I've just bought some poverty Pork…

[drjdog]

kingston12 said:

How much would you budget for a full suspension refresh on a 987? I had new front springs on mine last year, but the rest of it is original on a 14 year old car. It's low mileage and still feels fine to me, but I often wonder if it has deteriorated a bit without me noticing it.

The indy that drove it last year didn't pick up on anything though.

I just had mine done (with H&R M030 springs, which were slightly cheaper than OEM standard springs).

Bilstein B4 all round £750 from design911, springs were £250, but I think you can get them cheaper elsewhere, and work was just under £500.

[edc]

Track rod end.
Drop links.
Top mount bearings.
Eccentric bolts.
Other miscellaneous bolts.

[ATM]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I bought some TRW arms for my 981. Then realised they are different front to back. The back ones are shared with the 9x6/7. Searched high and low for a TRW 9x6/7 arm but couldn't find one.

They use the same casting but the bush is different.

My original arms had the same number cast onto them as the TRW arm.

[edh]

2Btoo said:

Ever the way, but you've put that nice and succinctly - thanks. I happen to prefer preventative replacement when worn but others will differ.

My old 944 was at 230,000 and drove excellently when I put it into storage. Largely due to a recent cylinder head overhaul and full suspension refresh. Both made a world of difference. I think the suspension on the Cayman will be up for a replacement soon - possibly next summer. It doesn't seem to be too hard a job.

Oli - there are some bits that are a pain for a DIY job - the drop links seize in the hub, and the eccentric bolts can be seized in the suspension arms. Apart from that it's pretty straightforward

[2Btoo]

edh said:

2Btoo said:

Ever the way, but you've put that nice and succinctly - thanks. I happen to prefer preventative replacement when worn but others will differ.

My old 944 was at 230,000 and drove excellently when I put it into storage. Largely due to a recent cylinder head overhaul and full suspension refresh. Both made a world of difference. I think the suspension on the Cayman will be up for a replacement soon - possibly next summer. It doesn't seem to be too hard a job.

Oli - there are some bits that are a pain for a DIY job - the drop links seize in the hub, and the eccentric bolts can be seized in the suspension arms. Apart from that it's pretty straightforward

Ah, the nice chap who comprehensively ruined the 944 cylinder head before selling it to me! I keep on forgetting that you have experience of 986's (or was it 987's?)

Thanks. Comparison of 944 with Cayman is interesting. The suspension on the latter is more sophisticated but it does look like it's just a bunch of big bolts to undo it all. I've heard about the bits seizing but are they anything that is beyond a bit of heat and/or PlusGas? The car currently drives well but there is what sounds like a loose rattle on the front N/S suspension which I've not got to the bottom of; it could be something loose or a bush somewhere getting a bit knock-y. However the comments about things wearing out slowly but the cumulative effect being significant are relevant and it may be simpler to just replace a bunch of stuff and enjoy the end result. Snagaroo is that the car has PASM so the dampers are pricey. Still, it's a project to be put into next year for sure; I've recently bought this car and can't justify big money spent on it so soon!

[edh]

2Btoo said:

Ah, the nice chap who comprehensively ruined the 944 cylinder head before selling it to me! I keep on forgetting that you have experience of 986's (or was it 987's?)

Thanks. Comparison of 944 with Cayman is interesting. The suspension on the latter is more sophisticated but it does look like it's just a bunch of big bolts to undo it all. I've heard about the bits seizing but are they anything that is beyond a bit of heat and/or PlusGas? The car currently drives well but there is what sounds like a loose rattle on the front N/S suspension which I've not got to the bottom of; it could be something loose or a bush somewhere getting a bit knock-y. However the comments about things wearing out slowly but the cumulative effect being significant are relevant and it may be simpler to just replace a bunch of stuff and enjoy the end result. Snagaroo is that the car has PASM so the dampers are pricey. Still, it's a project to be put into next year for sure; I've recently bought this car and can't justify big money spent on it so soon!

Sold it? I almost gave it away.. (and delivered it too!) btw I sold my 986 and bought a 996 - but they are very similar mechanically.

