Cumbrian Shell V power - a rant
Discussion
bigkeeko said:
Bought my last 997.2 C4S from a seriously respected specialist that told me that as long as the fuel was good quality 95 or 97 ron it made not one jot of difference to the performance of the car or of any benefit to the engine. I feel they were correct.
They are wrong! Better fuel is better for the car, short and long term... Google 5th gear fuel test.Jim1556 said:
bigkeeko said:
Bought my last 997.2 C4S from a seriously respected specialist that told me that as long as the fuel was good quality 95 or 97 ron it made not one jot of difference to the performance of the car or of any benefit to the engine. I feel they were correct.
They are wrong! Better fuel is better for the car, short and long term... Google 5th gear fuel test.SpudLink said:
The_Doc said:
I might sell my car and buy a trawler ship, fill up with fish oil and sail off to Ireland...
Nah, you don't wanna do that. V-Power over there is 95RON, unless they've beefed it up since I was there. Even Tesco don't sell Momentum in NI.
bigkeeko said:
Jim1556 said:
bigkeeko said:
Bought my last 997.2 C4S from a seriously respected specialist that told me that as long as the fuel was good quality 95 or 97 ron it made not one jot of difference to the performance of the car or of any benefit to the engine. I feel they were correct.
They are wrong! Better fuel is better for the car, short and long term... Google 5th gear fuel test.In fairness, he referenced better research than hearsay from a garage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTaBngvsPrc
The additives keep your engine clean. It's nice to the engine, but certainly not worthwhile if you keep cars for a couple of years. You're simply paying more for a future owner to benefit!
From a performance perspective, much more noticeable with a turbo engine in my experience. In some cars i've had better economy, which compensates for the additional cost.
hondansx said:
Now, that's not very nice, is it?
In fairness, he referenced better research than hearsay from a garage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTaBngvsPrc
The additives keep your engine clean. It's nice to the engine, but certainly not worthwhile if you keep cars for a couple of years. You're simply paying more for a future owner to benefit!
From a performance perspective, much more noticeable with a turbo engine in my experience. In some cars i've had better economy, which compensates for the additional cost.
I watched your video. Pretty much confirms what I thought (and knew) as well as backing up the `hearsay` from probably the most respected Porsche Indy there is. I use only V power in my current car because it needs it (tuned turbo charged car) but in a naturally aspirated car such as my 911 it made zero difference. Nothing. I've tried them all. BP is not good enough for any decent boosted application and neither is any supermarket offerings except possibly Tesco 99.In fairness, he referenced better research than hearsay from a garage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTaBngvsPrc
The additives keep your engine clean. It's nice to the engine, but certainly not worthwhile if you keep cars for a couple of years. You're simply paying more for a future owner to benefit!
From a performance perspective, much more noticeable with a turbo engine in my experience. In some cars i've had better economy, which compensates for the additional cost.
The_Doc said:
Here's what one of the forecourt staff told me last week:
"The base fuels are the same. But the only people to take a supply of 99 octane in the UK are Shell and Tesco - taking 100% of the UK capacity, and importing more from Holland, too!
As for additives - the oil multiples obviously spend a lot more on research, especially those with a heavy involvement in motorsport - whereas the supermarkets take an off the shelf additive pack, which may not even be consistent between deliveries.
Supermarket fuels won't cause the engine to gunk up in the short term, but he said they're pretty confident the non-supermarket additives will stop most carbonisation / varnish type deposits, as well as helping to clean what is there.
The interesting one is diesel - although there's no 'octane' as such - the Nitro+ diesel is definitely significantly cleaner - He said he ran a BMW and didn't suffer with any sooty deposits on the back of the car, and the DPF had never shown a regen cycle! "
interesting
I have noticed the later on my a3 tdi. I was getting a noticeable puff of soot when accelerating, 5 tankfulls of vpower nitro+ later and nothing. I don't have a DPF."The base fuels are the same. But the only people to take a supply of 99 octane in the UK are Shell and Tesco - taking 100% of the UK capacity, and importing more from Holland, too!
