DPF issues, car going into limp mode.
Discussion
I don't get this smug attitude that the customer "bought the wrong car" and it is now their faulty that it is breaking down. I don't remember this being an issue some years back - yes, someone may buy a diesel and their short journey profile does not give them the a running cost or economy benefit over a petrol, but a diesel car should be reliable however it is driven.
The fault is with the manufacturers for developing poor engine and economy technology - as we have seen VW knew that they couldn't have their diesel emission cake and eat it, so they decided to cheat.
The fault is with the manufacturers for developing poor engine and economy technology - as we have seen VW knew that they couldn't have their diesel emission cake and eat it, so they decided to cheat.
It's a curious place sometimes, internet chat forums..
It is a bloody car, designed to take you from A to B. It's not a specialist product, and no people don't go and research them in such detail prior to purchase. They go and look at a car and buy the one they like, expecting them to go from A to B, as that's what cars do.
If a product has such severe usage limitations that many dpf car seems to have, it should bloody well be down to the retailers to make customers aware of such shortcomings.
Love the "you bought the wrong engine" comments! Someone please point out to me where on the Porsche website they advice you the Macan diesel is not suitable for people who live in town or do predominately short journeys?
It is a bloody car, designed to take you from A to B. It's not a specialist product, and no people don't go and research them in such detail prior to purchase. They go and look at a car and buy the one they like, expecting them to go from A to B, as that's what cars do.
If a product has such severe usage limitations that many dpf car seems to have, it should bloody well be down to the retailers to make customers aware of such shortcomings.
Love the "you bought the wrong engine" comments! Someone please point out to me where on the Porsche website they advice you the Macan diesel is not suitable for people who live in town or do predominately short journeys?
You can buy an impractical car, but I'm not sure it is possible to buy the wrong car (or it shouldn't be).
Irrespective of the OP's wife's driving habits, the car should be able to do the journeys its doing without actually failing after 5 months. If not, it should be clearly advertised as such.
That being said..
Also I find it a bit odd personally to call out one specific person for buying a Porsche in terms of how much of that purchase decision was based purely on brand perception on a Porsche subforum.
Irrespective of the OP's wife's driving habits, the car should be able to do the journeys its doing without actually failing after 5 months. If not, it should be clearly advertised as such.
That being said..
cuprabob said:
When I bought my diesel VW back in 2011 they had a leaflet that explained the limitations of a DPF equipped diesel and that if it was continually used for short journeys the DPF may be damaged and it wasn't covered under warranty.
..is an interesting point. Does the Macan manual say anything similar?Also I find it a bit odd personally to call out one specific person for buying a Porsche in terms of how much of that purchase decision was based purely on brand perception on a Porsche subforum.
Edited by Durzel on Friday 18th August 12:22
moonigan said:
Slippydiff said:
You my friend are experiencing what's known as a double whammy. Firstly you bought a diesel engined vehicle not ideally suited for your modus operandi, but you also did so from a manufacturing group currently having to pay out millions of pounds for cheating emissions tests.....
When VAG rolled out the modified software for the affected vehicles, many owners complained of issues. I suspect that the DPF problems you and others are experiencing, will be one of those issues (and my guess is a further fix will required yet)
But the fact is, you didn't stop to think, instead you waltzed into your local OPC, eagerly brandishing your chequebook, wanting to buy into a lifestyle/brand that you thought would suit your wife's needs. More fool you.
What you didn't do is the required due diligence prior to buying, as if you had considered the situation more carefully and in the process made yourself better informed, you'd have most likely not bought the vehicle you did, and I imagine that fact is beginning to smart a tad.
Firstly I'm not your friend and for that I'm thankful because I'd hate to have to endure your condescending holier than thou attitude face to face. I've read quite a few of your posts and you seem to know your cheddar so its a shame you have to resort to personal digs.When VAG rolled out the modified software for the affected vehicles, many owners complained of issues. I suspect that the DPF problems you and others are experiencing, will be one of those issues (and my guess is a further fix will required yet)
But the fact is, you didn't stop to think, instead you waltzed into your local OPC, eagerly brandishing your chequebook, wanting to buy into a lifestyle/brand that you thought would suit your wife's needs. More fool you.
What you didn't do is the required due diligence prior to buying, as if you had considered the situation more carefully and in the process made yourself better informed, you'd have most likely not bought the vehicle you did, and I imagine that fact is beginning to smart a tad.
But I took genuine exception to this statement "if there is a fundamental problem with the car". And this is the crux of the issue, modern diesels are struggling to meet the ever more stringent emissions regulations being foisted upon their manufacturers, and they in turn are having to come up with increasing weird and wonderful ways to reduce them.
