Ex Magazine Project Car
Discussion
Hi, I am looking for some advice on buying a used Porsche 996 C4. I have been to see a modified car that was featured for 3 years as a project car in Total 911 magazine. The car has had all major parts upgraded and has shown me many magazine articles where the car has had a full custom exhaust, custom remap, suspension, brakes, gearbox recondition, new clutch and light weight fly, IMS and RMS also done at same time about 14000miles ago. Also has a strong service history with regular work by an independent specialist.
Having driven two other 996 i am confident that this car is mechanically in top condition, it sounds incredible and drives really well and feels a lot faster than the other versions have driven one. The vendor has also agreed subject to a deposit and agreed sale i can have the car independently checked over which puts my mind at rest. Chap is asking for £20,000 and I chanced an offer of £15000 which was rejected. I feel there is a middle ground.
My one concern is the price, how much of a premium should be paid knowing that all major components have been upgraded to a high standard and does an ex-project car have provenance? Enough to justify £5-7000 above market. I have proof that everything that is said to have been done, has been done.
Link here (sorry no piston head advert, should knock at least 2k off for that!) -
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
All thoughts and options are welcome. Happy to discuss.
Many thanks, Dan.
Having driven two other 996 i am confident that this car is mechanically in top condition, it sounds incredible and drives really well and feels a lot faster than the other versions have driven one. The vendor has also agreed subject to a deposit and agreed sale i can have the car independently checked over which puts my mind at rest. Chap is asking for £20,000 and I chanced an offer of £15000 which was rejected. I feel there is a middle ground.
My one concern is the price, how much of a premium should be paid knowing that all major components have been upgraded to a high standard and does an ex-project car have provenance? Enough to justify £5-7000 above market. I have proof that everything that is said to have been done, has been done.
Link here (sorry no piston head advert, should knock at least 2k off for that!) -
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
All thoughts and options are welcome. Happy to discuss.
Many thanks, Dan.
Dan it appears a good example. The only thing I picked up on was the weight. It will not be below 1380kg from what I can see in the pictures and spec (C4 is 50kg heavier than a bare stock C2). Also this car has sunroof, A/C, rear wiper, heavy 18" wheels... But it is neither here nor there for this very well specced and looked after car. The gearbox work alone is getting on for £4k. You will be lucky to get any discount as it seems very well priced. I'd come in at £18K and be happy if you pick that up for £19K. Then drive the socks off it and maintain the service history for most likely zero cost motoring during your ownership.
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
Dan it appears a good example. The only thing I picked up on was the weight. It will not be below 1380kg from what I can see in the pictures and spec (C4 is 50kg heavier than a bare stock C2). Also this car has sunroof, A/C, rear wiper, heavy 18" wheels... But it is neither here nor there for this very well specced and looked after car. The gearbox work alone is getting on for £4k. You will be lucky to get any discount as it seems very well priced. I'd come in at £18K and be happy if you pick that up for £19K. Then drive the socks off it and maintain the service history for most likely zero cost motoring during your ownership.
Thanks for the advice, really appreciated. Good point on weight might mention to him. It is really pushing limits with the upper end but thinking similar thoughts. Cheers!I drove this car when it was for sale at RPM a few years back.
It had a nasty rattly brace across the back seat and the exhaust was way too loud.
As a C4 it wasn't for me, and I ended up with a C2 (which I kept for a year or so).
It was at the same price point back then.
Two ways of looking at it... its now a bargain because the equivalent C2 was 10k and is now 15k+. Or, they're asking for the same money for a car that's done a whole lot more miles.
Having watched the market a little bit, there are a few early teens cars out there. I've recently paid mid teens for a C2 and love it. I'm very glad to be back in a 996 - put 300 miles or so on it over the weekend. If you want the car, it drives spot on and can get it in budget then go for it.
They'll all need money spending, none of them are perfect, and although % difference between 15000 and 18000 is high, the quantum just isn't. Why wait?
It had a nasty rattly brace across the back seat and the exhaust was way too loud.
As a C4 it wasn't for me, and I ended up with a C2 (which I kept for a year or so).
It was at the same price point back then.
Two ways of looking at it... its now a bargain because the equivalent C2 was 10k and is now 15k+. Or, they're asking for the same money for a car that's done a whole lot more miles.
Having watched the market a little bit, there are a few early teens cars out there. I've recently paid mid teens for a C2 and love it. I'm very glad to be back in a 996 - put 300 miles or so on it over the weekend. If you want the car, it drives spot on and can get it in budget then go for it.
They'll all need money spending, none of them are perfect, and although % difference between 15000 and 18000 is high, the quantum just isn't. Why wait?
