Picking up a 991 today for a ten day test
Discussion
Lordglenmorangie said:
I see that Lewis Hamilton has insisted his new road car has a manual gear box 
Like Lewiis, I am a driving God and date a Pussycat Doll
.....or.umm..maybe not.I enjoy manual boxes and cannot conceive of a time when I have no manual car, but I am used to paddle shifts also and objectively know that the best ones do a better job of perfect shifting than I do. The experience of a manual is one of personal satisfaction at my level of talent, with the full realization that there is no practical result. Doe that reason alone we will see the gradual phasing out of the manual. How many Astons are manual? - few. Zondas? None.. . I was delighted at the time that the 997 RS had no option but manual,but I had the strongest feeling that I was buying into the end of an era. Even though manuals will continue to be available, My bet is that they are toast in five years for performance cars.
I think that super skilled competitive drivers can co things with cars that mortals such as I am can only marvel it. I have driven lots of tracks, including 150 or so Ring laps, but would rate myself as fairly average within the performance car driving community. Bell curves are like that, and if you are in all honesty like me, or are young and starting your driving experience, I am not so sure how many will stick with the stick........
SFO said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
+1. I will keep my GT3s permanently so will enjoy them indefinitely. I grew up driving standard and take your point. My personal take on a good paddle shift is a little more positive,maybe becuase I have been driving the M6 for six years. I would like to try the 458 though,heard that the Ferrari implementation of the shift is about the best....
RDMcG said:
Work stopped play today and I had to take a one day trip to the US. Since Avis was all out of Zondas, and the weekend $49.95 Koenigssegg was already out, I rented a Chevy Equinox......more 991 over the weekend
Serious drivers will want to know how the Chevy Equinox compares with the 991.Well, for starters, I prefer the colour. It also has reversing camera and better cupholders. Take that, Porsche!!!.... (seriously, it has absolutely the worst seats I have tried in years with the lateral support of a shooting stick.............).
Manks said:
That vehicle looks horrific by the way.
It looks better than it drives, but I had a functional need to carry a few people; its quiet at least. It is about as far as possible from something I would buy at any price level. A strange thing..not an SUV, not a minivan, not a car really. More a room on wheels for moving people.adam85 said:
Cracking write up thank you! Weirdly the looks of the car and colour have grown on me as the photos keep coming.
Over the weekend will do a couple of back roads with the 991 and my own cars just for some side by side impressions. Obvious very different, but all great in their own waysRDMcG said:
adam85 said:
Cracking write up thank you! Weirdly the looks of the car and colour have grown on me as the photos keep coming.
Over the weekend will do a couple of back roads with the 991 and my own cars just for some side by side impressions. Obvious very different, but all great in their own waysEnjoy the write-ups - keep them coming !!!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Precisely.I don't want to know that it comes alive and is incredibly quick when it is driven at its limit. I am never ever going to, nor am I remotely interested in, driving it anywhere near that. However, I want to feel that I am in a sports car even when I take it to the shops. I want an adrenaline rush, dead simple. Is that unreasonable? Otherwise I would be in an Audi or a BMW or even a Merc. Mercedes does some incredibly competent cars whic are very relaxing to drive. But they don't deliver adrenaline, none of them. Every 911 up to and including the 997 did. The 991 does not, and furthermore because of the entirely different view out of the damned thing, and the interior layout which they have transferred across, it makes me think I am driving a Panamera after about ten minutes. By that time I have actually forgotten I am in a 911! Boys, that is quite an achievement.
Sit in a 997 sports seat, look out over the dipping bonnet between the two projecting wings. There is only one place in the world you could be, and the excitement starts there. You WANT to press the accelerator pedal.
OK the 991 from the outside looks like a 997 with a large space monster stuffed inside it. It doesn't look that different from a 997 unless the two are side by side, but from the moment you get inside it is obviously a totally different and much bigger animal. I think Porsche have totally blown it, but then they did that with the Cayenne and made a fortune (which everybody used to say was to allow them to keep building the real sports cars. Hah! Now we know the truth) Good luck. I don't want one. If I want to waft around I will take my Jag.
