I've just bought some poverty Pork…

[Fast Bug]

It's a 3.9, but yeah the price is rather punchy

[ferrisbueller]

Baz's old C4S was up for a lot less not that long ago.

[Andyoz]

Fast Bug said:

It's a 3.9, but yeah the price is rather punchy

Yep, they're trying to get most of the rebuild cost back. Doesn't work that way

[skinny]

If anyone is a member on the 996 owner's FB group, someone is selling their blue 2000 C2 manual, 123k miles. Has had £8k hartech rebuild at 82k miles. Needs a little tidying up but...
He wants £7k for it so you'd better be quick.

[Luke.]

skinny said:

If anyone is a member on the 996 owner's FB group, someone is selling their blue 2000 C2 manual, 123k miles. Has had £8k hartech rebuild at 82k miles. Needs a little tidying up but...
He wants £7k for it so you'd better be quick.

Tried to join the group as was looking to buy a 996 and wanted to see what was for sale on there, but they refused as I wasn't an existing owner with a 996 in my profile pic. I can only imagine what a bunch of cocks they must be on there.

[ATM]

Andyoz said:

Fast Bug said:

It's a 3.9, but yeah the price is rather punchy

Yep, they're trying to get most of the rebuild cost back. Doesn't work that way

In his ad he states 13.5k cost for the conversion. That is cheaper than I was expecting. Confusing why so many people have Hartech rebuilt engines but we've never seen a 3.9 here. Lots of talk about low down torque but surely we like a bit of top end fizz.

[edc]

I think the market reality is that there isn't really a big market for bigger engine rebuilds. Autofarm have been doing the 3.7 for many years already. There are others out there that do similar too. I think 9 Excellence have been doing them too. I would guess most people buying a 986/996 are looking for value. As much as some could probably just go out and buy a new 991 or spend £50k on a newer model most have deliberately chosen at this price point and begrudgingly spending 50-100% of the cars value in one go is a bitter pill to swallow.

[jakesmith]

edc said:

I think the market reality is that there isn't really a big market for bigger engine rebuilds. Autofarm have been doing the 3.7 for many years already. There are others out there that do similar too. I think 9 Excellence have been doing them too. I would guess most people buying a 986/996 are looking for value. As much as some could probably just go out and buy a new 991 or spend £50k on a newer model most have deliberately chosen at this price point and begrudgingly spending 50-100% of the cars value in one go is a bitter pill to swallow.

Agree with this - most people running a £5k Boxster or £13k 996 are going to be pretty gutted at an engine rebuild. The concept of another several £1000's on top to get a bit more power is probably not at the front of their mind especially given they bought a car that is not that powerful any more by the standards of the day 20 years later.

And anyone concerned with power can buy something faster in the first place. People with enough money to spend on 3.9-ing a healthy Boxster or 996 and likely able to afford something faster. I'm sure there are a few out there who do it but it is a small part of a small market. Only if you're planning on keeping it for many years does it make sense, or if you love the car for some reason. My experience of petrolheads is keep a car 1-3 years and then swap for something else, five figures for a marginal power increase is likely a waste of money for most.

[Scho]

ferrisbueller said:

Baz's old C4S was up for a lot less not that long ago.

My car.

Sold for 22k.

[Escy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm not so sure, people that are put off by a larger capacity rebuild are likely to be put off that it's had any rebuild at all, they won't want it regardless of what was done or who did it. I'm sure there are plenty of cars that had an engine rebuild and the seller decided not to include the paperwork. Perhaps not so much the case as cars get older and are enthusiast owned but definitely they case when they are newer and have more value.

I think the big capacity rebuilds aren't common is because going by the graphs on the website the result is pretty underwhelming considering the outlay. Also I bet a high percentage of their rebuilds aren't the whole engine just the cylinders that are damaged, therefore deciding to go big capacity adds 5k on not 1.5k.

[ferrisbueller]

Scho said:

ferrisbueller said:

Baz's old C4S was up for a lot less not that long ago.

My car.

Sold for 22k.

Small world. I nearly called you as it looked good! It was discussed on one of the threads.

[ATM]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It's not for me. Can I just turn up and ask for the keys?

[ferrisbueller]

ATM said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It's not for me. Can I just turn up and ask for the keys?

I think there needs to be some intent to make a purchase.

[m444ttb]

I really wish they'd had the larger capacity increase ready back in 2015 when my full rebuild was done. It'd have felt like I got some tangible benefit out of it.

[edc]

£1,500 on top of a £12k to get a 3.9 oftentimes distress purchase may not seem a big premium to some but it is still a decent amount of money and 12% more.

It's a couple of sets of tyres, a new set of wheels, parts for as good as a full suspension rebuild, several years of insurance premium, front end respray. Many baulk at putting the money in for some of these things let alone a nice to have addition to an unplanned engine rebuild.

You've got to really want it as it's hardly throw away money.

[Chris Stott]

A rebuild isn’t £12k though.

There’s a post from Baz on 911uk where he says a rebuild ex pistons is £7.1k and £8.3k with pistons. That’s all 6, and includes vat.

He says a typical rebuild cost is £7.2k (inc vat).

So spending nearly double on a 3.9 is a massive commitment.

[2Btoo]

A rebuild is going to involve several stages;

- Removal of affected engine from car
- Cost of storing car without engine (could be relevant if in London)
- Shipping engine to rebuild centre if the removal is done elsewhere
- Rebuild ...
- .... possibly plus parts ....
- .... possibly plus some bits that are not necessary (improvements on the unaffected bank in the case of bore scoring, capacity increase)
- Shipping engine back to car
- Refitting engine in car

If we are talking about the price of 'a rebuild' then how much of these bits are included or excluded?

[Chris Stott]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I’m just quoting what Baz says in his post.

“ I asked him what is a typical lowest price “engine only” rebuild we have done in the past year? – after looking up a few invoices – the answer was “around £4K”, what is a typical lower priced full car job in the whole car then? “around £6K – and these will have reliable rebuilds we don’t do anything else”

You can read it yourself... He seems to be pretty pissed off with people saying ‘a rebuild costs £12k’...

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=137857&postda...

[Escy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm not sure how a 12k engine rebuild is considered good value, one of the cars most prone to needing a rebuild is a 987 Cayman S which can be bought for under 10k. I'm not seeing your logic.

[Chris Stott]

His words, not mine.

You can read Baz’s replies in the thread link.

£8.2k inc vat for their pistons. About £700 cheaper for basic pistons.

“full rebuild including gaskets seals and fluids is £3600, A full set of cylinders is £2500 and no where can I find anything about pistons being £3.7K?

If your pistons are OK the above comes to £6,100 + vat = £7,320

If all pistons need replacing with recoated pistons and new rings & replace all cylinders @ £2500 with Cyls plus recoated pistons and rings @ £3,200 + basic rebuild @ £3,600 etc = £6,800 + vat = £8,160.”

Edited by Chris Stott on Friday 28th February 17:39