All joking aside, do you know what AdBlue is ? and what it does ? or indeed why it's used ? Most don't, they just complain when it runs out and has to be replaced. If you don't understand the fundamentals of what you're buying, you need to ask some searching questions, preferably not of a salesperson. Sure there's lots of erroneous information on the interweb, but an hour or so spent investigating what is probably the second most expensive purchase you'll make, seems like a worthwhile investment of time to me. If that comes across as patronising, I can only apologise again.
My DPF experience was hard won, but....... I had the luxury of a comprehensive BMW warranty, and was fortunate that a primary component had failed, the DPF clogged due to the failure of said component. Had there not been any faulty components, replacement of the expensive DPF would've been down to me as a result of my (or rather the previous owners) driving style.
The VAG group clearly have a massive problem on their hands right now, my guess is they'll either have to take frequent DPF replacement for owners such as yourself, on the chin, or come up with a "proper" fix, but the fact they felt the need to fudge the emissions tests originally, points to something being drastically and intrinsically wrong with their diesel products, and whatever they've set aside for compensation, will fall short of the funds needed to rectify faults on vehicles owned by what look to be an ever increasing amount of unhappy customers.
And of course you're right, BMW, Mercedes and others aren't experiencing the level of failures VAG are, though clearly GM are, as some dealers are requiring customers to sign disclaimers with regards to the replacement of clogged DPF's not being covered under the T&C's of the manufacturers warranty. In this case it looks like Vauxhall sales staff are better informed than those of VAG, and thus making sure their customers are aware of what they may be letting themselves in for if they go the diesel route.
My guess is BMW and Mercedes have been down this route some ten years ago, and in the process invested more heavily in solving the emissions problems they were faced with.
When all is said done, buying a modern diesel for short journeys is now more of a lottery than at any time previously (IMO) and adding the questionable ethics of the VAG into the mix, makes it even more of a lottery.....
I hope you get the problem sorted, but my guess is you'll either be making frequent visits to the dealer for forced regens/replacement DPF's, or until such time as a genuine and long lasting fix is found, but I wouldn't hold your breath for the latter
When I bought a Mazda 5 Diesel in 2009 I was not overly aware of DPF or their suitability for SWMBO needs/ commute.
Having encountered my first problem within a month of ownership the attitude of the main dealer I bought it from was, "that's normal" "you need to do longer journeys"
Now in hindsight I am responsible for not doing due diligence and had I known enough to google Mazda DPF issues, I would have run a mile. It's a well documented issue.
I do feel that the dealer also has a duty to qualify the customer needs and to make customers aware of the potential unsuitability of the car.
The phrase"mid-sold" has been around the finance part for long enough for salesman to be wary of the pitfalls.
Bottom line is
My fault for not doing due diligence enough.
I will never buy a car from that dealer again.
Never buy a Mazda again.
After years of pouring money down the drain, I sold the POS and went back to a petrol Honda.
On a depressing note, I was in a meeting last week when the term " Petrol Particulate Filter" was banded about.
Having encountered my first problem within a month of ownership the attitude of the main dealer I bought it from was, "that's normal" "you need to do longer journeys"
Now in hindsight I am responsible for not doing due diligence and had I known enough to google Mazda DPF issues, I would have run a mile. It's a well documented issue.
I do feel that the dealer also has a duty to qualify the customer needs and to make customers aware of the potential unsuitability of the car.
The phrase"mid-sold" has been around the finance part for long enough for salesman to be wary of the pitfalls.
Bottom line is
My fault for not doing due diligence enough.
I will never buy a car from that dealer again.
Never buy a Mazda again.
After years of pouring money down the drain, I sold the POS and went back to a petrol Honda.
On a depressing note, I was in a meeting last week when the term " Petrol Particulate Filter" was banded about.
Emeye said:
I don't get this smug attitude that the customer "bought the wrong car" and it is now their faulty that it is breaking down. I don't remember this being an issue some years back - yes, someone may buy a diesel and their short journey profile does not give them the a running cost or economy benefit over a petrol, but a diesel car should be reliable however it is driven.
The fault is with the manufacturers for developing poor engine and economy technology - as we have seen VW knew that they couldn't have their diesel emission cake and eat it, so they decided to cheat.
The emissions regulations weren't anything like as punitive as they've become over the past 10 years. As I said previously, diesels by their very nature aren't clean burning. However as the worlds motorists have embraced them (diesels) so they've become the target of the tree hugging brigade. The fault is with the manufacturers for developing poor engine and economy technology - as we have seen VW knew that they couldn't have their diesel emission cake and eat it, so they decided to cheat.
I've no doubt that if Rolls Royce and Pratt and Witney were told to make their aero engines as clean as those of the car manufacturers, and in a similar time frame, they'd struggle (and I know little about modern jet engines and nothing of their emissions)
fredt said:
It's a curious place sometimes, internet chat forums..
