I've just bought some poverty Pork…
Discussion
cabbalisticar said:
Slippydiff said:
There's every chance Hartech were supplied with a bare, long engine to work on. Hence why the figure of £9100 with or without VAT in 2019 seems credible.
I suppose Hartech could've lying when they put those figures on their webpage or they've had their website hacked and someone's substituted erroneous figures, but I'm doubtful.
If you've got an invoice in front of you, perhaps you'd be kind enough to blank out any names/addresses along with any vehicle details and show us the breakdown of Hartech's charges. I for one would like to see a "real world" invoice for a rebuild.
I'm not going to post other people's invoices. There is no plausible way anyone paid £9,100 inc VAT for a full Hartech build in 2019 unless given a preferential rate. Should you wish to believe otherwise, that's up to you.I suppose Hartech could've lying when they put those figures on their webpage or they've had their website hacked and someone's substituted erroneous figures, but I'm doubtful.
If you've got an invoice in front of you, perhaps you'd be kind enough to blank out any names/addresses along with any vehicle details and show us the breakdown of Hartech's charges. I for one would like to see a "real world" invoice for a rebuild.
If you're really concerned, you can contact Hartech and go through the costs. I've done that. I can quote relevant lines from 2019 when I discussed builds with Grant at Hartech. Re a straight 3.4 build:
"£8500 + VAT assuming there’s no additional work such as snapped bolts/fixings, un-serviceable exhaust clamps etc. Surcharges may apply if you have any unserviceable pistons (scored ones) and exchange pistons are subject to availability."
Re the 3.9 conversion:
"This usually costs £13000 + VAT assuming no additional work such as snapped bolts/fixings, un-serviceable exhaust clamps etc. We would also be keeping your existing pistons & crank shaft as part of the deal."
In reality, sub £12k is very unlikely. But £9,100 is no happening.
Like I said, if you want to think £9,100 including VAT is plausible, that's up tom you. It's not and it wasn't in 2019. Or 2015..
The text from the Hartech website can easily be verified.
A deal of some sort may have been done.
This only concerns somebody who is seriously interested in buying the car ... so only truly relevant at that point.
The alternative is that you are potentially querying the integrity of the selling dealer, for what ?
Why ?
ChrisW. said:
I find this very argumentative.
The text from the Hartech website can easily be verified.
A deal of some sort may have been done.
This only concerns somebody who is seriously interested in buying the car ... so only truly relevant at that point.
The alternative is that you are potentially querying the integrity of the selling dealer, for what ?
Why ?
How was I querying the integrity of the dealer? No doubt there is a bill for £9,100. It's not the dealer saying it's precisely x or y spec rebuild. So, as for being argumentative, inferring something that hasn't been implied would be precisely that.The text from the Hartech website can easily be verified.
A deal of some sort may have been done.
This only concerns somebody who is seriously interested in buying the car ... so only truly relevant at that point.
The alternative is that you are potentially querying the integrity of the selling dealer, for what ?
Why ?
What you're not understanding is that the basic menu price is inevitably unlikely to be the actual price. For instance, if any of the pistons are damaged, that's more money. And having seen torn down M96/7 engines at Hartech a few times, the pistons from all the engines I saw were not pretty, worse than the bores. Which isn't to say the menu price is misleading. It covers everything that will definitely be done. It just can't cover extras that will only be identified once work has started.
To be clear, IMO even at £12k it's fantastic value. I just think it's better to be realistic about what the bill is actually going to be. If you bank on £12k you won't be far off unless you have something like a problem with the crank, in which case it'll be more. What it very likely won't be is less.
Incidentally, here's a bill someone posted on PH for just one side of the engine (bank two, obvs), from 2015:
£9k.
RiccardoG said:
For an alternative point of view, what if the engine and ancillaries were removed by a third party (say a specialist down south) and the actual Hartech rebuild invoice was therefore a bit lower than the £12k your friend spent?
If (when!) it comes to re-do my 3.8 the above would likely be my preferred route.
