Factory finish panel colour mismatch?!
Discussion
Bit late to chip in but....
If the plastic panels are painted in a different place to the bodywork then there is no way to be 100% sure that it is the same pot of paint. The paint manufacturer supplies what is nominally the same colour paint to the car company but there are often subtle differences which occur between batches. If this difference is seen on enough vehicles it becomes known as a 'variant' in the trade. I suspect that this is what you are seeing on your car.
As you took your car to Porsche in Reading, are you based in the South East? If so, I would recommend a trip/call to Ty Fuller at Riviera - he is a Porsche repair specialist and will give you a very informed view on the issue.
http://www.rivieraautobody.co.uk/
To stick my anorak on for a moment...
The effect which means that colours show up differently under different light sources is called 'metamerism' - very common when cars have been repaired that the panels show up differently under sodium street lights. Also explains why you can buy a pair of trousers which look green in the shop and brown when you get them home! At least that is what I tell my wife.... :-)
If the plastic panels are painted in a different place to the bodywork then there is no way to be 100% sure that it is the same pot of paint. The paint manufacturer supplies what is nominally the same colour paint to the car company but there are often subtle differences which occur between batches. If this difference is seen on enough vehicles it becomes known as a 'variant' in the trade. I suspect that this is what you are seeing on your car.
As you took your car to Porsche in Reading, are you based in the South East? If so, I would recommend a trip/call to Ty Fuller at Riviera - he is a Porsche repair specialist and will give you a very informed view on the issue.
http://www.rivieraautobody.co.uk/
To stick my anorak on for a moment...
The effect which means that colours show up differently under different light sources is called 'metamerism' - very common when cars have been repaired that the panels show up differently under sodium street lights. Also explains why you can buy a pair of trousers which look green in the shop and brown when you get them home! At least that is what I tell my wife.... :-)
m33ufo said:
What's your preferred outcome?
Do you actually want the panels repainted?
I think ideally I would like Porsche to replace the car with a similar spec all in one colour, but they are not interested in even acknowledging there may be a problem. Reading the letter from Porsche GB they have left no room for any doubt. They have stated there is no colour or shade difference which as you can see is untrue so their position it is a clear f off.Do you actually want the panels repainted?
If the issue is variance how far is that tolerance allowed to vary? In my opinion if it is readily noticeable as mine is then it cannot be of satisfactory quality. I ordered a car in Agate grey, there was no mention of likely colour variations or differing shades on the order form. I have not seen any other Boxster 981 panels as far out as my car is.
I would have reluctantly accepted having the panels repainted just so the car did not look like it has been poorly repaired, but as the Approved Porsche Body shop cannot see a shade or colour difference I would have no confidence in them wanting to improve on it.
The first body shop I went to in the very beginning with the car immediately identified the problem and were confident they could match in the colour perfectly to the rest of the car but unfortunately have just lost their Porsche approval due to reorganisation of the network by Porsche so there would be warranty issues if I went to them.
I really love the car, it is a fantastic concept, a great fun car and thoroughly enjoyable to drive but the paint work is such a let down and has no place on a brand new car. It is thoroughly ridiculous to contemplate accepting it as is, or (learning to live with it just because it's Porsche) completely defeats the object of buying a new car of so-called quality.
As far as Porsche are concerned I am lost for words. The attitude of the dealer and Porsche GB is woeful. They have failed in every aspect of customer care and I would not want to go through the hassle again so I think a refund is the only way now and kiss the brand goodbye.
Agent51 said:
I think ideally I would like Porsche to replace the car with a similar spec all in one colour, but they are not interested in even acknowledging there may be a problem. Reading the letter from Porsche GB they have left no room for any doubt. They have stated there is no colour or shade difference which as you can see is untrue so their position it is a clear f off.
If the issue is variance how far is that tolerance allowed to vary? In my opinion if it is readily noticeable as mine is then it cannot be of satisfactory quality. I ordered a car in Agate grey, there was no mention of likely colour variations or differing shades on the order form. I have not seen any other Boxster 981 panels as far out as my car is.
I would have reluctantly accepted having the panels repainted just so the car did not look like it has been poorly repaired, but as the Approved Porsche Body shop cannot see a shade or colour difference I would have no confidence in them wanting to improve on it.