My 986 noise guide..
rattle = drop links
creak = coffin arm
snooker balls = tuning fork

I did a fairly comprehensive suspension job on my 90k mile 986 - it certainly improved things.

I've seen some people have to get saws to cut off the eccentric bolts (one of mine was a real pain but I managed to free at after about 2 hours of heat, fluids, bashing and cursing). Impact wrenches & heat seem good on the remains of old drop links. But you may be lucky...

[NelsonM3]

edc said:

I wouldn't worry about it. My first Boxster I bought with 58k on it and my second came to me with 105k already on the clock and now 120k. You can worry about these things all day long but most things will sell at the right price if you ever want to change.

In my experience, a Porsche with 130,000 miles will be in better nick that one with 50,000 miles as the common items will already have been replaced. I would have no issues buying another 100,000+ car.

[edc]

NelsonM3 said:

edc said:

I wouldn't worry about it. My first Boxster I bought with 58k on it and my second came to me with 105k already on the clock and now 120k. You can worry about these things all day long but most things will sell at the right price if you ever want to change.

In my experience, a Porsche with 130,000 miles will be in better nick that one with 50,000 miles as the common items will already have been replaced. I would have no issues buying another 100,000+ car.

I wouldn't be so sure on a Boxster. I did full suspension and brake overhaul on both mine within 5k ish of buying them. The first lower mile car didn't need a coolant tank, bleed valve, fuel pump, alternator, headlight switch, gear cables. I also did a preventative change of clutch and water pump. The fuel pump was the only thing that really left me standing.

High mile is fine if you can show the work has been done. Don't bank on it or assume it has though. Phrases such as never wanted for anything, everything done at service do not mean that things won't break. Most owners won't stay ahead of the curve to change before it breaks though.

[ATM]

edc said:

NelsonM3 said:

edc said:

I wouldn't worry about it. My first Boxster I bought with 58k on it and my second came to me with 105k already on the clock and now 120k. You can worry about these things all day long but most things will sell at the right price if you ever want to change.

In my experience, a Porsche with 130,000 miles will be in better nick that one with 50,000 miles as the common items will already have been replaced. I would have no issues buying another 100,000+ car.

I wouldn't be so sure on a Boxster. I did full suspension and brake overhaul on both mine within 5k ish of buying them. The first lower mile car didn't need a coolant tank, bleed valve, fuel pump, alternator, headlight switch, gear cables. I also did a preventative change of clutch and water pump. The fuel pump was the only thing that really left me standing.

High mile is fine if you can show the work has been done. Don't bank on it or assume it has though. Phrases such as never wanted for anything, everything done at service do not mean that things won't break. Most owners won't stay ahead of the curve to change before it breaks though.

Going all in on a suspension refresh is not the norm though with most boxster owners at this end of the market. Most will just want the pretty Porsche to show off or tick some box. They will repair or replace items as they wear out but only because they need to. Normally enthusiast owners do this work and mention it in their ads. Some cars may have full refreshes completed if serviced by a decent indie and this might not be mentioned in an ad but will hopefully be there is the history or paperwork.

[jimmsy]

I'm going to be testing this 100k sale talk soon as I will look to sell my 987.1 CS which has just ticked over 98k in the next few weeks. It's in great condition and has all the age related stuff done, but I still think a lot of sellers will be scared away. Any 987.1 at 12+ years is at risk of pipes (coolant crossover, brake hard lines, air con pipes and joints, power steering) having aged and needing a refresh, as well as the suspension bushes (tie rods, coffin arms etc.). Most of that I'd think is regardless of miles, and more how it's been used and stored (environment) rather than how long it spent moving on the road (miles).

I'll come back and let you guys know if I manage to sell!

