I've just bought some poverty Pork…
Discussion
skinny said:
2Btoo said:
Interesting, thanks for the photo and explanation ATM. I've seen similar done with high-modulus silicone poured into a mount once it has been masked with sticky tape. I can't see what the insert in the picture is made of but if you use the silicone modulus carefully than you can increase the stiffness as much or as little as you like.
(The downside is that the silicone is not removable so you can't change your mind if you think it is a bit too harsh).
The insert is a 70 shore i think but i might have that wrong. I had to drill mine out a bit to effectively soften it up as i didn't like the vibration. (The downside is that the silicone is not removable so you can't change your mind if you think it is a bit too harsh).
I understand that the 996 gearbox mount is the same as the 986 engine mount
Edited by skinny on Thursday 5th March 17:17
Similar with the 996 - you can get a 987/997 bush only, and press it into the gearbox.
Hi folks. Regarding suspension on the 986 I've been on quite an (expensive) adventure... a long read but it may be informative...
Bought my 2.5 car with M030 as standard but it had dodgy ball joints on the coffin arms. The ARBs were very rusty too, so much so that the ID of new bushes was far too large, they were a very loose fit. Wanting to get the car back to 100% I bought 4 Meyle coffin arms and also some Eibach ARBs which were at a good price. I do all the work myself and afterwards the car cornered like it was on rails but the ride over anything but good tarmac made me think that either my back or the bodywork holding the strut tops was going to break. Thuds over potholes made me wince. Additionally, on particularly uneven roads (uneven left to right and front to back at the same time) the reduced independence of the suspension, due to the thick ARBs, led to alarming handling where I imagine the weight on one of the wheels was being very much reduced. The reduced suspension travel of the M030 springs made the car feel 'hunkered down' but also made the car feel 'heavy-footed' somehow. Overall the car felt very busy to drive.
Given that my elderly dad also drives the car I decided a more relaxed set up was required. In my mind's eye I had an idea of what I wanted and 'light-footedness'/compliance was part of that. I purchased a set of Koni FSD dampers (now called special active), new standard rate Spidan springs and second hand standard ARBs. Ride quality was improved massively. Ok, the steering wasn't quite as sharp and the roll in corners increased a bit but I could now drive the car anywhere and never get jarred or become tired of any lack of ride quality. I'm fussy when it comes to ride quality too. The 'light-footed' quality I'd been looking for had been found. Don't confuse that with skittishness though, I've never lost traction.
Over a period of time - perhaps 18 months - the handling slowly deteriorated. Keeping the car on a chosen line was hard work and it felt sloppy. Having renewed virtually everything, including the rear 'tuning forks' and the similar shorter arms at the front, I couldn't understand it. Steering joints were ok too. By chance I googled the symptoms and found that someone had done some testing on a batch of Meyle coffin arms and found that the larger of the two rubber bushings were tested as being softer than genuine arms. A 'fix' was to fill the voids in the bushes with polyurethane. Doing this to all four arms got the car handling well again and the car steered more sharply than ever although refinement suffered with knocks coming up through the steering and a slight reduction in ride quality. Lots of people have been happy with Meyle arms so I can only guess that I got some bad ones somehow.
Losing faith in aftermarket parts (as a new top mount from a well known supplier also failed) I bit the bullet and bought two new genuine coffin arms for up front plus two new genuine top mounts. The dealer in Sheffield were also happy to give me a discount. I'm hoping to keep the car for a good while so I figured the investment would be worthwhile. A very small amount of steering directness was lost with the Porsche arms but there were no more knocks coming up through the steering and refinement was back. I've come to the conclusion that Porsche really do go to great lengths to fine tune their cars and to get the car driving nicely it's worth the cost to buy genuine if possible. I still hope to afford two new coffin arms for the rear at some point as I think it will improve the ride further.
I drove the biggest part of the Scotland NC500 with this setup and it was pretty epic. There's some bad roads and tracks in the remote areas of Scotland but at no point did the car cause discomfort. You still feel bumps but they're rounded off nicely. I put this down to the Koni dampers. I've even got some special actives on order for my VW to improve things.
