IPDs - do they work on N/A - let's find out

[996ttalot]

So there has been much debate on whether fitting an IPD to an NA car will make a difference. I think it is about time someone put it to the test and therefore have brought four parties to the table to resolve this question.

Car 996C4S with no modifications kindly supplied by one of our customers.

68mm IPD supplied by Greg at IPD in the USA - the license holders of the IPD - the original IPD - not a copy - they are supplying this free of charge.

Charlie at SurreyRollingRoad will provide the dyno - on this occasion we will use a dyno in a controlled manner instead of a 60-130 time

We will do the install.

This will take place over the coming weeks and we will update the thread with the results.

No other changes will be made to the car - we will not change throttle body or anything at this stage.

Keep a check on the thread and we will update it as the changes take place.

Ken

[cragswinter]

Henry's gonna love this one but I've got to admit, what's an IPD??

[996ttalot]

cragswinter said:

Henry's gonna love this one but I've got to admit, what's an IPD??

Intake plenum

http://www.ipdplenums.com/index.php?option=com_con...

[Magic919]

IPD is just a brand of plenum to be fair.

[996ttalot]

So Greg from ipd is putting their reputation on the line for the claimed results

"There was a big debate over the Plenums 4 or 5 years ago so we decided to do an open house dyno day and invite everybody from every Porsche forum to attend. Over a couple hundred people attended armed with video cameras and full access to be up-close and personal. We tested 5 Porsche in one day
(2000 996 3.4L, 2002 996 3.6L, 2007 997S 3.8, 2007 987.1S 3.4L and a 996 3.4L EVOMS Super Charged). Most of these cars put down some very impressive base line runs but the IPD Plenums still delivers the promised gains we advertise. The so-called opponents of the IPD Plenums are usually affiliated with 2 specific Porsche shops who just happened to be the same ones who were served with a cease and desist letter after they violated our patent in an effort to reproduce our Plenum design.

We have sold over 3000 IPD Plenums over the past 6 years all of which come with a 100% money back guarantee, and we've ONLY had 4 returned in 6 years.
We currently sell about 30 each week to all kinds of reputable dealers, even in Europe, including Cargraphic, RS Tuning and FVD who both move a fair amount of IPD product.

But all that being said, we will still (and always) continue to stand behind our product and invite any quality Porsche shop to conduct a "see for yourself" test so they can represent the IPD products with honesty and confidence to their clientele. I would be more than happy to send you a Plenum for the 996 C4S for you to test and evaluation. I completely understand and fully respect your position in wanting to perform your own dyno tests. I always prefer a company test more than one Plenum but let's see what we come up with in this first round of testing.

Firstly, (as I'm sure you already know) the Plenum should not be installed on any vehicle suffering from any outstanding service issues. Any and all Porsches must be mechanically sound with all scheduled maintenance and service performed before installing your Plenum. Secondly the most common reasons for IPD Plenums not delivering the performance gains claimed by IPD are; incorrect installation and / or a faulty MAF sensor. Hot wire mass air flow sensors degrade over time. After thousands of heat cycles on the precious metal element you may suffer loss of resolution at the extremes of measurement (i.e. peak power). Although the sensor may not be so far out of range to cause a check engine light, we have seen cases where the performance improvements are not fully realized, especially with older cars.

Also, keep in mind that the ECU requires a series of hard pulls in order for the ECU to fully adapt to the increased air flow.

We look forward to hearing all about your test results and working together in the future. Although we have some representation in the UK we are always looking for well respected Porsche focused shops who have a strong and loyal following in their community. Please send confirm your shipping address and I will prepare your order for shipping tomorrow. Thanks again for all of your interest, consideration and enthusiasm with the IPD Plenums.

Greg"

[dom9]

Looking forward to the results of this one

[Gibbo205]

Be interesting to see a proven before and after on a 997.1 S as well.

Though I am sure if gains are shown on a 996 S then you'd also expect the 997.1 S larger 3.8l engine to benefit just as well if not more.


One question though.