[ATM]

jimmsy said:

I'm going to be testing this 100k sale talk soon as I will look to sell my 987.1 CS which has just ticked over 98k in the next few weeks. It's in great condition and has all the age related stuff done, but I still think a lot of sellers will be scared away. Any 987.1 at 12+ years is at risk of pipes (coolant crossover, brake hard lines, air con pipes and joints, power steering) having aged and needing a refresh, as well as the suspension bushes (tie rods, coffin arms etc.). Most of that I'd think is regardless of miles, and more how it's been used and stored (environment) rather than how long it spent moving on the road (miles).

I'll come back and let you guys know if I manage to sell!

Keep us posted. Cars will always sell if the price is right. Unfortunately the majority of buyers want perfect cars for very little money and everyone in the know understands that a Porsche of this era has lots of risks over and above those you have mentioned. But saying all that if you want one and I mean really want one then you have to buy one right. So the market price should reflect the simple economics of buyers who will part with money versus sellers who will sell their cars for the given price.

As we cant see the ad what do you think the fair value is and how much are you going to be asking for?

[jimmsy]

ATM said:

Keep us posted. Cars will always sell if the price is right. Unfortunately the majority of buyers want perfect cars for very little money and everyone in the know understands that a Porsche of this era has lots of risks over and above those you have mentioned. But saying all that if you want one and I mean really want one then you have to buy one right. So the market price should reflect the simple economics of buyers who will part with money versus sellers who will sell their cars for the given price.

As we cant see the ad what do you think the fair value is and how much are you going to be asking for?

I haven't popped it up for sale yet, getting the wheels stripped down and properly refurbed first (been on my to-do list for years!).

I'm not sure on mine, it has some good options and the only aftermarket thing is a steering wheel retrim from Royal Steering Wheels. It's got PASM, Porsche Short Shift Kit, Cruise, Extended Leather, standard stereo and no nav, heated seats, Carrera Classic 19s, and Full OPC service history (over serviced in my 3 years ownership - minor, minor, major). For me it's anywhere between £10k and £14k based on the other cars for sale, but those are for sale and haven't sold. I might start higher up in that range and see the interest and then lower as required. At least I'm self aware I'm clueless with the value. Great car actually, never had any drivetrain issues at all, and sips away at the oil. It's all about the right buyer being out there.

[2Btoo]

jimmsy said:

I haven't popped it up for sale yet, getting the wheels stripped down and properly refurbed first (been on my to-do list for years!).

I'm not sure on mine, it has some good options and the only aftermarket thing is a steering wheel retrim from Royal Steering Wheels. It's got PASM, Porsche Short Shift Kit, Cruise, Extended Leather, standard stereo and no nav, heated seats, Carrera Classic 19s, and Full OPC service history (over serviced in my 3 years ownership - minor, minor, major). For me it's anywhere between £10k and £14k based on the other cars for sale, but those are for sale and haven't sold. I might start higher up in that range and see the interest and then lower as required. At least I'm self aware I'm clueless with the value. Great car actually, never had any drivetrain issues at all, and sips away at the oil. It's all about the right buyer being out there.

All the best with the sale. If it had been up 6 months ago then I'd have been interested as it sounds very similar to the spec of the one I purchased (extended leather, PASM, heated seats, no nav etc). FWIW I paid £9600 for mine. I posted an indecision thread about it here:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Oops - just seen yours is a CS, mine is just a 2.7! Ignore anything I said about price ....

Edited by 2Btoo on Wednesday 30th October 23:11

[ATM]

jimmsy said:

ATM said:

Keep us posted. Cars will always sell if the price is right. Unfortunately the majority of buyers want perfect cars for very little money and everyone in the know understands that a Porsche of this era has lots of risks over and above those you have mentioned. But saying all that if you want one and I mean really want one then you have to buy one right. So the market price should reflect the simple economics of buyers who will part with money versus sellers who will sell their cars for the given price.

As we cant see the ad what do you think the fair value is and how much are you going to be asking for?

I haven't popped it up for sale yet, getting the wheels stripped down and properly refurbed first (been on my to-do list for years!).

