Hartech rebuild
Discussion
Two points, it would IMHO add the full cost of the Hartech work , think of it, the next owner is getting a Hartech engined car off the shelf without having to wait for the work to be done. Secondly, there are a good number of prospective buyers who would only buy a 996/7 with a Hartech rebuild . You takes your chances ! Buy a non Hartech one and you are likely to get away with it, but then you might not if the small chance of one going pop does happen.
I don't think it would add much/any value at all, and certainly not at trade in, it would just allow it to be sold at the very top of what you could expect for that year, spec and mileage, and would possibly sell fast.
If you weren't in a hurry at all you could try for a few k more on a private sale. Not that I'm diminishing Hartech's work but the market doesn't really work that way in that most buyers would rather one without a rebuild and wouldn't understand the value in a Hartech rebuild. There are buyers who know all about these engines but it's easy to think that everyone does just because you spend a lot of time on Pistonheads. However they don't. My friend sold a 5 series recently, the guy that bought it didn't know the difference between SE and MSport, you'd think that was absolute day 1 basic knowledge too.
The market does not like new engines & non-original mods, out of a sort of mass ignorance - look how crap PCM is yet a car with a £4000 new system in (like my old one) would not be worth a penny more despite being hugely improved over the original spec
Unfortunately the best way of getting a good price for this sort of car, a 'I'm thinking of selling' post has now been closed off to us too.
I don't think the market for 996 and 997's really stacks up any more. £15k for a well looked after 10-15 year old car, with anything from a 5% to 100% chance of a £10k bill that will add no value whatsoever... or £25k for a 6-8 year old DFI 987 3.4 Boxster / Cayman S with a far more reliable unit and no worries
If you weren't in a hurry at all you could try for a few k more on a private sale. Not that I'm diminishing Hartech's work but the market doesn't really work that way in that most buyers would rather one without a rebuild and wouldn't understand the value in a Hartech rebuild. There are buyers who know all about these engines but it's easy to think that everyone does just because you spend a lot of time on Pistonheads. However they don't. My friend sold a 5 series recently, the guy that bought it didn't know the difference between SE and MSport, you'd think that was absolute day 1 basic knowledge too.
The market does not like new engines & non-original mods, out of a sort of mass ignorance - look how crap PCM is yet a car with a £4000 new system in (like my old one) would not be worth a penny more despite being hugely improved over the original spec
Unfortunately the best way of getting a good price for this sort of car, a 'I'm thinking of selling' post has now been closed off to us too.
I don't think the market for 996 and 997's really stacks up any more. £15k for a well looked after 10-15 year old car, with anything from a 5% to 100% chance of a £10k bill that will add no value whatsoever... or £25k for a 6-8 year old DFI 987 3.4 Boxster / Cayman S with a far more reliable unit and no worries
I'm of the opinion that a full Hartech rebuild adds about £2000 to the price. Certainly this is what I found when I was looking for a 996. It took me a year to find a good one that had had the full Hartech works and the seller had driven only 10k miles since that rebuild. I paid around £2k more than comparable cars that were being advertised that hadn't had a rebuild.
Do be careful to check exactly what has been done though. I see quite a few cars advertised as having a 'rebuild', which could be anything from the bare minimum to the full works. Hartech really don't help themselves in this regard by refusing to talk to people about the work they've carried out on a car. When I phoned them up, they were less than useless, and spouted off utter nonsense about not being able to discuss the work due to '"data protection law". Luckily the seller had very detailed paperwork and invoices detailing exactly what had been done.
They are certainly a bargain. I don't really understand why they don't attract more of a premium once they've had the engines sorted out, as that is pretty much the main reason why prices are so depressed compared to every other 911.
I've now added another 25k miles to the car. Wonderful machines, and well worth seeking one out that's had a rebuild. It's worth it for the peace of mind.