It is a bloody car, designed to take you from A to B. It's not a specialist product, and no people don't go and research them in such detail prior to purchase. They go and look at a car and buy the one they like, expecting them to go from A to B, as that's what cars do.
If a product has such severe usage limitations that many dpf car seems to have, it should bloody well be down to the retailers to make customers aware of such shortcomings.
Love the "you bought the wrong engine" comments! Someone please point out to me where on the Porsche website they advice you the Macan diesel is not suitable for people who live in town or do predominately short journeys?
That would be tantamount to committing financial suicide It is a bloody car, designed to take you from A to B. It's not a specialist product, and no people don't go and research them in such detail prior to purchase. They go and look at a car and buy the one they like, expecting them to go from A to B, as that's what cars do.
If a product has such severe usage limitations that many dpf car seems to have, it should bloody well be down to the retailers to make customers aware of such shortcomings.
Love the "you bought the wrong engine" comments! Someone please point out to me where on the Porsche website they advice you the Macan diesel is not suitable for people who live in town or do predominately short journeys?
And akin to a Ferrari salesman saying to a potential 488 customer "So sir's looking for reliable car ? I think our Porsche dealership might be better able to help you sir". Not going to happen is it ?
Anyway, I'm expecting some updates off your good self in the coming days
P.S. It would seem the springs fitted to your jalopy may well be OE items ......
Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 18th August 13:14
Emeye said:
I don't remember this being an issue some years back - yes, someone may buy a diesel and their short journey profile does not give them the a running cost or economy benefit over a petrol, but a diesel car should be reliable however it is driven.
.
It depends what you mean by "some years back"?.
DPF's have been around since 2009 ish and problems known about for around that time too so it's certainly not new news.
Slippydiff said:
Well as others have said, it was harsh, but fair. If it offended, I apologise
Apology accepted thanks. When buying the car I wasn't attempting to buy into the "Brand" I'd done that 10 years prior and it left a bitter taste. I'd spent quite a bit of time narrowing down my search. My criteria was:- Car to replace my RS4 for family duties so I could then look to buy something else for myself
- Premium brand
- SUV\Estate
- Had to carry bikes on roof
- Strong residual values
As I was buying/borrowing money rather than contract leasing I'd discounted the estates from Merc, Audi, BMW, etc and ended up with a shortlist of:
RRS
Macan
XC90
F-Pace
The XC90 was way too big and the F-Pace didn't live upto its premium aspirations and with discounts already being offered I didn't think it a safe place to put my own money. That left the RRS and the Macan. My wife didn't like perceived image of the RRS and I thought the Macan was a far superior drive and easier to put my bikes on the roof.
When I bought my 997 I spent a lot more time doing my homework and had been looking for 18 months before the right car came up. So while it may look from the outside that I have suddenly bought into the whole Porsche brand thing that isn't the case. I wanted two cars to fill two distinct roles and the Macan could have been a RRS and the 997 could have easily been a Mini Challenge JCW/BMW 1M/Lotus Elise.
P
MrBarry123 said:
There isn't. The problem is the way the car is being driven.
The probable reason why there's been a sharp increase in the number of DPF related issues is because all of those people who bought one 2-3 years' ago for shortish journeys are only now starting to have the problem due to the cumulative effect of shortish journeys over a 2-3 year period.
The Macan is holding its value well so I can't see you being spanked for moving to a petrol.
ETA: Slippydiff - strong, but fair.
Yes, there is a fundamental problem with the car. What you are saying is the car has to be driven within certain parameters so that it continues to function correctly?!The probable reason why there's been a sharp increase in the number of DPF related issues is because all of those people who bought one 2-3 years' ago for shortish journeys are only now starting to have the problem due to the cumulative effect of shortish journeys over a 2-3 year period.
The Macan is holding its value well so I can't see you being spanked for moving to a petrol.
ETA: Slippydiff - strong, but fair.
It is a mass produced car, that is marketed as a SUV and as such should be able to be driven as the owner wishes to drive it. They should not have to take the car for a 30/40 minute drive every 500 miles or so, with the engine at between 2200-2500 rpm to clear out the soot! This is a fundamental issue with the design of the car/software and therefore there is a fundamental problem with the car!
Insert Coin said:
My 2015 Toureg has done 17,000 miles, it's never had a DPF issue flash up.
I do 4 miles to work, 4 miles home and maybe another 2 or 3 at lunch time. It probably does a few more miles over the weekend and the odd run to North Devon (110ish miles each way) every 3 or 4 months.
It doesn't sound right to me, I know lots of low mileage drivers with diesels, my wife does a round trip of 10 miles every day for the school run and her X4 doesn't have any DPF issues either.
I'm pretty sure the manufacturers design their cars to do anything from 5 miles a day to 500, DPF regen would have been taken into consideration no matter what mileage the driver covers.