I'm not sure on mine, it has some good options and the only aftermarket thing is a steering wheel retrim from Royal Steering Wheels. It's got PASM, Porsche Short Shift Kit, Cruise, Extended Leather, standard stereo and no nav, heated seats, Carrera Classic 19s, and Full OPC service history (over serviced in my 3 years ownership - minor, minor, major). For me it's anywhere between £10k and £14k based on the other cars for sale, but those are for sale and haven't sold. I might start higher up in that range and see the interest and then lower as required. At least I'm self aware I'm clueless with the value. Great car actually, never had any drivetrain issues at all, and sips away at the oil. It's all about the right buyer being out there.

Yes and finding him. But if there are lots of cars for sale then just bear in mind lots of the sellers may feel the same about their cars as you do about yours. Most Porsche cars are cherished by caring owners. Most still believe theirs is good if not better than most of the others for sale etc And they are all looking for the same buyer or buyers. It could come down to location or colour scheme. Stay positive. Worst case you still get to keep it.

[ooid]

Some expected poverty pork results from the SWVA Auction last week...

2002 Boxster s (87.000 miles) £3800.00
https://www.swva.co.uk/classic-car/porsche-boxster...

1982 928 SAuto (92.000 miles) £7000.00 - Fairly Clean!
https://www.swva.co.uk/classic-car/porsche-928-s-a...

944 S2 (155k miles!) and 1973 911 Carrera 3 coupe (114k miles) did not sold.. Actually, this is the second time I've seen this air-cooled in the auction and decided to let it go... but it did not!

[2Btoo]

ooid said:

Some expected poverty pork results from the SWVA Auction last week...

2002 Boxster s (87.000 miles) £3800.00
https://www.swva.co.uk/classic-car/porsche-boxster...

1982 928 SAuto (92.000 miles) £7000.00 - Fairly Clean!
https://www.swva.co.uk/classic-car/porsche-928-s-a...

944 S2 (155k miles!) and 1973 911 Carrera 3 coupe (114k miles) did not sold.. Actually, this is the second time I've seen this air-cooled in the auction and decided to let it go... but it did not!

Wow - that 928 doesn't look too bad! That would possibly have been a better choice for me to avoid ULEZ than the Cayman I just bought.

[ATM]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There is some science to this because bore scoring seems most prevalent on the 987 3.4 and the 997 3.8 which is controversial I know so instead we could argue it became more common once the 20k servicing intervals were brought in. I can understand the simple argument for better oil is better for an engine, it's hard to argue against that. Similarly the engineering explanations behind why these engines score doesn't feel fixable simply adding better oil.

[peterg1955]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

20k interval servicing came started for MY2004 cars, my 2002 996.2 was/is on 10k intervals

[ATM]

peterg1955 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

20k interval servicing came started for MY2004 cars, my 2002 996.2 was/is on 10k intervals

I think some of the 986 and 996 are euro 4 and this is why - maybe.

[ianwayne]

ooid said:

Some expected poverty pork results from the SWVA Auction last week...

2002 Boxster s (87.000 miles) £3800.00
https://www.swva.co.uk/classic-car/porsche-boxster...

1982 928 SAuto (92.000 miles) £7000.00 - Fairly Clean!
https://www.swva.co.uk/classic-car/porsche-928-s-a...

944 S2 (155k miles!) and 1973 911 Carrera 3 coupe (114k miles) did not sold.. Actually, this is the second time I've seen this air-cooled in the auction and decided to let it go... but it did not!

I was at that auction, I looked at the Boxster S (not to buy but for reference since I have a 2.7 ). It was in fairly good condition, the rear window was VERY cloudy though. The MoT advisories kept the price down I reckon:

Repair as soon as possible (minor defects):
Nearside Registration plate lamp inoperative in the case of multiple lamps or light sources (4.7.1 (b) (i))

Monitor and repair if necessary (advisories):
Nearside Front Brake pipe corroded, covered in grease or other material to rear x2 (1.1.11 (c))
Nearside Rear Tyre worn close to legal limit/worn on edge (5.2.3 (e))
Offside Rear Tyre worn close to legal limit/worn on edge (5.2.3 (e))
Offside Front Coil spring corroded (5.3.1 (b) (i))
all brake discs rusty