1. I assume you will start by say running 3 stock runs, to give you three decent plots of what the stock car is putting out and you will do your best to ensure the runs are done both at similar ambient temperature and with the cars engine at a controlled temperature?

2. Then fit the IPD and run another 3 runs and compare whilst trying to maintain the same testing conditions, ideally it would be best to do all runs on the same day.

3. Drive the car a good 50-100 miles or so in order to allow the DME to fully re-learn and then dyno again?


My testing methology would be, dyno stock car 3 times in morning, fit new IPD plenum, dyno IPD equipped car 3 times, then take car for a 50 mile or so run so DME can learn and then dyno car another 3 times, all done on the same day. This is really only the best and ideal way to compare to see if there is any gains. Will you be conducting your testing in a similar method?

[996ttalot]

Gibbo205 said:

Be interesting to see a proven before and after on a 997.1 S as well.

Though I am sure if gains are shown on a 996 S then you'd also expect the 997.1 S larger 3.8l engine to benefit just as well if not more.


One question though.

1. I assume you will start by say running 3 stock runs, to give you three decent plots of what the stock car is putting out and you will do your best to ensure the runs are done both at similar ambient temperature and with the cars engine at a controlled temperature?

2. Then fit the IPD and run another 3 runs and compare whilst trying to maintain the same testing conditions, ideally it would be best to do all runs on the same day.

3. Drive the car a good 50-100 miles or so in order to allow the DME to fully re-learn and then dyno again?


My testing methology would be, dyno stock car 3 times in morning, fit new IPD plenum, dyno IPD equipped car 3 times, then take car for a 50 mile or so run so DME can learn and then dyno car another 3 times, all done on the same day. This is really only the best and ideal way to compare to see if there is any gains. Will you be conducting your testing in a similar method?

The exact method will be determined based on pulling everyone together. Yes we would like to do it all on the same day and Charlie will be responsible for making sure that the dyno is done in a controlled environment to make sure it is a true comparison.

I suspect we will just fit a new MAF so that there is no chance of anything affecting the results.

Frankly even 10-15hp would be a good gain imo - but will be more interested in the gain under the curve rather than peak hp/tq.

[Gibbo205]

996ttalot said:

The exact method will be determined based on pulling everyone together. Yes we would like to do it all on the same day and Charlie will be responsible for making sure that the dyno is done in a controlled environment to make sure it is a true comparison.

I suspect we will just fit a new MAF so that there is no chance of anything affecting the results.

Frankly even 10-15hp would be a good gain imo - but will be more interested in the gain under the curve rather than peak hp/tq.

Completely agreed, peak gains mean nothing, as I don't drive my car around everywhere over 6000rpm, well most of the time, just not all the time.

If IPD can really delivery 25BHP in the mid-range then it will be extremely good mod, especially as they are circa £600 delivered from US.

Would also be interesting to see what kind of gains a car with better induction, X51 manifolds and sport cats or de-cats got as well.


P.S. Can you email me your contact information for your shop/company please m8.

[doneitnow]

Gibbo205 said:

Completely agreed, peak gains mean nothing, as I don't drive my car around everywhere over 6000rpm, well most of the time, just not all the time.

If IPD can really delivery 25BHP in the mid-range then it will be extremely good mod, especially as they are circa £600 delivered from US.

Would also be interesting to see what kind of gains a car with better induction, X51 manifolds and sport cats or de-cats got as well.


P.S. Can you email me your contact information for your shop/company please m8.

Going to be very interesting, might have to play with my C'S if results are good, dying to play with it. If you click on his user name it brings up his info

[Gibbo205]

doneitnow said:

Going to be very interesting, might have to play with my C'S if results are good, dying to play with it. If you click on his user name it brings up his info

if your our of warranty and don't have an OPC warranty the proven mods that work for both power, torque and sound are:-

BMC Panel filter - £60
Airbox Resonator mod - FREE or get a silicone tube made up and cap, about £50-£100
Porsche X51 Headers - 10-15BHP around 4000-5000rpm, sub 5BHP peak.
Cat Bypass Pipe - £300ish, 20ish BHP above 6000rpm, but torque loss down low and you will get a CEL light which needs either a tune to remove or you'd need 02 extenders about £15 each.
200cel Sport cat X-pipe - £1000ish, 15ish BHP top end, no loss down low and good mid-range gains.
Softronic tune - Ideally required to get the above gains and for car to run great.