On the question of transmissions, it is now pretty obvious that a good paddle shift is going to beat a manual in performance by any measure. I would still have a manual. There is also something lifeless about Porsche's PDK/paddleshift system, which smoothly effortlessly and luxuriously reduces the engine to some disconnected buzzy thing similar to a stereo fault. This boils my piss even more, so I had better sign off now.
Edited by cardigankid on Friday 4th May 17:19
Maersk said:
Good god, how high are you sitting to see BOTH front wings.................!
Presactly - I pondered this yesterday, along with the BS about sunroofs robbing headroom.I am a smidgen over 6ft and can only see the O/S wing, plus the leading/trailing edge (windscreen end) of the bonnet.
The sunroof limits my headroom to about 75mm, which I think is pretty cavernous?
cardigankid said:
Precisely.
I don't want to know that it comes alive and is incredibly quick when it is driven at its limit. I am never ever going to, nor am I remotely interested in, driving it anywhere near that. However, I want to feel that I am in a sports car even when I take it to the shops. I want an adrenaline rush, dead simple. Is that unreasonable? Otherwise I would be in an Audi or a BMW or even a Merc. Mercedes does some incredibly competent cars whic are very relaxing to drive. But they don't deliver adrenaline, none of them. Every 911 up to and including the 997 did. The 991 does not, and furthermore because of the entirely different view out of the damned thing, and the interior layout which they have transferred across, it makes me think I am driving a Panamera after about ten minutes. By that time I have actually forgotten I am in a 911! Boys, that is quite an achievement.
Sit in a 997 sports seat, look out over the dipping bonnet between the two projecting wings. There is only one place in the world you could be, and the excitement starts there. You WANT to press the accelerator pedal.
OK the 991 from the outside looks like a 997 with a large space monster stuffed inside it. It doesn't look that different from a 997 unless the two are side by side, but from the moment you get inside it is obviously a totally different and much bigger animal. I think Porsche have totally blown it, but then they did that with the Cayenne and made a fortune (which everybody used to say was to allow them to keep building the real sports cars. Hah! Now we know the truth) Good luck. I don't want one. If I want to waft around I will take my Jag.
On the question of transmissions, it is now pretty obvious that a good paddle shift is going to beat a manual in performance by any measure. I would still have a manual. There is also something lifeless about Porsche's PDK/paddleshift system, which smoothly effortlessly and luxuriously reduces the engine to some disconnected buzzy thing similar to a stereo fault. This boils my piss even more, so I had better sign off now.
While quite harsh criticism, I can see where you're coming from with much of this. The whole double clutch thing is great in central London but every time I was on a proper road I found myself craving a manual. It changes the way one drives a car. I found I ended up jut bashing through the gears up to 5th or so when joining a dual carriageway, rather than holding and winding out a gear to say 5k rpm, I'd do the 3k shuffle as the whole experience was so damn boring.I don't want to know that it comes alive and is incredibly quick when it is driven at its limit. I am never ever going to, nor am I remotely interested in, driving it anywhere near that. However, I want to feel that I am in a sports car even when I take it to the shops. I want an adrenaline rush, dead simple. Is that unreasonable? Otherwise I would be in an Audi or a BMW or even a Merc. Mercedes does some incredibly competent cars whic are very relaxing to drive. But they don't deliver adrenaline, none of them. Every 911 up to and including the 997 did. The 991 does not, and furthermore because of the entirely different view out of the damned thing, and the interior layout which they have transferred across, it makes me think I am driving a Panamera after about ten minutes. By that time I have actually forgotten I am in a 911! Boys, that is quite an achievement.
Sit in a 997 sports seat, look out over the dipping bonnet between the two projecting wings. There is only one place in the world you could be, and the excitement starts there. You WANT to press the accelerator pedal.
OK the 991 from the outside looks like a 997 with a large space monster stuffed inside it. It doesn't look that different from a 997 unless the two are side by side, but from the moment you get inside it is obviously a totally different and much bigger animal. I think Porsche have totally blown it, but then they did that with the Cayenne and made a fortune (which everybody used to say was to allow them to keep building the real sports cars. Hah! Now we know the truth) Good luck. I don't want one. If I want to waft around I will take my Jag.
