Centre Gravity - Probably the best Geo in the world

[SonnyM]

My RS60 has been transformed after an 8 hour Geo at the hands of Chris at Centre Gravity!

OK the Geo was actually SIX hours and removal of the sub frame to replace a damaged drumstick took two hours. That was a whole Saturday and the Geo cost the same price regardless of the time spent... Chris said he does not stop until the job is done - I am very impressed.

Here's a brief non-technical breakdown (I have only listed the key points but Chris did a lot more than this)...

PROBLEMS:

1. Skittishness and instability at moderate speed on B roads
2. Bumpy ride on A roads regardless of PASM settings
3. Creaking in steering at slow speeds

SOLUTIONS:

Chris did a thorough analysis of the problems and general setup of the car, tyres etc with an initial test drive highlighting problems (such as understeer), then making adjustments, and taking the car out on another test drive to demonstrate the differences.

1. Chris identified small shavings on the front left tyre that were not present on the right. This was caused by a damaged inner rod that resulted in excessive play causing tyre wear. He replaced the rod and the play was eliminated.

2. The Geo was outside of Porsches tolerances by quite a margin - the front wheels were both pointing outwards, the rear right straight ahead, and the rear left inwards. Chris worked continuously making adjustments to the various settings to bring them within a range that works well for my A and B road driving. The settings are now within Porsches recommendations. In the post test drive he demonstrated that the understeer had been eliminated, the car followed the natural camber of the road (which it wasn't doing before), and the ride was much better (PASM button on and off). The latter has given me much more confidence when pushing on whereas I had to back off on tight twisty roads as the car was all over the place.

3. Chris identified the cause of the creaking to be stones at the bottom of the front right spring which he cleaned and lubricated. Creaking gone.

The car now drives better than it ever has after 35k miles and 3 years ownership. My problems have been solved and I can HIGHLY recommend Centre Gravity to all of you, as I was initially skeptical about what a Geo could do for my car but now am a firm believer after experiencing the results!

I took it to Silverstone yesterday, and although I didn't get to take it on the circuit, the RS60 behaved as predicted on the ice hill and kick plate just as the new Porsches do.

I am very happy.

[hornetrider]

Not being funny, but why on earth would a geo alignment take all day? There's no need for a before test drive either as surely he has known settings for stability, oversteer, fast road, track etc?

Just ask the driver what kind of setup he wants, get the car up on the ramp and adjust away.

[tr7v8]

Looks good. Excessive toe out is always going to make the car feel weird! What tyres do you run??

[BliarOut]

hornetrider said:

Not being funny, but why on earth would a geo alignment take all day? There's no need for a before test drive either as surely he has known settings for stability, oversteer, fast road, track etc?

Just ask the driver what kind of setup he wants, get the car up on the ramp and adjust away.

You've obviously never been to Chris He goes over everything and assesses the problems with the car in detail before he starts working on it. It's the best money you'll ever spend on getting a car sorted in the twisties IMO.

I've got a TVR and it handles after a visit to CofG, nuff said?

[SonnyM]

hornetrider said:

Not being funny, but why on earth would a geo alignment take all day? There's no need for a before test drive either as surely he has known settings for stability, oversteer, fast road, track etc?

Just ask the driver what kind of setup he wants, get the car up on the ramp and adjust away.

There were a number of issues with the car and I was talking a lot so that may have extended the time taken...

I don't know about not doing a before test drive but I found it highly valuable as a customer because I didn't know it was doing some of the things demonstrated - such as understeer at low speeds, not following the right camber, etc. Seeing the before and after was eye opening IMO. It was also a way of eliminating other problems first before applying the Geo which makes sense.

[SonnyM]

tr7v8 said:

Looks good. Excessive toe out is always going to make the car feel weird! What tyres do you run??

Thanks. PS2 N2s all round - with 6k miles on them currently.

[hornetrider]

BliarOut said:

You've obviously never been to Chris He goes over everything and assesses the problems with the car in detail before he starts working on it. It's the best money you'll ever spend on getting a car sorted in the twisties IMO.

I've got a TVR and it handles after a visit to CofG, nuff said?

No I haven't

I've been to WIM though with two MX5s, both cars absolutely transformed so I do appreciate the benefit of a good geo.

As long as none of your suspension/bushes are shagged it's just a case of getting the car onto the ramp and dialling in the known correct settings for the required driving characteristics. There's certainly no need for test drives.

Sounds like he includes a fair amount of snake oil as part of his service

[Ekona]

He really doesn't. Don't think of it as a geo, think of it as a full test of all the bits that make your car handle.

[mohitos]

hornetrider said:

No I haven't

I've been to WIM though with two MX5s, both cars absolutely transformed so I do appreciate the benefit of a good geo.

As long as none of your suspension/bushes are shagged it's just a case of getting the car onto the ramp and dialling in the known correct settings for the required driving characteristics. There's certainly no need for test drives.