A stock 997.1 C2S with all the above should be in the region of 380-390BHP, the above together will certainly give a nice 25-30BHP peak gain with upto 30-40BHP gains in the mid-range and the car will sound awsome, though for some CAT bypass pipes are way too loud and to some its also a horrible noise, hence the Sport 200 cel cats can be the best option, it cost more, but you hold onto that nice 911 Flat 6 sound, maintain low-down torque and will still pass your MOT and not have any warning lights, though CEL/Emmission lights can be easily sorted via DME tuning or 02 extender things you can buy.

Or you can just do the X51 conversion which will keep your emmissions well within specified limits, is absolutely bling with the CF airbox and have a guaranteed 380-385BHP, but will cost you in the region of 4-6k to do wheras the above will cost circa 3k.

Though an X51 car with softronic and Sport 200 cel cats would no doubt be knocking on the door of 400BHP, certainly not be far off.

[Popolou]

IIRC (and i am happy to be corrected), no UK based testing had been carried out to any acceptable and unbiased degree on the plenums. The majority of scrutiny had been overseas with documented installs on all 9x7 ranges, with much feedback on forums such as Planet-9 (ex. CaymanClub.net).

Will be following this one with interest.

Pops

[mrdemon]

I bought a lot of stuff from the USA to prove them wrong 4 years ago, as I thought claims were silly big.
I infact managed a 45BHp gain on my Cayman and it was great.

I don't get why UK tuning is so far behind, and people just want to resell stuff and not invest in tuning/testing.
The Cayman and Boxster can release loads of extra power and Torque. Not so sure about the 911's as I have never owned one.
Why no one resold the stuff I used seems crazy as the increase was amazing.

The issue is get more air in you need to get the air out and most new Porsche have 4 cats in the way.

You might get a 5 BHP gain from a IPD on it's own, you might get a 10BHp gain from removing the two rear cats on their own.

but do both and you might get a 25BHp gain over all as they work together to release the power.
AS for dyno you can put them where the sun don't shine imo, nice to get a base result and look at a curve to see where it changes over stock.
But what you want to know is , is it faster and the only way to test that is vbox it doing 3rd gear pulls.

you must have seem my results but all I fitted was a decat rear section, a bigger plenum and the GT3 throttle body, than a remap to tie it all in. but doing just 1 thing would have been not worth it, (bar the rear decat which is always worth it on a Porsche imo)
I could have got even more gains changing the headers/manafolds.

I look forward to your findings, better late than never :-), I am now thinking what I can do to my Porsche Spyder to get 350BHp :-)
which should give it a great BHP/ton figure.

Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 18th January 12:54

[gadgetJunky72]

Gibbo205 said:

if your our of warranty and don't have an OPC warranty the proven mods that work for both power, torque and sound are:-

BMC Panel filter - £60
Airbox Resonator mod - FREE or get a silicone tube made up and cap, about £50-£100
Porsche X51 Headers - 10-15BHP around 4000-5000rpm, sub 5BHP peak.
Cat Bypass Pipe - £300ish, 20ish BHP above 6000rpm, but torque loss down low and you will get a CEL light which needs either a tune to remove or you'd need 02 extenders about £15 each.
200cel Sport cat X-pipe - £1000ish, 15ish BHP top end, no loss down low and good mid-range gains.
Softronic tune - Ideally required to get the above gains and for car to run great.

A stock 997.1 C2S with all the above should be in the region of 380-390BHP, the above together will certainly give a nice 25-30BHP peak gain with upto 30-40BHP gains in the mid-range and the car will sound awsome, though for some CAT bypass pipes are way too loud and to some its also a horrible noise, hence the Sport 200 cel cats can be the best option, it cost more, but you hold onto that nice 911 Flat 6 sound, maintain low-down torque and will still pass your MOT and not have any warning lights, though CEL/Emmission lights can be easily sorted via DME tuning or 02 extender things you can buy.

