Goodbye 997 GTS, Hello Cayman GT4
Discussion
Dominique997GTS said:
Allow me to revive this thread.
I am in exactly the same position currently: I was given an offer on my manual 997 C2 GTS coupe (with 44000 km), which is 10% higher than what I paid for it end of 2019 when it had 28000km. It is very tempting to accept the offer and jump into a 981 GT4. It might be a unique opportunity because I drive the GTS almost daily (about 10000km/year) and I doubt whether I will get this price within 3-4 years time when the car has about 80000km. The GTS is also five years older than the GT4, so more likely for things starting to fail.
I wonder how the 997 GTS and 981 GT4 compare as daily drivers?
As a former 997 GTS owner and current 981 GT4 owner… I am in exactly the same position currently: I was given an offer on my manual 997 C2 GTS coupe (with 44000 km), which is 10% higher than what I paid for it end of 2019 when it had 28000km. It is very tempting to accept the offer and jump into a 981 GT4. It might be a unique opportunity because I drive the GTS almost daily (about 10000km/year) and I doubt whether I will get this price within 3-4 years time when the car has about 80000km. The GTS is also five years older than the GT4, so more likely for things starting to fail.
I wonder how the 997 GTS and 981 GT4 compare as daily drivers?
997 GTS is a better all-rounder and if you want more excitement, can be lightly tweaked to be sharper, depending on your usage.
Also having a Manual is a bit of special spice. Mine was PDK and was principally the reason I moved on, as next Gen PDK was made it ‘obsolete’ in terms of feeling.
What do you think you’d be wanting from a GT4?
If my 997 GTS had been a manual car (sadly it was a PDK) I think I would still own it....
GT4 was great fun but I found it too much of a compromise for my typical road use, I now have a 981 Spyder which addresses these issues and is IMO the better fast road car for my usage. And it looks sensational!
GT4 was great fun but I found it too much of a compromise for my typical road use, I now have a 981 Spyder which addresses these issues and is IMO the better fast road car for my usage. And it looks sensational!
I went from the 997GTS manual to a 981 spyder. The spyder was the better car overall especially if you want an event. However I wouldnt swap a manual GTS for a GT4. Im road use only these days and the 981 spyder is better judged for this. The only things better on the 997GTS were the gearing and ultimately the engine. Also the steering was overrated. The spyder had better suspension. I fitted specifically mapped DSC to my 997 which improved things but like all I have experienced suffers from cavitation. So I dont really rate PASM vs passive and neither my 997GTS nor current 991.2 GTS (better) PASM match the 981spyder passive.
I know its not a GT product but I would swap again for a 981 spyder but its very close and the 997GTS manual is a rare beast.
I know its not a GT product but I would swap again for a 981 spyder but its very close and the 997GTS manual is a rare beast.
Very interesting to read your stories. The 981 Spyder is a stunning-looking car and has passed my review process as well ;-) The 981 GT4 however is a bit more sporty-looking and from some angles (3/4 from behind) is just that tiny bit better-looking than the Spyder (IMO).
I have test-driven a Spyder before and it drives wonderfully, very much of an experience, partly because of the exhaust noise entering the cabin (even with the roof up). The sound was great, albeit a little bit 'artificial' (during throttle lift-off) compared to the 997 GTS and GT4.
The problem, at this moment, is that the 981 Spyders are a little bit too expensive IMO. I think they have gone up in the past two years and going for 85-90k euro for low-mileage examples (in Germany and Belgium), which I think is quite high. Nonetheless, the same can be said for the manual 997 GTS, that same price range is also quite strong for the GTS and I don't think they can go much higher than this.
I have test-driven a Spyder before and it drives wonderfully, very much of an experience, partly because of the exhaust noise entering the cabin (even with the roof up). The sound was great, albeit a little bit 'artificial' (during throttle lift-off) compared to the 997 GTS and GT4.