Well, you'd still be paying someone, and if anyone can remove an M96/7 quickly and efficient and have it ready for a rebuild...If (when!) it comes to re-do my 3.8 the above would likely be my preferred route.
Personally, I'd be sending the whole car to Hartech to minimise the chances of any complications. I'd be confident Hartech isn't charging anything close to £3k to remove and refit the engine and unless you removed and refitted yourself, I doubt you'd be saving much money - if any.
cabbalisticar said:
Well, you'd still be paying someone, and if anyone can remove an M96/7 quickly and efficient and have it ready for a rebuild...
Personally, I'd be sending the whole car to Hartech to minimise the chances of any complications. I'd be confident Hartech isn't charging anything close to £3k to remove and refit the engine and unless you removed and refitted yourself, I doubt you'd be saving much money - if any.
Got to disagree with that. I sent my latest 996 engine down to Hartech back in 2017 & i had the guy whos been looking after my porsches since 2006 strip it out, manifolds off, crate it up & put it all back together after.Personally, I'd be sending the whole car to Hartech to minimise the chances of any complications. I'd be confident Hartech isn't charging anything close to £3k to remove and refit the engine and unless you removed and refitted yourself, I doubt you'd be saving much money - if any.
Hartech has a great reputation but there is only o e person who i dont ask how much its going to be
RiccardoG said:
For an alternative point of view, what if the engine and ancillaries were removed by a third party (say a specialist down south) and the actual Hartech rebuild invoice was therefore a bit lower than the £12k your friend spent?
If (when!) it comes to re-do my 3.8 the above would likely be my preferred route.
Hartech charge £1300 to remove and refit your engine. Though some seem to be questioning the validity of their costs ...If (when!) it comes to re-do my 3.8 the above would likely be my preferred route.
Just looked at the posted invoice which states the menu price was £7k back in 2015.
The invoice doesn’t state what the snapped bolts were, could’ve been exhaust manifold bolts, could’ve been main bearing bolts.
But 7 years is a long time in engineering and their main piston/liner supplier has been through a change of ownership (or two) and the product evolved massively, and no doubt Hartech’s processes have been made more efficient too.
Good to see a real bilL.
cabbalisticar said:
To be clear, IMO even at £12k it's fantastic value.
I feel like I live in a different world to everyone else.You can get a set of liners for £350, a set of aftermarket forged pistons for £1200. Let's be generous and say £1000 for gaskets and bearings and other bits. A machine shop would fit the liners for £1000. Another grand to get someone to put it all together once the machining is done. That's £4500. I understand most people would pay a bit more for convenience it all done in one place with a warranty but 12k, fantastic value?
Escy said:
I feel like I live in a different world to everyone else.
You can get a set of liners for £350, a set of aftermarket forged pistons for £1200. Let's be generous and say £1000 for gaskets and bearings and other bits. A machine shop would fit the liners for £1000. Another grand to get someone to put it all together once the machining is done. That's £4500. I understand most people would pay a bit more for convenience it all done in one place with a warranty but 12k, fantastic value?
Caveat : I’ve no skin in the game You can get a set of liners for £350, a set of aftermarket forged pistons for £1200. Let's be generous and say £1000 for gaskets and bearings and other bits. A machine shop would fit the liners for £1000. Another grand to get someone to put it all together once the machining is done. That's £4500. I understand most people would pay a bit more for convenience it all done in one place with a warranty but 12k, fantastic value?
Whilst I’m sure the scenario you’ve described is doable financially, I’m not convinced it would provide the long term reliability a Hartech build does.
Hartech have engineered several solutions to ensure these engines stay in one piece, one of which is effectively making the crankcase and liners a closed deck design. This involves some very accurate machining, which I suspect took a lot of development work to ensure that the relevant components expand at the same (and correct) rates.
This is but one of their M96/97 fixes.
And let’s not forget, that once done, the engines should last many tens of thousands of miles if serviced regularly and properly.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting it’s cheap, nor indeed a “bargain”, but these were £60-70k cars when new 20 years ago, so fixing them unfortunately comes with commensurate bills.