Or you can just do the X51 conversion which will keep your emmissions well within specified limits, is absolutely bling with the CF airbox and have a guaranteed 380-385BHP, but will cost you in the region of 4-6k to do wheras the above will cost circa 3k.

Though an X51 car with softronic and Sport 200 cel cats would no doubt be knocking on the door of 400BHP, certainly not be far off.

please stop giving me ideas.

[Richie200]

mrdemon said:

I bought a lot of stuff from the USA to prove them wrong 4 years ago, as I thought claims were silly big.
I infact managed a 45BHp gain on my Cayman and it was great.

I don't get why UK tuning is so far behind, and people just want to resell stuff and not invest in tuning/testing.
The Cayman and Boxster can release loads of extra power and Torque. Not so sure about the 911's as I have never owned one.
Why no one resold the stuff I used seems crazy as the increase was amazing.

The issue is get more air in you need to get the air out and most new Porsche have 4 cats in the way.

You might get a 5 BHP gain from a IPD on it's own, you might get a 10BHp gain from removing the two rear cats on their own.

but do both and you might get a 25BHp gain over all as they work together to release the power.
AS for dyno you can put them where the suns don't shine imo, nice to get a base result and look at a curve to see where it changes over stock.
But what you want to know is , is it faster and the only way to test that is vbox it going 3rd gear pulls.

you must have seem my results but all I fitted was a decat rear section, a bigger plenum and the GT3 throttle body, than a remap to tie it all in. but doing just 1 think would have been not worth it, (bar the rear decat which is always worth it on a POrsche)

Hi Mrdemon, I have a '98 996 C2 3.4l and am very much interested in following this route. Do you have a link to a website where I can buy the 200Cel Cats? Also if I fit the 200cel cats along with the IPD, is a remap critical or will the DME do the job of reconfiguring itself for me?

[doneitnow]

Hi Gibbo, read your post with real enthusiasm, then read the bit about being for a 997 my C'S was refering to a Cayman s.

[mrdemon]

Richie

delete the rear cats, why do you want 200 cel cats ?

I would be looking at maybe a Fabspeed exhausts. or have a talk to Sharkwerks leading the way in Porsche tuning imo.

I would not go with a UK company unless they had tie ins with these guys for 911 stuff or Softronic for Cayman/Boxster stuff.
ALso some of the USA based race teams resell engine mounts and race ARB's far better than what you can buy in the UK.
I cannot offer any 911 advice as I have never own one, so just talk to some of the USA guys who have tried and tested stuff.

Fabspeed
AWE
Sharkwerks
Borla
GMG racing
Softronic
Wevo

Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 18th January 13:14

[Richie200]

Mrdemon, De-catting is not really an option for me as the car is registered in Germany and they don't take to kindly to these sort of antics, hence me trying to retain an element of OEMness. I already have a PSE fitted, but just wanted to releive a bit of the back pressure and gain a few horses in the process.

[gtphile]

Richie200 said:

Mrdemon, De-catting is not really an option for me as the car is registered in Germany and they don't take to kindly to these sort of antics, hence me trying to retain an element of OEMness. I already have a PSE fitted, but just wanted to releive a bit of the back pressure and gain a few horses in the process.

It is no longer an option (for MOT) in the UK - the latest changes require cats if the car was originally supplied with cats. So even if you car passes emmissions without cats, that is no longer good enough. Check the new regulations. Of course what you do after the MOT is another thing

[mrdemon]

Richie200 said:

Mrdemon, De-catting is not really an option for me as the car is registered in Germany and they don't take to kindly to these sort of antics, hence me trying to retain an element of OEMness. I already have a PSE fitted, but just wanted to releive a bit of the back pressure and gain a few horses in the process.

Visit Gert at Carnewal and get him to mod your PSE, he is not far away from you.