If I hadn't recently bought I'd be going to have a look at the black one with the kiwi interior that's under 10k to see how low he'd go.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
If the bodywork is ok and nothing big/imminent needs attention, its got to be worth a lowball offer, then running as a rolling project.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
If the bodywork is ok and nothing big/imminent needs attention, its got to be worth a lowball offer, then running as a rolling project.
I think mileage is too high to be a 20k car.
I sold my white aerokit c2 with just 55000 miles in march for a bit less than that which was also in really good condition.
It was re sold by knights garage for 22.5k.
I appreciate the condition u say the car is in but mileage counts when it comes to values imo
I sold my white aerokit c2 with just 55000 miles in march for a bit less than that which was also in really good condition.
It was re sold by knights garage for 22.5k.
I appreciate the condition u say the car is in but mileage counts when it comes to values imo
If you want a modified car, it looks good. It also has provenance which is nice. So if you like it, press on.
I don't think it's £5-£7k above equivalents. More like £2k if anything at all with that mileage. And the mileage is pretty unexceptional - many 996s are on 6 figures now.
It's not for me, I prefer low mileage and unmolested, but if it ticks your boxes I think it it has had the important bits done and for what it is probably represents fair value.
I don't think it's £5-£7k above equivalents. More like £2k if anything at all with that mileage. And the mileage is pretty unexceptional - many 996s are on 6 figures now.
It's not for me, I prefer low mileage and unmolested, but if it ticks your boxes I think it it has had the important bits done and for what it is probably represents fair value.
Lots of money for a 114k mile car, the extra bits don't add that much value, and more miles down the line, when all the "recent work" ages, will add zero, but the even higher mileage will subtract even more. In my eyes and probably those of many a C4 is not very desirable - I'd go for the S for the better looks and go, if not a boggo C2 if that appeals.
IMHO it's value at the moment is standing on stilts, the only way is down.
I would look at it differently. What else would 20k (and less) buy me? Including non-Porsche of course. Or non-911. 944, Turbo perhaps?
IMHO it's value at the moment is standing on stilts, the only way is down.
I would look at it differently. What else would 20k (and less) buy me? Including non-Porsche of course. Or non-911. 944, Turbo perhaps?
Thanks chaps, solid advice. Personally love the red interior and thought the exhaust sounded incredible but not too loud IMO but appreciate taste is subjective. All comments making me consider things though. Think I need to test a low mileage 996 2s or 4s £20k car to see how it compares. Cheers Dan.
I don't know why I'm defending a car that doesn't particularly appeal to me but here goes.
There's no such thing as a 996 2S. A 4S is a totally different proposition to a 996.1. Whilst I can see the visual appeal I never understand why people recommend a 2 or a 4S but not the 4. The 4S is wider, heavier and no more powerful than the 996.2. It only has the (allegedly more bore score-prone) 3.6 engine.
If you want a 3.4 996.1, 2 or 4 brings a little difference between steering feel and handling balance. Different but not necessarily better. There's not a lot more in it.
There's a school of thought that any 996 will cost £20k to get "right". You either buy cheap and spend, or you buy one that's sorted to begin with.
At the end of the day it's a personal thing of course, but make sure you understand the options and that those options actually exist!
There's no such thing as a 996 2S. A 4S is a totally different proposition to a 996.1. Whilst I can see the visual appeal I never understand why people recommend a 2 or a 4S but not the 4. The 4S is wider, heavier and no more powerful than the 996.2. It only has the (allegedly more bore score-prone) 3.6 engine.
If you want a 3.4 996.1, 2 or 4 brings a little difference between steering feel and handling balance. Different but not necessarily better. There's not a lot more in it.
There's a school of thought that any 996 will cost £20k to get "right". You either buy cheap and spend, or you buy one that's sorted to begin with.
At the end of the day it's a personal thing of course, but make sure you understand the options and that those options actually exist!
It would be interesting to understand how the power figures have been achieved and measured? I guess the information may be there from when it was a magazine project car. Some numbers below taken from a thread on 911uk for factory stats for the 3.4
3.4
Power: 300 PS @ 6,800 rpm
Torque: 258 lbft @ 4,600 rpm
Idle speed: 700 rpm
Rev limit: 7,300 rpm
3.4 X51
Power: 320 PS @ 6,600 rpm (corresponding to 252 lbft)
Torque: 266 lbft @ 5,000 rpm
Idle speed: 800 rpm
Rev limit: 7,400 rpm
3.4
Power: 300 PS @ 6,800 rpm
Torque: 258 lbft @ 4,600 rpm
Idle speed: 700 rpm
Rev limit: 7,300 rpm
3.4 X51
Power: 320 PS @ 6,600 rpm (corresponding to 252 lbft)
Torque: 266 lbft @ 5,000 rpm
Idle speed: 800 rpm
Rev limit: 7,400 rpm
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