I think your car is faulty, I don't think your decision to buy a diesel and cover low mileage is the issue.
But it's the type of driving as much as the distance. As said, the dpf needs to light off to clean. Some like the peugeots used Eloys fluid to light off easier but it needed refilling at about 50-80k at about £100 a pop so others have come up with different strategies to cope and some need a maintained steady speed so it can over fuel and heat the dpf to light off.I do 4 miles to work, 4 miles home and maybe another 2 or 3 at lunch time. It probably does a few more miles over the weekend and the odd run to North Devon (110ish miles each way) every 3 or 4 months.
It doesn't sound right to me, I know lots of low mileage drivers with diesels, my wife does a round trip of 10 miles every day for the school run and her X4 doesn't have any DPF issues either.
I'm pretty sure the manufacturers design their cars to do anything from 5 miles a day to 500, DPF regen would have been taken into consideration no matter what mileage the driver covers.
I think your car is faulty, I don't think your decision to buy a diesel and cover low mileage is the issue.
rkwm1 said:
What you are saying is the car has to be driven within certain parameters so that it continues to function correctly?!
Now you get it Yes, it does, as do all cars in a way (ie why can't I drive my 1.0 polo like my RX, don't all cars Rev to 9000rpm ?, or why did my RX blow up, what's all this topping oil up business?)
Probably what's missing here is the dealer not explaining this to the owners which is wrong.
As to describing it as a fault, it's more a feature and inevitable result of burning diesel without emitting soot. It HAS to go somewhere.
Think of the old pre dpf diesels, some drivers would be kicking out soot at every junction, some not so much. The first driver will probably soot up their dpf more quickly so driving style also adds to it.
Slippydiff said:
All joking aside, do you know what AdBlue is ? and what it does ? or indeed why it's used ? Most don't, they just complain when it runs out and has to be replaced. If you don't understand the fundamentals of what you're buying, you need to ask some searching questions
One point, adblue is not for cleaning the dpf, but to reduce nox in an SCRGary C said:
One point, adblue is not for cleaning the dpf, but to reduce nox in an SCR
'Tis true, but my point was that manufacturers are having to come up with increasing clever ways to reduce the emissions, and very few of those that drive these cars realise what's involved to do so Slippydiff said:
fredt said:
It's a curious place sometimes, internet chat forums..
It is a bloody car, designed to take you from A to B. It's not a specialist product, and no people don't go and research them in such detail prior to purchase. They go and look at a car and buy the one they like, expecting them to go from A to B, as that's what cars do.
If a product has such severe usage limitations that many dpf car seems to have, it should bloody well be down to the retailers to make customers aware of such shortcomings.
Love the "you bought the wrong engine" comments! Someone please point out to me where on the Porsche website they advice you the Macan diesel is not suitable for people who live in town or do predominately short journeys?
That would be tantamount to committing financial suicide It is a bloody car, designed to take you from A to B. It's not a specialist product, and no people don't go and research them in such detail prior to purchase. They go and look at a car and buy the one they like, expecting them to go from A to B, as that's what cars do.
If a product has such severe usage limitations that many dpf car seems to have, it should bloody well be down to the retailers to make customers aware of such shortcomings.
Love the "you bought the wrong engine" comments! Someone please point out to me where on the Porsche website they advice you the Macan diesel is not suitable for people who live in town or do predominately short journeys?
And akin to a Ferrari salesman saying to a potential 488 customer "So sir's looking for reliable car ? I think our Porsche dealership might be better able to help you sir". Not going to happen is it ?
Anyway, I'm expecting some updates off your good self in the coming days
P.S. It would seem the springs fitted to your jalopy may well be OE items ......
Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 18th August 13:14
Yes I think the springs are oem items, just not sure if Mk1 or mk2. I have no updates yet but will make sure to let you know how it goes!
Cheers
fredt said:
However I do not believe Porsche have actually purposefully engineered a engine that is not suited to short journeys, but rather the issues displayed are unforseen. If it was expected by this engine to clog up the dpf it would either be explained to customers how it needs to be used to function properly, or more likely it would never have made it to production in the first place. Knowingly selling an engine that you know will give customers issues is surely more akin to financial suicide IMHO.
Totally agree with this. I think it is a totally unexpected issue which they are now trying to rectify.Slippydiff said:
Gary C said:
One point, adblue is not for cleaning the dpf, but to reduce nox in an SCR
'Tis true, but my point was that manufacturers are having to come up with increasing clever ways to reduce the emissions, and very few of those that drive these cars realise what's involved to do so Jazzy Jag said:
On a depressing note, I was in a meeting last week when the term " Petrol Particulate Filter" was banded about.
Blimey, the motorways are going to be busy at the weekends....http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/tiguan/965...
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