Sounds like he includes a fair amount of snake oil as part of his service

It's clearly lost on you but he has hundreds of very happy customers, including myselff. Best 'upgrade' I ever did to my 968 CS.

[drmark]

Don't let the naysayers put you off SonnyM - Pistonheads is divided into two groups when it comes to Chris Franklin. Those who have had their cars set up by him and get what he does, and those who have not, and don't. I have been there twice (once after being unhappy with set up from respected indy) and, while expensive and slow, the resulting set ups were superb. Money well spent.

[GALLARDOGUY]

What's a ballpark figure for his services?

Do prices vary according to the car?

[computamedic]

hornetrider said:

No I haven't

I've been to WIM though with two MX5s, both cars absolutely transformed so I do appreciate the benefit of a good geo.

As long as none of your suspension/bushes are shagged it's just a case of getting the car onto the ramp and dialling in the known correct settings for the required driving characteristics. There's certainly no need for test drives.

Sounds like he includes a fair amount of snake oil as part of his service

There is nothing wrong with your assumptions - as long as it's applied to a new car with new components etc. As has been already said, Chris's initial test drive will allow HIM to ascertain how the car currently performs and to identify where there may be problems - whether you, as an owner, are aware of it or not. No amount of adjustment - whether to spec or otherwise - will compensate for worn bushes, under-performing shock absorbers or, even, unsuitable (notice, I didn't say "wrong") tyre pressures. Chris will often take tyre temperatures after his test drive to establish how suitable the tyre pressures might be. You will be able to tell that I have also benefitted from Chris's talent and would happily spend a day with him to get things right.

The "after" test is as much a benefit as the after test on a dyno - and equally useless without a comparable "before" test. My only advice would be to make sure you take a change of pants with you as Chris doesn't hold back!! Chris has a very complete workshop with some of the very best alignment equipment - but you won't find much "Snake Oil" in there!!!

Dave

[sportsandclassic]

Why was the subframe removed to replace an inner steering knuckle...... .?

We change these all the time without having to remove the subframe. If this is the part you are referring to.

Mike

[hornetrider]

Thanks for your replies folks. I guess my question would be, do you think the end result in terms of final alignment settings are completely unique to each car? Or if you want your 968/987 etc set up for the track that the settings would always involve having camber, castor and toe set to given settings?

I would suggest that the known end settings are always the same in order for the car to handle/behave in the desired manner. Ergo, stick it on the ramp and dial them in.

[Ekona]

GALLARDOGUY said:

What's a ballpark figure for his services?

Do prices vary according to the car?

£300 all in last time I went in January. I still consider that good value for money, given the customer service received.

[Wozy68]

No doubt CG are good at what they do, and when I was up there with my 968CS for a chat Chris seemed a nice guy; but this does not mean that they are any better than other really good suspension specialists. He however spent the first 10 minutes telling me how great he was, and how bad alot of other people out there are. I did not want to hear this, it shouted of an ego issue (or is that a confidence issue).

I know of one Porsche Specialist (ex WRC) who states CG are fab at the tech, but poor at the practical (ie when the tech and the spec don't work).

And he most definatly is not the cheapest.

Edited by Wozy68 on Sunday 29th July 20:28

[sportsandclassic]

So he test drove the car and found that it understeered... Well there is something we have never heard before. Made some adjustments on a worn innner track rod.

Then replaced it and did a wheel alignment and found that the tracking was out... Well maybe that was something to do with the joint he just replaced as it would need a tracking adjust any way.

This really is not rocket science and as someone has already said about not being good with the practical side I can vouch for that on a number of levels.

Glad you are happy but that wheel alignment should only take a couple of hours and 1 hour to replace the inner steering knuckle. You also mention that the figures are within porsche specification now. So no magic there then...?

Mike

[BliarOut]

My Tiv's geo is unique to my car and what I wanted. You won't find many that exhibit understeer, mine has been specifically set up to

It's not just a geo, it's a full suspension stripdown, inspection and rebuild with precise geometry put on. Like I said, my best upgrade by far and exceptional value fo money

[Gibbo205]

Chris setup and installed some suspension components on my Mustang some years, he absolutely transformed that car to the point we had a Yank Muscle car that could do twisties.

Not saying Chris is a genius or unique, but in my experience and people I know who have used him have found his service level top notch, his rates reasonable and all very happy with the outcome with their cars.

[NIgt3]

Glad the alignment went well for the op, but as a few others have said its not rocket science!! I think people get hung up on all the talking and test drives and hot air. I went to mike at sports & classic he asked me a few questions about what I wanted, how and where I drive the car etc etc a few hours later test drove the car and it was perfect done exactly what I asked of it. Since then done 100 laps of th ring in it and still feels good!! You pays your money you make your choice, but I think there's more than gentre gravity can set up a Porsche, my vote goes to sport and classic!!!