Do be careful to check exactly what has been done though. I see quite a few cars advertised as having a 'rebuild', which could be anything from the bare minimum to the full works. Hartech really don't help themselves in this regard by refusing to talk to people about the work they've carried out on a car. When I phoned them up, they were less than useless, and spouted off utter nonsense about not being able to discuss the work due to '"data protection law". Luckily the seller had very detailed paperwork and invoices detailing exactly what had been done.
They are certainly a bargain. I don't really understand why they don't attract more of a premium once they've had the engines sorted out, as that is pretty much the main reason why prices are so depressed compared to every other 911.
I've now added another 25k miles to the car. Wonderful machines, and well worth seeking one out that's had a rebuild. It's worth it for the peace of mind.
porkey said:
Well, I'm looking for a 996/997 ideally with a recent engine rebuild. If anyone has one that they are thing of selling, I might be interested.
The irony is that despite the naysayers spouting the 'chocolate engine' line, you try finding one that's had a rebuild! If they were as numerous as made out then there'd be loads for sale.I personally took the chance, that was 7.5yrs ago, if it goes then I'll send it to Hartech and know it's been done properly.
Agree with poster above, for anybody that knows who Hartech are (many don't, even existing owners) then a rebuild may add a small amount but nowhere near the cost of the work.
If I were selling mine I'd simply aim toward the top of the sensible end of the market for a 996 Carrera 4 in the same sort of condition. I'd refuse to budge too much on the price although this clearly depends on why I was selling!
When I was looking for my car I was very interested in a car with a 'full Hartech rebuild' that turned out to be an overhaul of one head and the replacement of a piston (or something very similar) rather than the full fat option that I eventually had done on my car. My final bill including VAT was £11,760 as I went for everything and fixed / replaced a few other little bits and pieces along the way such as a new clutch, water pump, PSE valves, Air-Oil separator, a cam sensor and some other little bits and pieces.
When I was looking for my car I was very interested in a car with a 'full Hartech rebuild' that turned out to be an overhaul of one head and the replacement of a piston (or something very similar) rather than the full fat option that I eventually had done on my car. My final bill including VAT was £11,760 as I went for everything and fixed / replaced a few other little bits and pieces along the way such as a new clutch, water pump, PSE valves, Air-Oil separator, a cam sensor and some other little bits and pieces.
Rocketsocks said:
I'm of the opinion that a full Hartech rebuild adds about £2000 to the price. Certainly this is what I found when I was looking for a 996. It took me a year to find a good one that had had the full Hartech works and the seller had driven only 10k miles since that rebuild. I paid around £2k more than comparable cars that were being advertised that hadn't had a rebuild.
Do be careful to check exactly what has been done though. I see quite a few cars advertised as having a 'rebuild', which could be anything from the bare minimum to the full works. Hartech really don't help themselves in this regard by refusing to talk to people about the work they've carried out on a car. When I phoned them up, they were less than useless, and spouted off utter nonsense about not being able to discuss the work due to '"data protection law". Luckily the seller had very detailed paperwork and invoices detailing exactly what had been done.
They are certainly a bargain. I don't really understand why they don't attract more of a premium once they've had the engines sorted out, as that is pretty much the main reason why prices are so depressed compared to every other 911.
I've now added another 25k miles to the car. Wonderful machines, and well worth seeking one out that's had a rebuild. It's worth it for the peace of mind.
Discussing potentially sensitive information is a delicate subject and puts us in a very difficult position which can be frustrating for all concerned. We're usually really open and try our best to be helpful but need to consider the wider implications and have based our position on advice from the regulators. Do be careful to check exactly what has been done though. I see quite a few cars advertised as having a 'rebuild', which could be anything from the bare minimum to the full works. Hartech really don't help themselves in this regard by refusing to talk to people about the work they've carried out on a car. When I phoned them up, they were less than useless, and spouted off utter nonsense about not being able to discuss the work due to '"data protection law". Luckily the seller had very detailed paperwork and invoices detailing exactly what had been done.
They are certainly a bargain. I don't really understand why they don't attract more of a premium once they've had the engines sorted out, as that is pretty much the main reason why prices are so depressed compared to every other 911.