On the question of transmissions, it is now pretty obvious that a good paddle shift is going to beat a manual in performance by any measure. I would still have a manual. There is also something lifeless about Porsche's PDK/paddleshift system, which smoothly effortlessly and luxuriously reduces the engine to some disconnected buzzy thing similar to a stereo fault. This boils my piss even more, so I had better sign off now.
Edited by cardigankid on Friday 4th May 17:19
As you say, it's very efficient but boring as laundry in a monastery.
Personally I'd rather have 2 cars than one which did the waft thing AND the hoon wagon too.
nsm3 said:
Maersk said:
Good god, how high are you sitting to see BOTH front wings.................!
Presactly - I pondered this yesterday, along with the BS about sunroofs robbing headroom.I am a smidgen over 6ft and can only see the O/S wing, plus the leading/trailing edge (windscreen end) of the bonnet.
The sunroof limits my headroom to about 75mm, which I think is pretty cavernous?
All really great stuff. Keep it coming. I would be very suprised if Porsche have not done their homework with regard to the 991. I think it will appeal to a new wider audience. More volume and more profit for Porsche. I guess there are a few 997 owners that don't buy into the Panamera esque styling. But that is how some people felt about the advent of the 996. I know I did. It appealed to a new far broader audience. A few guys I know who would never have before considered buying a 911 went and bought the 996 and thought it was fantastic.
Back in 1999 I was given a 996 Carrera 2 by an OPC to build into a race car for myself. They delivered it to me on a Friday afternoon. I used it Friday night and over the weekend. On Monday morning I took it back. For me it was not a Porsche 911 anymore. An alternator that had been engineered to sound more 911 ish.
I don't have a problem with PDK. In fact I've owned a couple of 993's with a tiptronic gearbox. One was a daily driver and I get to sit in the M25 car park quite often and the other for the missus whoes license does not permit her to drive a manual car. But from a feeling of being at one with the car and completely involved in the whole experience manual is the only way to go. For me anyway. As a fun road car, track day car, race day car it is where its at. Having learnt many years ago to heel and toe, to snap the next gear up just before you clip the limiter, having honed your ear to that specific rpm that you change up at. To be trail braking into a corner whilst changing down the gearbox and trying to prevent a wrong slot because of the G loading on your arm. I'm sure with PDK it would make it all a piece of cake but it would sure take a lot of the fun or enjoyment out of it. I don't like easy, I do like a challenge and in fact it makes you think about what you are doing. "think or thought" are good words. Our modern day cars appear to be trying to engineer out the thought process of driving a car. With my old 3.2 Carrera you have to think all the time. You have no abs brakes to rely upon. No traction control, no active ride. Just drive it by the seat of your pants. Good or bad you are in charge of your own destiny and to me that is what made the 911 the greatest drivers car in the world.
Back in 1999 I was given a 996 Carrera 2 by an OPC to build into a race car for myself. They delivered it to me on a Friday afternoon. I used it Friday night and over the weekend. On Monday morning I took it back. For me it was not a Porsche 911 anymore. An alternator that had been engineered to sound more 911 ish.
I don't have a problem with PDK. In fact I've owned a couple of 993's with a tiptronic gearbox. One was a daily driver and I get to sit in the M25 car park quite often and the other for the missus whoes license does not permit her to drive a manual car. But from a feeling of being at one with the car and completely involved in the whole experience manual is the only way to go. For me anyway. As a fun road car, track day car, race day car it is where its at. Having learnt many years ago to heel and toe, to snap the next gear up just before you clip the limiter, having honed your ear to that specific rpm that you change up at. To be trail braking into a corner whilst changing down the gearbox and trying to prevent a wrong slot because of the G loading on your arm. I'm sure with PDK it would make it all a piece of cake but it would sure take a lot of the fun or enjoyment out of it. I don't like easy, I do like a challenge and in fact it makes you think about what you are doing. "think or thought" are good words. Our modern day cars appear to be trying to engineer out the thought process of driving a car. With my old 3.2 Carrera you have to think all the time. You have no abs brakes to rely upon. No traction control, no active ride. Just drive it by the seat of your pants. Good or bad you are in charge of your own destiny and to me that is what made the 911 the greatest drivers car in the world.
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