R or GT4

[av185]

kilarney said:

I agree also GT4 for a coupe however I would say 987 or 981 for the spyder with the 981 ahead as it got the special engine and imo looks

+1

[WCZ]

mdianuk said:

GT4 is superior to the R in every way, imo.

+1

[Porsche911R]

All these + ones for this "special engine"

Please expand on this "special engine" more for the rest of us please.

[Porsche911R]

n17ves said:

Changing gear at 6.5k would make the GT4 very SLOW! This car needs to be revved.

GT4 is no faster redlining the gear change sorry to say, in fact it's faster to short shift it.
here are 2 over laps on 2 laps, the blue is a short shifted lap and that plot shows no gain from the green line
in fact one could say the blue line is the nicer/faster plot all be it nats cock in it.
After the blue shift the cars pulling harder and going faster than the green red line shift.




There are many many Dyno runs from the GT4, the drop off after 6.5k is hugh in BHP and Torque.

[GT4P]

Now all we need is cmoose to join in for it to spiral out of control!

[av185]

[DJMC]

OP (who lit fuse and retired) question seems to be about values only?
I think R values will stay level or increase over short term, whereas GT4 values still have a way to fall before they level off, then perhaps rise again.

As for actual driving ( ), I like my 2.7 PDK 981 better than the 3.4S I test drove prior to purchase, ergo it is better than the R or GT4... for me. Future value-wise, I don't give a hoot. 250k miles and worth a grand in 20 years time will reflect my smiles over those miles.

Unless buying purely for investment, buy whichever you prefer to drive?

[n17ves]

Porsche911R said:

n17ves said:

Changing gear at 6.5k would make the GT4 very SLOW! This car needs to be revved.

GT4 is no faster redlining the gear change sorry to say, in fact it's faster to short shift it.
here are 2 over laps on 2 laps, the blue is a short shifted lap and that plot shows no gain from the green line
in fact one could say the blue line is the nicer/faster plot all be it nats cock in it.
After the blue shift the cars pulling harder and going faster than the green red line shift.




There are many many Dyno runs from the GT4, the drop off after 6.5k is hugh in BHP and Torque.

The first graph has so many undeclared variables in it, you can hardly draw any conclusion from it. Furthermore, the green line is starting at lower speed and rpm than the blue line, yet still seems to catch up the blue line. Meaningless argument anyway, too many variables to draw any conclusion from that and I'm not getting drawn in any further.

The dyno graph you posted basically backs up what I just said. I was always one of the few that had my car dyno'd, so can easinly do the same exercise on my graph.

Im just genuinely shocked you actually believe in this short shifting, but if that's what you believe... (must be very slow/boring to drive a GT4 on track like that).

[n17ves]

Porsche911R said:

All these + ones for this "special engine"

Please expand on this "special engine" more for the rest of us please.

Sublime was the word I use.

n17ves said:

The engine is absolutely sublime, sounds outstanding, fantastically free revving (superb for heal and toe) and loves to be redlined.

Crisp throttle response, zero lag (na afterall), free revving (lightweight flywheel helps), loves to be revved generally (7.8k limiter), sounds immense, doesn't rattle itself to pieces over 6k, linear full throttle mapping, part throttle mapping is smooth, idles without any lumpiness, doesn't 'bunny hop' in stop/start traffic, no cold start issues, can take an absolutely beating around track, has a high bhp/litre output and has torque figures to match. Fuel economy is rubbish though.

Yeah, total lemon of an engine.

[Dr S]

GT4P said:

...IMHO and I know this will upset a few the CR although a very good car is no more than a caymanS plus...

What he said

[Fokker]

The R is a bit slow to be honest. I actually think the GT4 could do with being faster but out of the two I would go GT4 or indeed 981 Spyder all the way.

Also I have owned both.

[Twinfan]

n17ves said:

Yeah, total lemon of an engine.

I don't think anyone's saying it's a lemon, just that it's not that special and could be made better. Personally, I don't think it's any more special than the 3.4, it's just different

[franki68]

Th gt4 Engine isn't special in relation to previous gt models ,buts it's very special compared to virtually every other car you can buy new these days.

[Porsche911R]

Twinfan said:

I don't think anyone's saying it's a lemon, just that it's not that special and could be made better. Personally, I don't think it's any more special than the 3.4, it's just different

He said it for effect, but it was a stupid comment to make.

It's not this "special Engine" talked about by these new owners for sure, it's just a detuned 911S 3.8 basic lump.
And he would be 1st in line to swap it for a GT4 with a GTS engine in if one came up.

As it's a GT car and the 911 GTS gets an engine more suited for a GT drive, it feels a bit meh, and to me the 3.4 feels a sweeter unit, it's def more fun to wring out the 3.4 than the 3.8.

[Twinfan]

franki68 said:

Th gt4 Engine isn't special in relation to previous gt models ,buts it's very special compared to virtually every other car you can buy new these days.