Since the trip I've fitted some good second hand M030 ARBs. The ride is a little firmer though still not jarring and the car now corners and handles exactly how I'd like. Two independent Porsche specialists have been impressed with how the car feels.
Fingers crossed I won't be spending on suspension for a good few years.
Bought my 2.5 car with M030 as standard but it had dodgy ball joints on the coffin arms. The ARBs were very rusty too, so much so that the ID of new bushes was far too large, they were a very loose fit. Wanting to get the car back to 100% I bought 4 Meyle coffin arms and also some Eibach ARBs which were at a good price. I do all the work myself and afterwards the car cornered like it was on rails but the ride over anything but good tarmac made me think that either my back or the bodywork holding the strut tops was going to break. Thuds over potholes made me wince. Additionally, on particularly uneven roads (uneven left to right and front to back at the same time) the reduced independence of the suspension, due to the thick ARBs, led to alarming handling where I imagine the weight on one of the wheels was being very much reduced. The reduced suspension travel of the M030 springs made the car feel 'hunkered down' but also made the car feel 'heavy-footed' somehow. Overall the car felt very busy to drive.
Given that my elderly dad also drives the car I decided a more relaxed set up was required. In my mind's eye I had an idea of what I wanted and 'light-footedness'/compliance was part of that. I purchased a set of Koni FSD dampers (now called special active), new standard rate Spidan springs and second hand standard ARBs. Ride quality was improved massively. Ok, the steering wasn't quite as sharp and the roll in corners increased a bit but I could now drive the car anywhere and never get jarred or become tired of any lack of ride quality. I'm fussy when it comes to ride quality too. The 'light-footed' quality I'd been looking for had been found. Don't confuse that with skittishness though, I've never lost traction.
Over a period of time - perhaps 18 months - the handling slowly deteriorated. Keeping the car on a chosen line was hard work and it felt sloppy. Having renewed virtually everything, including the rear 'tuning forks' and the similar shorter arms at the front, I couldn't understand it. Steering joints were ok too. By chance I googled the symptoms and found that someone had done some testing on a batch of Meyle coffin arms and found that the larger of the two rubber bushings were tested as being softer than genuine arms. A 'fix' was to fill the voids in the bushes with polyurethane. Doing this to all four arms got the car handling well again and the car steered more sharply than ever although refinement suffered with knocks coming up through the steering and a slight reduction in ride quality. Lots of people have been happy with Meyle arms so I can only guess that I got some bad ones somehow.
Losing faith in aftermarket parts (as a new top mount from a well known supplier also failed) I bit the bullet and bought two new genuine coffin arms for up front plus two new genuine top mounts. The dealer in Sheffield were also happy to give me a discount. I'm hoping to keep the car for a good while so I figured the investment would be worthwhile. A very small amount of steering directness was lost with the Porsche arms but there were no more knocks coming up through the steering and refinement was back. I've come to the conclusion that Porsche really do go to great lengths to fine tune their cars and to get the car driving nicely it's worth the cost to buy genuine if possible. I still hope to afford two new coffin arms for the rear at some point as I think it will improve the ride further.
I drove the biggest part of the Scotland NC500 with this setup and it was pretty epic. There's some bad roads and tracks in the remote areas of Scotland but at no point did the car cause discomfort. You still feel bumps but they're rounded off nicely. I put this down to the Koni dampers. I've even got some special actives on order for my VW to improve things.
Since the trip I've fitted some good second hand M030 ARBs. The ride is a little firmer though still not jarring and the car now corners and handles exactly how I'd like. Two independent Porsche specialists have been impressed with how the car feels.
Fingers crossed I won't be spending on suspension for a good few years.
Thanks for the comprehensive write-up, BoxsterJames.
Had similar woes with corrosion on the RARB on my old 2.7 and replaced this with a good used item. Do the M030 have significantly different rates to standard? Always thought these were a mild upgrade, as opposed to X73 or X74.