As for additives - the oil multiples obviously spend a lot more on research, especially those with a heavy involvement in motorsport - whereas the supermarkets take an off the shelf additive pack, which may not even be consistent between deliveries.
Supermarket fuels won't cause the engine to gunk up in the short term, but he said they're pretty confident the non-supermarket additives will stop most carbonisation / varnish type deposits, as well as helping to clean what is there.
The interesting one is diesel - although there's no 'octane' as such - the Nitro+ diesel is definitely significantly cleaner - He said he ran a BMW and didn't suffer with any sooty deposits on the back of the car, and the DPF had never shown a regen cycle! "
interesting
twoblacklines said:
The_Doc said:
Here's what one of the forecourt staff told me last week:
"The base fuels are the same. But the only people to take a supply of 99 octane in the UK are Shell and Tesco - taking 100% of the UK capacity, and importing more from Holland, too!
As for additives - the oil multiples obviously spend a lot more on research, especially those with a heavy involvement in motorsport - whereas the supermarkets take an off the shelf additive pack, which may not even be consistent between deliveries.
Supermarket fuels won't cause the engine to gunk up in the short term, but he said they're pretty confident the non-supermarket additives will stop most carbonisation / varnish type deposits, as well as helping to clean what is there.
The interesting one is diesel - although there's no 'octane' as such - the Nitro+ diesel is definitely significantly cleaner - He said he ran a BMW and didn't suffer with any sooty deposits on the back of the car, and the DPF had never shown a regen cycle! "
interesting
I have noticed the later on my a3 tdi. I was getting a noticeable puff of soot when accelerating, 5 tankfulls of vpower nitro+ later and nothing. I don't have a DPF."The base fuels are the same. But the only people to take a supply of 99 octane in the UK are Shell and Tesco - taking 100% of the UK capacity, and importing more from Holland, too!
As for additives - the oil multiples obviously spend a lot more on research, especially those with a heavy involvement in motorsport - whereas the supermarkets take an off the shelf additive pack, which may not even be consistent between deliveries.
Supermarket fuels won't cause the engine to gunk up in the short term, but he said they're pretty confident the non-supermarket additives will stop most carbonisation / varnish type deposits, as well as helping to clean what is there.
The interesting one is diesel - although there's no 'octane' as such - the Nitro+ diesel is definitely significantly cleaner - He said he ran a BMW and didn't suffer with any sooty deposits on the back of the car, and the DPF had never shown a regen cycle! "
interesting
woollyjoe said:
I know this is a post about a lack of Shell in Cumbria, but as a Shell fan and with the old man being a geologist in oil industry thought I would share some thoughts....
1. The "performance" diesels do not help the engine produce more power. They simply have additives that actually do clean the engine, but here is the thing, you do not need to use them all the time. Once every few fills, use the advanced diesel and it will help keep your engine clean. This is more beneficial for cars that have direct fuel injection (most cars TBH). These cleaners are fundamentally the same.
2. Petrol is trickier and genuinely different in what they do between brands and they do / should affect performance (not clean). All forecourt fuel is 95 RON already which is what majority of sports cars need, eg an Audi RS7 recommends 95 RON. Basically the fuel in the UK is amazing already so don't feel bad about Supermarket fuel.
That said, there is a TV programme that did a scientific test on the dyno for differing fuels. Shell came out best for power improvements, and Shell happens to be one of the best supply chains too. We're talking unnoticeable differences, but I like Shell fuel only in my Porsche and Audi (petrol and diesel premium only).
3. The trip computer will run to zero miles before you have around another 40 miles travel. Well, I found this through testing on my Porsche.