Most of the Porsche independents in the UK, and plenty abroad, won’t/don’t bother attempting to fix the M96/97 units, because put quite simply, it’s not worth the bother “messing around with them”, it’s easier to remove them, and send them to the one stop shop that is Hartech and know that what comes back, when re-installed in the car, with the correct ancillaries replaced, will start and run reliably for many years.
I’ve heard the above from two well known independent Porsche specialists.
If there’s one thing that does surprise me about Hartech’s services, it’s that bearing in mind the not considerable costs involved in fixing them, cars with their engines don’t command a higher premium come resale time.
Slippydiff said:
Caveat : I’ve no skin in the game
Whilst I’m sure the scenario you’ve described is doable financially, I’m not convinced it would provide the long term reliability a Hartech build does.
Hartech have engineered several solutions to ensure these engines stay in one piece, one of which is effectively making the crankcase and liners a closed deck design. This involves some very accurate machining, which I suspect took a lot of development work to ensure that the relevant components expand at the same (and correct) rates.
This is but one of their M96/97 fixes.
And let’s not forget, that once done, the engines should last many tens of thousands of miles if serviced regularly and properly.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting it’s cheap, nor indeed a “bargain”, but these were £60-70k cars when new 20 years ago, so fixing them unfortunately comes with commensurate bills.
Most of the Porsche independents in the UK, and plenty abroad, won’t/don’t bother attempting to fix the M96/97 units, because put quite simply, it’s not worth the bother “messing around with them”, it’s easier to remove them, and send them to the one stop shop that is Hartech and know that what comes back, when re-installed in the car, with the correct ancillaries replaced, will start and run reliably for many years.
I’ve heard the above from two well known independent Porsche specialists.
If there’s one thing that does surprise me about Hartech’s services, it’s that bearing in mind the not considerable costs involved in fixing them, cars with their engines don’t command a higher premium come resale time.
Hartech engined cars seem to attract just a small premium of a few £ks unfortunately IMO over the rest of the market & as Slippy has said the devil is in the detail as to what level of rebuild has been done as it is very much the customer's choice/budget!Whilst I’m sure the scenario you’ve described is doable financially, I’m not convinced it would provide the long term reliability a Hartech build does.
Hartech have engineered several solutions to ensure these engines stay in one piece, one of which is effectively making the crankcase and liners a closed deck design. This involves some very accurate machining, which I suspect took a lot of development work to ensure that the relevant components expand at the same (and correct) rates.
This is but one of their M96/97 fixes.
And let’s not forget, that once done, the engines should last many tens of thousands of miles if serviced regularly and properly.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting it’s cheap, nor indeed a “bargain”, but these were £60-70k cars when new 20 years ago, so fixing them unfortunately comes with commensurate bills.
Most of the Porsche independents in the UK, and plenty abroad, won’t/don’t bother attempting to fix the M96/97 units, because put quite simply, it’s not worth the bother “messing around with them”, it’s easier to remove them, and send them to the one stop shop that is Hartech and know that what comes back, when re-installed in the car, with the correct ancillaries replaced, will start and run reliably for many years.
I’ve heard the above from two well known independent Porsche specialists.
If there’s one thing that does surprise me about Hartech’s services, it’s that bearing in mind the not considerable costs involved in fixing them, cars with their engines don’t command a higher premium come resale time.
MrC986 said:
Hartech engined cars seem to attract just a small premium of a few £ks unfortunately IMO over the rest of the market & as Slippy has said the devil is in the detail as to what level of rebuild has been done as it is very much the customer's choice/budget!
Which means we should be buying cars with these engines done instead of having them done ourselves.ATM said:
Which means we should be buying cars with these engines done instead of having them done ourselves.
In theory you are correct, in reality if someone is going to spend £12K on a £20K car just to get the engine done then they are likely an enthusiast or have a personal connection to the car. I have no idea how many engines they do per year but you don't see them coming to the market that often, so that suggests they are being kept.I've said it before the good ones are being held onto because £20K is not going to make any difference to those that have them life & there is also the feeling that the value is going to rocket at some point.