I've now added another 25k miles to the car. Wonderful machines, and well worth seeking one out that's had a rebuild. It's worth it for the peace of mind.
Some people are quite open about the work we've carried out for them whilst others prefer to keep it private. We feel we have to respect owners wishes so won't discuss someone else's information without their permission. This can be frustrating for the person trying to get the info at the time but most people understand.
If the paperwork is with the car's history then it makes life a lot easier - I interpret the inclusion of such paperwork as an understanding that it's free to discuss (otherwise it would have been held back). So, if a prospective purchaser rings me with a copy of the invoice in front of them I'm usually happy to chat about it's content and verify things.
If the paperwork isn't present then I can email our customer at the time for permission to discuss the work - usually they oblige but if they don't want us to discuss what they regard as their personal information I feel it is only right and proper to respect their wishes.
As it's such a difficult position some of my colleagues may be a little over-protective to make sure they don't slip up but their intentions are entirely honourable. I'm the best guy to speak to about these sorts of enquiries so if anyone needs my input please ring me directly on 01204 302809 (option 1).
I hope you understand.
Grant
porkey said:
Difficult to say, it's a Tip 4 Cab which is only going to appeal to a very few people I would have thought.Mario149 said:
porkey said:
Difficult to say, it's a Tip 4 Cab which is only going to appeal to a very few people I would have thought.There is this cat d 4s manual which mentions Hartech but no details so could be anything from just a service. Its been for sale for a little while.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272551257626
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272551257626
ATM said:
There is this cat d 4s manual which mentions Hartech but no details so could be anything from just a service. Its been for sale for a little while.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272551257626
Assuming your standard 25% discount for a Cat D, that would be £20K for a 135K mile C4S, which is strong money when you have stuff like this avaiable from a known dealer:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272551257626
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
m444ttb said:
If I were selling mine I'd simply aim toward the top of the sensible end of the market for a 996 Carrera 4 in the same sort of condition. I'd refuse to budge too much on the price although this clearly depends on why I was selling!
When I was looking for my car I was very interested in a car with a 'full Hartech rebuild' that turned out to be an overhaul of one head and the replacement of a piston (or something very similar) rather than the full fat option that I eventually had done on my car. My final bill including VAT was £11,760 as I went for everything and fixed / replaced a few other little bits and pieces along the way such as a new clutch, water pump, PSE valves, Air-Oil separator, a cam sensor and some other little bits and pieces.
Would it be normal to replace just 1 cylinder rather than all 6?When I was looking for my car I was very interested in a car with a 'full Hartech rebuild' that turned out to be an overhaul of one head and the replacement of a piston (or something very similar) rather than the full fat option that I eventually had done on my car. My final bill including VAT was £11,760 as I went for everything and fixed / replaced a few other little bits and pieces along the way such as a new clutch, water pump, PSE valves, Air-Oil separator, a cam sensor and some other little bits and pieces.
Given that failures commonly affect cylinders 5 and 6 I'd consider work to one cylinder to be insufficient to prevent future issues. If I was doing the work to my own car I'd do all 6 for good measure although cyl 1,2,3 on bank 1 never cause the issue, it's only 1k more on a 12k bill. The value of Hartech is the upgrading they do.
And regarding few being for sale advertising a rebuild, well I wouldn't be selling a car in a hurry for £25k that I'd just spent £12k repairing! And probably loads of sellers wouldn't even mention it in the ad.
And regarding few being for sale advertising a rebuild, well I wouldn't be selling a car in a hurry for £25k that I'd just spent £12k repairing! And probably loads of sellers wouldn't even mention it in the ad.
It's about 2 years ago now but I saw a 996 advertised with a trader for (IIRC) £8k with 200k miles on the clock, 35k of which were on a Hartech rebuilt engine.
Must admit I was tempted but couldn't afford the divorce.
If that deal came up again, all things considered, I would be very tempted, and wouldn't need to get divorced, either!
Must admit I was tempted but couldn't afford the divorce.
If that deal came up again, all things considered, I would be very tempted, and wouldn't need to get divorced, either!
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