The first body shop I went to in the very beginning with the car immediately identified the problem and were confident they could match in the colour perfectly to the rest of the car but unfortunately have just lost their Porsche approval due to reorganisation of the network by Porsche so there would be warranty issues if I went to them.
I really love the car, it is a fantastic concept, a great fun car and thoroughly enjoyable to drive but the paint work is such a let down and has no place on a brand new car. It is thoroughly ridiculous to contemplate accepting it as is, or (learning to live with it just because it's Porsche) completely defeats the object of buying a new car of so-called quality.
As far as Porsche are concerned I am lost for words. The attitude of the dealer and Porsche GB is woeful. They have failed in every aspect of customer care and I would not want to go through the hassle again so I think a refund is the only way now and kiss the brand goodbye.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this, but whilst the whole circumstance is frustrating and challenging to resolve, is it worth the effort expelled?If the issue is variance how far is that tolerance allowed to vary? In my opinion if it is readily noticeable as mine is then it cannot be of satisfactory quality. I ordered a car in Agate grey, there was no mention of likely colour variations or differing shades on the order form. I have not seen any other Boxster 981 panels as far out as my car is.
I would have reluctantly accepted having the panels repainted just so the car did not look like it has been poorly repaired, but as the Approved Porsche Body shop cannot see a shade or colour difference I would have no confidence in them wanting to improve on it.
The first body shop I went to in the very beginning with the car immediately identified the problem and were confident they could match in the colour perfectly to the rest of the car but unfortunately have just lost their Porsche approval due to reorganisation of the network by Porsche so there would be warranty issues if I went to them.
I really love the car, it is a fantastic concept, a great fun car and thoroughly enjoyable to drive but the paint work is such a let down and has no place on a brand new car. It is thoroughly ridiculous to contemplate accepting it as is, or (learning to live with it just because it's Porsche) completely defeats the object of buying a new car of so-called quality.
As far as Porsche are concerned I am lost for words. The attitude of the dealer and Porsche GB is woeful. They have failed in every aspect of customer care and I would not want to go through the hassle again so I think a refund is the only way now and kiss the brand goodbye.
Obviously, each to their own but in the grand scheme of things why not just accept the way it is and enjoy the other 99% which I am sure will be amazing? Sometimes we are our own worst enemies and focus on trying to pick fault with what we have, rather than enjoy the product for what it is.
To my (4) eyes, all the pictures posted are from angles which could make a lot of difference to the perceived colour.
Especially so in the last photo, with the low sun, the "defective" panel looks like it could be almost in its own shade. Hard to explain, but it's not getting the same intensity of direct light as the adjacent panels.
Obviously, to the naked eye and not a 5 year old crappy netbook, it will look completely different, but I would suggest getting some bright work lights sets up along the side of the car, and angle them directly at the panels and see if the difference is still noticeable...
Especially so in the last photo, with the low sun, the "defective" panel looks like it could be almost in its own shade. Hard to explain, but it's not getting the same intensity of direct light as the adjacent panels.
Obviously, to the naked eye and not a 5 year old crappy netbook, it will look completely different, but I would suggest getting some bright work lights sets up along the side of the car, and angle them directly at the panels and see if the difference is still noticeable...
The Moose said:
take a trip up to see these guys and see what they have to say.
Thank you for this. I contacted them today the guy was very helpful and said there no way to measure the difference in colour it has to be done by eye. The spectrometer they have is only used a guide for mixing but would not differentiate colour from a datum? Many thanks for the link though much appreciated. Get2Jaime said:
I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this, but whilst the whole circumstance is frustrating and challenging to resolve, is it worth the effort expelled?
Obviously, each to their own but in the grand scheme of things why not just accept the way it is and enjoy the other 99% which I am sure will be amazing? Sometimes we are our own worst enemies and focus on trying to pick fault with what we have, rather than enjoy the product for what it is.
If you were buying this car off the OP in 3 years time would you be happy to pay the same price for it as for one with exactly matching paint? I wouldn't - I'd find another which did match and I'm sure most other buyers would think the same. Obviously, each to their own but in the grand scheme of things why not just accept the way it is and enjoy the other 99% which I am sure will be amazing? Sometimes we are our own worst enemies and focus on trying to pick fault with what we have, rather than enjoy the product for what it is.
rscott said:
If you were buying this car off the OP in 3 years time would you be happy to pay the same price for it as for one with exactly matching paint? I wouldn't - I'd find another which did match and I'm sure most other buyers would think the same.