Add to that what else would you rather have as a weekend car for £20K
Escy said:
I feel like I live in a different world to everyone else.
You can get a set of liners for £350, a set of aftermarket forged pistons for £1200. Let's be generous and say £1000 for gaskets and bearings and other bits. A machine shop would fit the liners for £1000. Another grand to get someone to put it all together once the machining is done. That's £4500. I understand most people would pay a bit more for convenience it all done in one place with a warranty but 12k, fantastic value?
Well, Hartech also rework the block re coolant flow, convert to closed deck using high quality Nikasil liners, refresh pretty much everything - new chains, IMS, refurbed / skimmed head with valve lapping and decoking etc etc. Plus they have a mini factory assembly line and have the process tightly controlled doing the same thing over and over, they've done thousands of these engines at this point, far less chance of an error versus a generalist place doing the odd build, I would say.You can get a set of liners for £350, a set of aftermarket forged pistons for £1200. Let's be generous and say £1000 for gaskets and bearings and other bits. A machine shop would fit the liners for £1000. Another grand to get someone to put it all together once the machining is done. That's £4500. I understand most people would pay a bit more for convenience it all done in one place with a warranty but 12k, fantastic value?
And then if you have an issue in short order, you'd be confident Hartech will sort it.
If you just want some steel liners, that's fine. But you are getting a lot more for your money with a Hartech build. Just depends on what you value. I wouldn't want to spend even £5k getting steel liners fitted.
IMO, given all the engineering work, it also looks very, very cheap when an air-cooled engine specialist will charge you £30k, £40k whatever to bolt some bits together. So, with all that in mind I do genuinely think you're getting fantastic value from Hartech. Just not for £9k, sadly!
jonny996 said:
Got to disagree with that. I sent my latest 996 engine down to Hartech back in 2017 & i had the guy whos been looking after my porsches since 2006 strip it out, manifolds off, crate it up & put it all back together after.
Hartech has a great reputation but there is only o e person who i dont ask how much its going to be
Well, it's easy enough to find out how much Hartech will deduct for not doing the removal and refit and how much you'll be charged by your preferred indy for the removal and refit. Personally, once I'm paying £10k plus I'd far rather have the shop doing the engine do the lot - get it up and running and sort any issues - than risk having any back and forth if there are problems.Hartech has a great reputation but there is only o e person who i dont ask how much its going to be
Again, they're pulling these engines in and out, day in, day out. Surely, they have they process utterly nailed by now and will be as efficient and cost effective at that bit as pretty much anyone? I'd be surprised if it was dramatically cheaper to pay someone else to do that bit.
I mean, apart from maybe saving a couple of hundred, at best, what's the advantage?
jonny996 said:
In theory you are correct, in reality if someone is going to spend £12K on a £20K car just to get the engine done then they are likely an enthusiast or have a personal connection to the car. I have no idea how many engines they do per year but you don't see them coming to the market that often, so that suggests they are being kept.
They have about 20 in build at any one time, or did in 2019 last time I spoke to them.I think it's several hundred a year, 200 to 300 roughly I think, but am not absolutely certain about that bit. But bear in mind that they are doing builds for a global audience, so only some are going into UK cars. The most comparable alternative is Jake Raby / Flat Six innovations in the US and that shop has a huge waiting list and charges a lot more for a similar product.
IIRC Raby charges about $25k.
Slippydiff said:
If there’s one thing that does surprise me about Hartech’s services, it’s that bearing in mind the not considerable costs involved in fixing them, cars with their engines don’t command a higher premium come resale time.
This.I think the scrutiny applied to any "rebuild" is valid because it has many different interpretations. But if you find a full Hartech rebuild car, it won't fetch anything like the £12k+ premium. Baz's own 996 C4S was on the market a few years ago and the premium for the full rebuild was something like £3k over a non-rebuild car.