As is the 3.4

[isaldiri]

n17ves said:

The dyno graph you posted basically backs up what I just said. I was always one of the few that had my car dyno'd, so can easinly do the same exercise on my graph.

Im just genuinely shocked you actually believe in this short shifting, but if that's what you believe... (must be very slow/boring to drive a GT4 on track like that).

I think it's probably accurate to say that short shifting the gt4 can make it accelerate a bit faster as iirc the optimum shift point of maximum accelerative force on 3rd gears and above was a touch before the redline (as per fioran0's graph with crossover of force vs speed). I'd assume that's at ~7400 rpm which is where you get peak power per the official Porsche power curve. It's certainly not at 6500 rpm anyway



and I don't get why some people eulogise about revving out the 3.4 when power flatlines at about 6500 just like the gt4 tbh...

[GT4P]

Like said before its like comparing apples with oranges, a £90k v £45k car 3.4 v 3.8! It's like comparing a 991 gt3 with a 991 3.4!
A better question would be. £45k CR vs £55k GTS both have same engine and are coming to a similar price point!
Or perhaps a gt4 vs a 991 .1/2 S both at a similar price point
Said my bit now " I'm out"

[Porsche911R]

The 3.4 also drops off but not so fast and it's not a GT car.

The Porsche fake dyno plot is a est imo and there are 40 or 50 GT4 dyno graphs which show peak to be at 6.5k revs and a hugh drop off after.

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

Porsche911R said:

The debate will go on for 52 pages what is better and what is not, what has the best engine, steering etc etc.

They all have plus points and they all have minus points.

I do wonder what people post 1/2 the time about engines as the 981 GT4 is not a fun engine at all, it makes max BHP at 6.5k revs but goes to 7.7k revs which is pointless, although the plus point is changing at 6.5k you don't notice the long gearing ! I like the 3.4 dfi lump better as it happens, it's a sweet reving unit.
yes the GT4 has a 3.8 but who cares ! it's a detuned one ! the GT4 was crying out for the 3.8 GTS engine.

The steering on any 981 cannot match the 987. So that rules out the 981 GTS as any great car, nice cars but not great cars. But again if you only want one car, and it to be nicer than a R inside a GTS is a ok shout and better daily.
PASM still sucks imo, even the race cars had to ditch PASM for a set of KW shocks.

So when it comes to what's best you just have to own all 3 :-), I cannot say I like one more than another.

But here is a good one for you as I own all 3, If I had to only have ONE out of the 3 it would be the R, but owning all 3 the R would be the 1st one I would sell. (this is because the GT4 and 987.2 Spyder make the best combo)

But if you have 50k and only want one car the R does every thing to a good standard for a fun car which you can use.
Then you decide if it an R you want or a 981 GTS with the sports sus not PASM !

The R is smaller, it has amazing steering, does more Mpg, 1/2 the price to tax, smaller wheels/tyres. and is more fun at lower speeds than the GT4. So for road use the GT4 offers nothing over the R.

GT4 is very GT and is the track car of choice by a mile, so if you want to track a car more than say 3 times a year the GT4 is the right car and is a good daily, but a bit in your face with a big wing.

Have a great 52 page debate as imo they are very different cars, the R is the future 964 RS though.
The 987.2 is already one of Porsche best ever cars and feels undervalued when 996 GT3's go for £300k !

The GT4 well if they put the 991.1 GTS engine in it, then I want a new one, if they put a 4 pot in it then prices will go up and I will keep mine and put a lightweight flywheel in it and tune the engine back to >400 BHp.

If they bring out a 991.2 GT3 4.0 manual at £130k then I'll swap the GT4 and R for it and pair that with my 987.2 Spyder.
but you know my stance on the next GT3 :-)

Lets enjoy our cars, they are all great cars and I am sure owners of each car will stick up for what they own.

Demon gets slated a lot around this forum but there is much sense expressed in the above post; '964RS' comment aside

Lovely little trio you have there

Hopefully everyone will stick to banter rather than the usual in this thread.

guys

[boxsey]

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

Demon gets slated a lot around this forum but there is much sense expressed in the above post; '964RS' comment aside

Lovely little trio you have there

Hopefully everyone will stick to banter rather than the usual in this thread.

guys

To be fair, David's 964RS comment reflects what some of us former 964C2/964RS owners that have changed to Cayman Rs think. And there are quite a few of us that have done so. The comment is not about value (even though this thread is essentially yet another one about future values). It's about the difference in the feel of the standard car and the R/RS version. No matter how much a 964C2 was modified it could never obtain that special feel and focus of the 964RS. Although the Cayman R does not have such extensive differences from the S that the 964RS had compared to the 964C2, it has that same philosophy of being a little bit more powerful, a little bit lighter and little bit more focused. Hence that's why to us the Cayman R feels more special than the Cayman S.

and I agree about the...