlegeable on what I did and didnt make out of the sale of my 996...
In relation to dealers making money-I have no issue with this at all (i have stated this clearly)
>> Edited by kamal996 on Thursday 20th May 12:06
dds: Your words are my own thinking!
I make my two quid when I sell a set of indicators and nobody would deny me of that I hope. The fact I sell 50,000 sets a year doesn't make me any less deserving of the next man's couple of pounds.
I, like Henry and other car delaers have also taken some nice losses when spending £20K on a tool that makes nothing but crap.
I think the moral of my story is (i always seem to drift off topic!) is that we should stick to what we know.
When it comes to selling my TT, like I've said before, I would be happy to 'lose' £5K on it because i've easily had £5K of fun from it.
Now, can the same be said for an owner who's car is sitting in a cocoon in his garage? No.
I have a suggestion to any owner who likes nothing more than to polish and cherish their car; get a job as a cleaner at your local dealer! The effect will be the same
I make my two quid when I sell a set of indicators and nobody would deny me of that I hope. The fact I sell 50,000 sets a year doesn't make me any less deserving of the next man's couple of pounds.
I, like Henry and other car delaers have also taken some nice losses when spending £20K on a tool that makes nothing but crap.
I think the moral of my story is (i always seem to drift off topic!) is that we should stick to what we know.
When it comes to selling my TT, like I've said before, I would be happy to 'lose' £5K on it because i've easily had £5K of fun from it.
Now, can the same be said for an owner who's car is sitting in a cocoon in his garage? No.
I have a suggestion to any owner who likes nothing more than to polish and cherish their car; get a job as a cleaner at your local dealer! The effect will be the same
)
kamal996 said:
Iguana..how come you suddenly became knowlegeable on what I did and didnt make out of the sale of my 996...
Excuse me for interupting folks, but I must be mistaken in thinking everyone on here is aware of Kamal's quest to sell the 996 and the stupidity of buyers not wanting to purchase a bargain through a private sale?
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