When I was looking at this a few years ago, I concluded that the way to add value was to go up to a 3.7 and pay the additional cost at Hartech but then I'd have been £27k-ish into a car "worth" £15k. The market just doesn't (yet) see the rebuild as the same value add that we would. I've not driven one of the larger capacity cars but tend to think the additional torque would really suit the car.
ferrisbueller said:
Slippydiff said:
If there’s one thing that does surprise me about Hartech’s services, it’s that bearing in mind the not considerable costs involved in fixing them, cars with their engines don’t command a higher premium come resale time.
This.I think the scrutiny applied to any "rebuild" is valid because it has many different interpretations.
It is a shame that Hartech doesn't offer a "gold" standard, with a certificate and warranty, perhaps that would help the value of a car come resale.
cabbalisticar said:
ChrisW. said:
I find this very argumentative.
The text from the Hartech website can easily be verified.
A deal of some sort may have been done.
This only concerns somebody who is seriously interested in buying the car ... so only truly relevant at that point.
The alternative is that you are potentially querying the integrity of the selling dealer, for what ?
Why ?
How was I querying the integrity of the dealer? No doubt there is a bill for £9,100. It's not the dealer saying it's precisely x or y spec rebuild. So, as for being argumentative, inferring something that hasn't been implied would be precisely that.The text from the Hartech website can easily be verified.
A deal of some sort may have been done.
This only concerns somebody who is seriously interested in buying the car ... so only truly relevant at that point.
The alternative is that you are potentially querying the integrity of the selling dealer, for what ?
Why ?
What you're not understanding is that the basic menu price is inevitably unlikely to be the actual price. For instance, if any of the pistons are damaged, that's more money. And having seen torn down M96/7 engines at Hartech a few times, the pistons from all the engines I saw were not pretty, worse than the bores. Which isn't to say the menu price is misleading. It covers everything that will definitely be done. It just can't cover extras that will only be identified once work has started.
To be clear, IMO even at £12k it's fantastic value. I just think it's better to be realistic about what the bill is actually going to be. If you bank on £12k you won't be far off unless you have something like a problem with the crank, in which case it'll be more. What it very likely won't be is less.
Incidentally, here's a bill someone posted on PH for just one side of the engine (bank two, obvs), from 2015:
£9k.
Escy said:
cabbalisticar said:
To be clear, IMO even at £12k it's fantastic value.
I feel like I live in a different world to everyone else.You can get a set of liners for £350, a set of aftermarket forged pistons for £1200. Let's be generous and say £1000 for gaskets and bearings and other bits. A machine shop would fit the liners for £1000. Another grand to get someone to put it all together once the machining is done. That's £4500. I understand most people would pay a bit more for convenience it all done in one place with a warranty but 12k, fantastic value?
I know maintaining these cars not cheap but I find any figure over 6-7k is a bit too much, for their overall value, they are not that rare.
I found this rather interesting comparison of the 9A1 DFI engine by comparison to the M96 and M97 ....
This article is intended to provide a brief, technical description of the Porsche 9a1 engine. Its design is robust and advanced.
Main Differences from Predecessor M96 & M97 One of the main differences from the predecessors M96 & M97 is that the 9a1 engine has no IMS bearing or shaft. The timing chains on 9a1 engine are located on the front of engine for both banks as well as a small chain to drive the oil pump. Because of this configuration the chains are longer and the timing chain speed is faster. The engine block in the 9a1 engine is a monolithic-alusil (alloy material commonly used in sleeveless engine blocks, mostly used by German auto manufactures) with integral cylinders. Its weakness is that it is not very forgiving to overheating and cannot be welded; however, its design is robust and powerful. The 9a1 has 8 main bearings as opposed to 7 on the M96 & M97 engine. The crankshaft of the 9a1 is forged and nitro-carburized heat treated with a .015 depth (as opposed to the M96 & M97 has heat treating of .003). The crankshaft has 12 counterweights and 63mm main bearing journals. Number 2,4,6 main bearing journals are grooved to supply oil;
the rest are smooth. All timing chains and the oil pump drive run off the front of the crankshaft. There is no crankshaft carrier in the 9a1 engine. The main bearings are built into the block. The engine block has a closed deck design as opposed to the open deck of the M96 & M97. Just to note, the closed deck design is more robust; however, comes with higher coolant temperatures and higher oil temps under heavy load.