Could you share how much you managed to get genuine coffin arms for?
Had similar woes with corrosion on the RARB on my old 2.7 and replaced this with a good used item. Do the M030 have significantly different rates to standard? Always thought these were a mild upgrade, as opposed to X73 or X74.
Could you share how much you managed to get genuine coffin arms for?
The 986 gearbox mounts are the same shape as 996 engine mounts. They are like a mushroom. The domed side has the hydraulic fluid in it. Cut the metal dome away and remove the innards and fill with poly. If you want it stiffer still poly fill around the stud on the other side. I can't remember the shore on mine but something like 85.
don't get the poly insert for the gearbox mount on a 996, way too harsh
Just buy the Lemforder replacement and press in (no idea how people do this with gearbox in, hard enough with it out)
even if yours isn't cracked it will be soft and saggy
URO brand rear engine mounts from rockauto.com are OE mine even had porsche logo and part number on them
Just buy the Lemforder replacement and press in (no idea how people do this with gearbox in, hard enough with it out)
even if yours isn't cracked it will be soft and saggy
URO brand rear engine mounts from rockauto.com are OE mine even had porsche logo and part number on them
edc said:
The 986 gearbox mounts are the same shape as 996 engine mounts. They are like a mushroom. The domed side has the hydraulic fluid in it. Cut the metal dome away and remove the innards and fill with poly. If you want it stiffer still poly fill around the stud on the other side. I can't remember the shore on mine but something like 85.
Did this make a noticeable difference in the stiffness of them? Looking back it's been over 5 years since I out a new 987 engine mount in and that made the most difference as I had a driveline shunt and the bush was torn all around. The gearbox poly mounts are coming up to 5 years in now. Not as noticeable as a fresh engine mount over a totally knackered one but still noticeable. If you had a more trackday oriented car I think you could go harder on the poly and/or fill in around the stud too. I opted not to do the stud so don't have a basis for comparison.
On the bench the stud is noticeably less moveable even just by hand over an old pair of mounts. I have the original mounts in my garage.
On the bench the stud is noticeably less moveable even just by hand over an old pair of mounts. I have the original mounts in my garage.
Historics classic car auction at Ascot today, a 2002 108k miles 2.7 went for almost £4k:
https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2020-0...
For an untested car, that's seems very fair to me.... Speaking as somebody with a 2.7 of their own.
ETA: £3962 may seem a strange amount; it's the top bid of £3500 plus 11% buyers premium plus VAT on that (i.e. 13.2% on top of highest bid)
https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2020-0...
For an untested car, that's seems very fair to me.... Speaking as somebody with a 2.7 of their own.
ETA: £3962 may seem a strange amount; it's the top bid of £3500 plus 11% buyers premium plus VAT on that (i.e. 13.2% on top of highest bid)
Edited by V8fan on Saturday 7th March 19:35
Rosewood Red said:
Thanks for the comprehensive write-up, BoxsterJames.
Had similar woes with corrosion on the RARB on my old 2.7 and replaced this with a good used item. Do the M030 have significantly different rates to standard? Always thought these were a mild upgrade, as opposed to X73 or X74.
Could you share how much you managed to get genuine coffin arms for?
The M030 bars reduce roll sufficiently for my needs, there's very little IMO, enough for road driving. Any stiffer would make it harder to know the limits of grip and make the ride more 'knobbly'.Had similar woes with corrosion on the RARB on my old 2.7 and replaced this with a good used item. Do the M030 have significantly different rates to standard? Always thought these were a mild upgrade, as opposed to X73 or X74.
Could you share how much you managed to get genuine coffin arms for?
FYI - these https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod133853/Engine-M...
Fitthe 986 Boxster Transmission mounts perfectly. Mildly uprated, made a big improvement, particularly to gear change.
I found it had a bigger effect than changing the (completely shagged) frotn engine mount too, i used the usual 987 upgrade part for that.
Definitely reccomended.
Fitthe 986 Boxster Transmission mounts perfectly. Mildly uprated, made a big improvement, particularly to gear change.