The problem, at this moment, is that the 981 Spyders are a little bit too expensive IMO. I think they have gone up in the past two years and going for 85-90k euro for low-mileage examples (in Germany and Belgium), which I think is quite high. Nonetheless, the same can be said for the manual 997 GTS, that same price range is also quite strong for the GTS and I don't think they can go much higher than this.
kilarney said:
The only things better on the 997GTS were the gearing and ultimately the engine.
The gearing I definitely agree: 130 km/h in 2nd in the Spyder vs 110 km/h in the GTS. The GTS gearing is more useable on the road and easier to get the engine to redline (at more or less legal speeds).But what do you mean with the engine of the GTS ultimately better? Better sounding, more reliable...?
Dominique997GTS said:
kilarney said:
The only things better on the 997GTS were the gearing and ultimately the engine.
The gearing I definitely agree: 130 km/h in 2nd in the Spyder vs 110 km/h in the GTS. The GTS gearing is more useable on the road and easier to get the engine to redline (at more or less legal speeds).But what do you mean with the engine of the GTS ultimately better? Better sounding, more reliable...?
Dominique997GTS said:
The gearing I definitely agree: 130 km/h in 2nd in the Spyder vs 110 km/h in the GTS. The GTS gearing is more useable on the road and easier to get the engine to redline (at more or less legal speeds).
But what do you mean with the engine of the GTS ultimately better? Better sounding, more reliable...?
Explained by Cheib. But what do you mean with the engine of the GTS ultimately better? Better sounding, more reliable...?
Bottom line the GTS engine is allowed to breathe to its full potential whereas the spyder engine deliberately isnt and if you have had a 997GTS it feels like it, the gearing exacerbates this .
Also the contrived exhaust sound on the spyder swamps the induction sound in the spyder which it doesnt in the GTS which is much more to my preference as its sweeter/refined.
IMO much like its easy to make a car handle with a ride like a trolley jack so it is with the emotion of an engine with a noisy exhaust. The trick is to handle with a ride (lotus) and sound of an engine (Fezza V12)
Im often on my own on this though.
I modified my spyder to make it breathe better which it did but I still preferred the GTS engine /box combination.
Well.. if I can summarize the previous comments then the 981 GT4/Spyder is not a big step-up regarding performance/engine/gearing/looks.. compared to the manual 997 GTS. The car has also been super reliable (actually thinking of not renewing the Porsche Approved), which is important for a daily.
May be the GTS is really that sweet spot of the 997 range (still the 'real' watercooled 911s IMO) as many say, and I should just keep it and drive it for some more years. Depreciation for sure will not happen anymore, in the contrary. I think after some time, it will become a real classic, somewhat like the Carrera (4)S for the 993 range.
May be the GTS is really that sweet spot of the 997 range (still the 'real' watercooled 911s IMO) as many say, and I should just keep it and drive it for some more years. Depreciation for sure will not happen anymore, in the contrary. I think after some time, it will become a real classic, somewhat like the Carrera (4)S for the 993 range.
Dominique997GTS said:
Well.. if I can summarize the previous comments then the 981 GT4/Spyder is not a big step-up regarding performance/engine/gearing/looks.. compared to the manual 997 GTS. The car has also been super reliable (actually thinking of not renewing the Porsche Approved), which is important for a daily.
May be the GTS is really that sweet spot of the 997 range (still the 'real' watercooled 911s IMO) as many say, and I should just keep it and drive it for some more years. Depreciation for sure will not happen anymore, in the contrary. I think after some time, it will become a real classic, somewhat like the Carrera (4)S for the 993 range.
It’s a different proposition... and having owned both.. it’s really down to what I mentioned before... what are you intending to do with it? They aren’t really comparable or cross shopped. May be the GTS is really that sweet spot of the 997 range (still the 'real' watercooled 911s IMO) as many say, and I should just keep it and drive it for some more years. Depreciation for sure will not happen anymore, in the contrary. I think after some time, it will become a real classic, somewhat like the Carrera (4)S for the 993 range.
I’d say if you are going to track the car a lot... a 981 GT4 is far superior.
If predominantly road... 997 GTS Manual is far superior.
With this is mind you could easily have both in the stable for different application.
So it’ horses for courses. Right tool for the job.
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