Pistons in the 9a1 are forged. The top ring land on the piston is hard anodized to handle the increased pressure due to the DFI (Direct Fuel Injection). On the bottom of the pistons are oil squirters for cooling. The compression ratio of the engine is 12.0:1. The oiling system on the 9a1 is an integral dry sump with 4 scavenger pumps. Oil pressure is controlled by the DME (Digital Motor Electronics) on demand. The DME recognizes combustion and responds with the correct oil pressure. The returning oil coming out of the scavenge pumps will be foamy and needs to de-aerate, which is done directly out of oil of the pump in anti-foam swirl pots.
HEADS/CAMSHAFT The 9a1 heads are die-cast (not sand cast), which is a good method of limiting and/or eliminating porosity issues and maintains more exact tolerances since the metal is forced into the die under high pressure; however, as a result they cannot be welded. There is no lifter carrier in the heads. The lifter bores are integral to the head. All 9a1s are variocam plus. The camshaft has hardly any duration but has huge lift and ramp speed. The camshafts are shorter on B2 because the fuel pump drives off bank 1. There are stronger cam caps, stronger gears (2014+ have module cam lobes like a 904 or a 4 cam Carrera). There is 5 mm more valve lift on 911 9a1 as opposed to the 9a1 Boxster and Cayman. Valves are bi-metallic with a 6mm stem and dual valve springs. Valve guides are short 31.75 mm or 1.25” long and made of manganese (Mn). The head gasket is a multilayer steel, coated with heat resistant plastic. Thermal heat transfer is good. There are coolant stabilizers to maintain and even coolant flow balance in the engine block. The water pump is a closed impeller, pretty much overkill but nice to have. DIRECT FUEL INJECTION
Fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber under extremely high pressure (between 1400-1740 psi). Fuel pressure can only be checked using Porsche Scan Tool (PIWIS or equivalent tool). As previously noted, the fuel pump is driven off the front of the engine B1, exhaust cam. Advantages of DFI are that engines can have a higher compression ratio and run leaner mixtures. The stratified fuel charge does not require long idle periods to warm up the engine. CONCLUSION Best thing to do is go buy one, start the car and drive. Keep the RPMs under 3k until the engine warms up, which does not take long. Note: slow drives at low RPM are an unhealthy diet for this engine. Burn good fuel and drive hard. That is what this engine needs and loves.
This article is intended to provide a brief, technical description of the Porsche 9a1 engine. Its design is robust and advanced.
Main Differences from Predecessor M96 & M97 One of the main differences from the predecessors M96 & M97 is that the 9a1 engine has no IMS bearing or shaft. The timing chains on 9a1 engine are located on the front of engine for both banks as well as a small chain to drive the oil pump. Because of this configuration the chains are longer and the timing chain speed is faster. The engine block in the 9a1 engine is a monolithic-alusil (alloy material commonly used in sleeveless engine blocks, mostly used by German auto manufactures) with integral cylinders. Its weakness is that it is not very forgiving to overheating and cannot be welded; however, its design is robust and powerful. The 9a1 has 8 main bearings as opposed to 7 on the M96 & M97 engine. The crankshaft of the 9a1 is forged and nitro-carburized heat treated with a .015 depth (as opposed to the M96 & M97 has heat treating of .003). The crankshaft has 12 counterweights and 63mm main bearing journals. Number 2,4,6 main bearing journals are grooved to supply oil;
the rest are smooth. All timing chains and the oil pump drive run off the front of the crankshaft. There is no crankshaft carrier in the 9a1 engine. The main bearings are built into the block. The engine block has a closed deck design as opposed to the open deck of the M96 & M97. Just to note, the closed deck design is more robust; however, comes with higher coolant temperatures and higher oil temps under heavy load.