One way to find out. Take the car to the OPC on a busy day, park beside the used cars and ask a few 'browsers' what they think.Hopefully this would be in front of the showroom as well.
Agent51 said:
The Moose said:
take a trip up to see these guys and see what they have to say.
Thank you for this. I contacted them today the guy was very helpful and said there no way to measure the difference in colour it has to be done by eye. The spectrometer they have is only used a guide for mixing but would not differentiate colour from a datum? Many thanks for the link though much appreciated. My thinking being if you had to match paint to 1 panel and it require xR yG zB and 6g/litre metallic flecks of between .05 and .075mm long and the second panel required aR bG cB and 3g/litre metallic flecks of between .1 and .125mm long then you know there's a difference.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the process works however - I'm not a specialist in this!!
rscott said:
If you were buying this car off the OP in 3 years time would you be happy to pay the same price for it as for one with exactly matching paint? I wouldn't - I'd find another which did match and I'm sure most other buyers would think the same.
Unless someone pointed it out to you, the lay person probably wouldn't notice! It will be in the eye of the beholder, the lighting, etc. etc. Reality is, the OP is talking about walking away from the car and brand as a result of this....that's quite a serious decision, on the basis of something that isnt proven....only by the naked eye. As per my earlier point, more important things and all that....!
rscott said:
If you were buying this car off the OP in 3 years time would you be happy to pay the same price for it as for one with exactly matching paint? I wouldn't - I'd find another which did match and I'm sure most other buyers would think the same.
I would wager most other buyers wouldn't even notice unless you pointed it out to themThere are two defined issues here . One being paint application on panels made of different base materials , this often results in varying appearance / shade , to my trained eye this is apparent on many makes of vehicle including my current 2014 E350 . Secondly the " Flip Tone " where adjacent panels are sitting at a slightly different angle to one another , coupled with high metallic content of the paint and the light hitting the individual panels from a different angle .
Having worked in the industry for 35 years I have come across this scenario on many occasions , and in my experience the manufacturer has without exception made good the appearance under the terms of the warranty ( please note I have never been involved in the Porsche network ).
As has been said you can continue to enjoy the vehicle for what it is , however if I was buying your car 12 months down the line the mismatch would cause me to ask serious questions , which may limit your market come resale time , in addition any dealer would notice and possibly chip you on the value .
If it were me , I would seek a suitable repair under warranty as the difference visible in the photo's is just too obvious . If the OPC or PGB are not playing ball reject .
Having worked in the industry for 35 years I have come across this scenario on many occasions , and in my experience the manufacturer has without exception made good the appearance under the terms of the warranty ( please note I have never been involved in the Porsche network ).
As has been said you can continue to enjoy the vehicle for what it is , however if I was buying your car 12 months down the line the mismatch would cause me to ask serious questions , which may limit your market come resale time , in addition any dealer would notice and possibly chip you on the value .
If it were me , I would seek a suitable repair under warranty as the difference visible in the photo's is just too obvious . If the OPC or PGB are not playing ball reject .
What about a device like this - http://www.pantone.co.uk/pages/Products/Product.as... - claims to measure the colour of any surface and provide the appropriate Pantone code...
Thanks for all the suggestions and info. I have been looking at the other options for quantifying the mismatch into figures and I would need one of these http://www.xrite.com/ma68ii-portable-spectrophotom... similar to the pantone one but an automotive variant that does metallic paint. I am trying to locate a body shop with something like this but as it costs thousands apparently and quite an investment, not everyone has one. It would also need to download the info to the computer to produce a data sheet. The paint thickness on the car has not been measured as the OPC was adamant there has been no transit damage and as it is the same on each side of the car and bearing in mind it was brand new there seemed little point. Depending on whether or not they accept rejection based on the reports, the spectro and paint measurement will be the next step. Now the dealer has been informed of my rejection I cannot use the car. As said the customer service response so far has been dreadful, let's see what they come back with. I will update.
Edited by Agent51 on Monday 4th August 17:14
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