I found it had a bigger effect than changing the (completely shagged) frotn engine mount too, i used the usual 987 upgrade part for that.
Definitely reccomended.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-Porsche-996-911-C4...
This C4S seems to be doing the rounds a lot recently. One of the reasons why it might not be selling is the brake pipes have not been done on this car. Also, I contacted the seller who was very rude and unprofessional - more like a cowboy seller - therefore, not surprised people are steering clear of it.
I was quoted 2k for brake pipes on my boxster (I did them myself, not a hard job tbh) - but just goes to show how costs of pipes can add up.
This C4S seems to be doing the rounds a lot recently. One of the reasons why it might not be selling is the brake pipes have not been done on this car. Also, I contacted the seller who was very rude and unprofessional - more like a cowboy seller - therefore, not surprised people are steering clear of it.
I was quoted 2k for brake pipes on my boxster (I did them myself, not a hard job tbh) - but just goes to show how costs of pipes can add up.
Had a test drive in a 987 S today, had 65k miles up for 9k, a few things I want to sanity check. Steering and brakes felt very direct, as in, not overly assisted. The brakes in particular, not the usual tiny dab over servo'd put you through a windscreen job. Progressive, but took some effort to get full gumption. The steering almost felt like it wasn't power assisted, I absolutely despise that fairground dodg'em car feel so again, was pleasantly surprised.
Having not driven any others (yet) is this all normal?
Small amount of gunk under the oil cap, coolant level was showing well under minimum once it was up to temp. Alarm bells started ringing at this point, I could smell that hot coolant whiff in the air after the test drive, checked the rads up front as best I could, nothing dripping that I could see but I suspect something is leaking somewhere. I know what a hot engine smells like, but this just had that saccharine smell to it.
Some corrosion to the latch area on the bonnet underside.
Not a great first one to look at, it's at the thick end of my budget as well so would rather avoid any disasters. I won't be bothering with it anyway as a matter of course, the interior was supposed to be black, but it's actually a very dark blue. Full leather option so it's everywhere, not my cuppa.
The search continues, but I think I'll be sticking around the 6k mark for a 986. Silver or black paint with black interior. Going to go see 2 more during the week, so will have something to compare. Fingers crossed I'll have one on the drive soon.
Having not driven any others (yet) is this all normal?
Small amount of gunk under the oil cap, coolant level was showing well under minimum once it was up to temp. Alarm bells started ringing at this point, I could smell that hot coolant whiff in the air after the test drive, checked the rads up front as best I could, nothing dripping that I could see but I suspect something is leaking somewhere. I know what a hot engine smells like, but this just had that saccharine smell to it.
Some corrosion to the latch area on the bonnet underside.
Not a great first one to look at, it's at the thick end of my budget as well so would rather avoid any disasters. I won't be bothering with it anyway as a matter of course, the interior was supposed to be black, but it's actually a very dark blue. Full leather option so it's everywhere, not my cuppa.
The search continues, but I think I'll be sticking around the 6k mark for a 986. Silver or black paint with black interior. Going to go see 2 more during the week, so will have something to compare. Fingers crossed I'll have one on the drive soon.
Coolant smell means, something definitely up! might be small, might be expensive... Do not ask me why I know, but once it's fixed properly(water-tight cooling system, refresh coolant, water pump and etc...) there is no smell or overheat, they can drive without any issue under any heat or congested traffic.
Cardinal Hips said:
Had a test drive in a 987 S today, had 65k miles up for 9k, a few things I want to sanity check. Steering and brakes felt very direct, as in, not overly assisted. The brakes in particular, not the usual tiny dab over servo'd put you through a windscreen job. Progressive, but took some effort to get full gumption. The steering almost felt like it wasn't power assisted, I absolutely despise that fairground dodg'em car feel so again, was pleasantly surprised.
Same here. It can feel a bit weird at first if you're used to recent cars but after a while it's what you'll learn to love about these things.They give off all sorts of noises and smells - most cars filter all that out now.
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