It's not the engine that needs keeping clean in a tdi, it is the turbocharger. Otherwise you get sticky vanes and then £1200 for a new turbo fitted, as I just found out personally much to the loss of my wallet. Especially if you have a functioning EGR system.1. The "performance" diesels do not help the engine produce more power. They simply have additives that actually do clean the engine, but here is the thing, you do not need to use them all the time. Once every few fills, use the advanced diesel and it will help keep your engine clean. This is more beneficial for cars that have direct fuel injection (most cars TBH). These cleaners are fundamentally the same.
2. Petrol is trickier and genuinely different in what they do between brands and they do / should affect performance (not clean). All forecourt fuel is 95 RON already which is what majority of sports cars need, eg an Audi RS7 recommends 95 RON. Basically the fuel in the UK is amazing already so don't feel bad about Supermarket fuel.
That said, there is a TV programme that did a scientific test on the dyno for differing fuels. Shell came out best for power improvements, and Shell happens to be one of the best supply chains too. We're talking unnoticeable differences, but I like Shell fuel only in my Porsche and Audi (petrol and diesel premium only).
3. The trip computer will run to zero miles before you have around another 40 miles travel. Well, I found this through testing on my Porsche.
Soooo. thread update.
The Shell garage in the middle of Carlisle has had its tanks filled-in and abandoned by Shell as they couldn't get an insurance requested guarantee that it won't flood out again. Nice to know eh?
So I buy SuperUL from Tesco's, where they have 99 RON and Shell on the A69 east of Brampton. Usually in a ratio of 3:1 visits.
Nobody is really interested in premium petrol in North Cumbria, should have worked this out really as there's no Porsche/Supercar/etc dealership nearby.
The point about UK average non-premium petrol being RON 95 is well made, the US having averages around 87. We should just be happy with what we have. I do believe all the stuff about additives in Branded petrol.
The_Doc said:
The point about UK average non-premium petrol being RON 95 is well made, the US having averages around 87. We should just be happy with what we have. I do believe all the stuff about additives in Branded petrol.
The US fuel rating cannot be directly compaired to the U.K./EU RON ratings, I believe they use a different rating as standard. I think the US fuel could be inferior RON wise to U.K. but not by anything like the difference that 87 vs 95 would suggest.All of the majors have contracts with the Oil Refineries around the UK to stock the local fuel stations.
There is no "BP" or "Shell" fuel etc .just like there is no "Morrisons" or "Asda" fuel.
The trucks queue up night and day, all filling from the same tank, with tiny amounts of additive added, to be able to quantify claims being made from running new cars for a million hours on the stuff.
As for 97/99/100 RON being the good stuff, its not like 95 RON is thrown together with a that'll do attitude.
Its just a different product that all vehicles sold in the UK should run on perfectly happily.
Of course, if a vehicle can sense the high octane fuel then it will deliver more performance from the high octane rated product.
Any fuel Terminal can be caught out by importing contaminated product but that will affect all fuel sold from there, including the majors.
Apologies for this going off topic from the OP.
I run a fuel terminal for a living. I don't work in the deli at Asda.
There is no "BP" or "Shell" fuel etc .just like there is no "Morrisons" or "Asda" fuel.
The trucks queue up night and day, all filling from the same tank, with tiny amounts of additive added, to be able to quantify claims being made from running new cars for a million hours on the stuff.
As for 97/99/100 RON being the good stuff, its not like 95 RON is thrown together with a that'll do attitude.
Its just a different product that all vehicles sold in the UK should run on perfectly happily.
Of course, if a vehicle can sense the high octane fuel then it will deliver more performance from the high octane rated product.
Any fuel Terminal can be caught out by importing contaminated product but that will affect all fuel sold from there, including the majors.
Apologies for this going off topic from the OP.
I run a fuel terminal for a living. I don't work in the deli at Asda.
Green1man said:
The US fuel rating cannot be directly compaired to the U.K./EU RON ratings, I believe they use a different rating as standard. I think the US fuel could be inferior RON wise to U.K. but not by anything like the difference that 87 vs 95 would suggest.
I recall US fuel has a RON of 93 vs our 95 for standard unleaded.But historically, they've run big engines and low compression, so it was never critical over there.
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