Pistons in the 9a1 are forged. The top ring land on the piston is hard anodized to handle the increased pressure due to the DFI (Direct Fuel Injection). On the bottom of the pistons are oil squirters for cooling. The compression ratio of the engine is 12.0:1. The oiling system on the 9a1 is an integral dry sump with 4 scavenger pumps. Oil pressure is controlled by the DME (Digital Motor Electronics) on demand. The DME recognizes combustion and responds with the correct oil pressure. The returning oil coming out of the scavenge pumps will be foamy and needs to de-aerate, which is done directly out of oil of the pump in anti-foam swirl pots.
HEADS/CAMSHAFT The 9a1 heads are die-cast (not sand cast), which is a good method of limiting and/or eliminating porosity issues and maintains more exact tolerances since the metal is forced into the die under high pressure; however, as a result they cannot be welded. There is no lifter carrier in the heads. The lifter bores are integral to the head. All 9a1s are variocam plus. The camshaft has hardly any duration but has huge lift and ramp speed. The camshafts are shorter on B2 because the fuel pump drives off bank 1. There are stronger cam caps, stronger gears (2014+ have module cam lobes like a 904 or a 4 cam Carrera). There is 5 mm more valve lift on 911 9a1 as opposed to the 9a1 Boxster and Cayman. Valves are bi-metallic with a 6mm stem and dual valve springs. Valve guides are short 31.75 mm or 1.25” long and made of manganese (Mn). The head gasket is a multilayer steel, coated with heat resistant plastic. Thermal heat transfer is good. There are coolant stabilizers to maintain and even coolant flow balance in the engine block. The water pump is a closed impeller, pretty much overkill but nice to have. DIRECT FUEL INJECTION
Fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber under extremely high pressure (between 1400-1740 psi). Fuel pressure can only be checked using Porsche Scan Tool (PIWIS or equivalent tool). As previously noted, the fuel pump is driven off the front of the engine B1, exhaust cam. Advantages of DFI are that engines can have a higher compression ratio and run leaner mixtures. The stratified fuel charge does not require long idle periods to warm up the engine. CONCLUSION Best thing to do is go buy one, start the car and drive. Keep the RPMs under 3k until the engine warms up, which does not take long. Note: slow drives at low RPM are an unhealthy diet for this engine. Burn good fuel and drive hard. That is what this engine needs and loves.
For some insight into the realistic cost of an oversized Hartech build, someone posted a youtube vid about their experience recently re a 996.1 3.4 to 3.7 conversion.
Engine work was £17,750 ex VAT, £21,300 inc VAT. Owner said the build required a few extras that wouldn't always be needed that added about £1,000 but that realistically there will always be some extras so his bill was fairly 'normal'. He also had some 200 cell cats fitted and there were a few additional sundry items. Total bill was just under £23,000.
https://youtu.be/Vu3xzDC6VI4?t=1064
When I was looking into it for a 987.1 3.4 to 3.9, I concluded it would be about £18k inc VAT including some better headers as the 987.1 3.4 headers are a significant bottleneck on the factor 3.4 capacity, let alone a 3.9 conversion. You see talk of, 'ooh, get it Hartech oversized for £12k' etc. Like the £9k full rebuild, I think that's unrealistic.
Engine work was £17,750 ex VAT, £21,300 inc VAT. Owner said the build required a few extras that wouldn't always be needed that added about £1,000 but that realistically there will always be some extras so his bill was fairly 'normal'. He also had some 200 cell cats fitted and there were a few additional sundry items. Total bill was just under £23,000.
https://youtu.be/Vu3xzDC6VI4?t=1064
When I was looking into it for a 987.1 3.4 to 3.9, I concluded it would be about £18k inc VAT including some better headers as the 987.1 3.4 headers are a significant bottleneck on the factor 3.4 capacity, let alone a 3.9 conversion. You see talk of, 'ooh, get it Hartech oversized for £12k' etc. Like the £9k full rebuild, I think that's unrealistic.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff