Newbie GT4 Vs. 981 Spyder

[Twinfan]

RSVP911 said:

Not that I want to get involved - but I think it might have been someone else

Fair enough then, I don't want to spoil your thread so I'll leave it there!

Thanks again for this comparison of Spyder vs GT4 as a road-only prospect, it's nice to get another view on the way I would use one

[RSVP911]

GT4P said:

Thanks RSVP for a good honest write up not the usual comparison trash like another post! Personally with the gt4 and 981 spyder it all comes down to choice of a soft or tin top (same same but different)i was offered both but wanted a coupe! I agree with some of what MrD is saying with regards to the 987 Spyder though which would be my choice if I wanted a convertible but that is not to knock the 981 version although the 987 roof is way better especially with the "sunshade"
Plus as for the PEC yellow car it's a preproduction model so not as refined as factory built cars hence its roughness that's why for my PEC day I made sure I chose the black car.
Anyway enjoy your car

Cheers

Re the 981 roof - I love the roof - I've become a roof removal and raising Ninja warrior - I currently hold the official world speed record (lots of practice) - up and down in a matter of a few (ish) seconds .

Never tried the 987 roof , but I saw a video of it once - it lasted for about three hours and involved 20 men, 2 cranes, a trebuchet and a dog - they managed it in the end.

I hereby challenge you to a roof duel .

If however you were simply commenting on styling and the ability to fit without the sunshade then I shall calm down and slowly walk away ........

[Porsche911R]

RSVP911 said:

Some interesting stuff above - thanks for the post. Taking a few points in turn; firstly your point on sound :

"Sound, don't try a new GT3 you will hate the in cabin sound on that then."

Not sure I'd agree with this but I haven't driven a 991.2 GT3 yet (not sure you have either ?) But other points of reference : I found the sound in my 991.1 GT3 too quite and added a SWBP - this fixed it. My 991.1RS sounds great and didn't need modding. I like to hear the roar of an engine - the GT4 has two sounds - the engine roar - I love that then the mechanical spooling sound - I don't like that - but as mentioned previously - I'll get used to its.
Re the 981 Spyder - I never drive with the SE on as I agree it can sound synthetic at times - truth is without the SE the sound is fantastic - best sounding car I ever had except for my 997.2RS - this has a sound all of its own - it's the sweetest sounding thing - you get a sort of ram air induction noise at high revs - it's genuinely spine tingling - I love that engine - in fact I love the whole car.)

"The 981 Spyder is a great car and cannot be put up vs a GT4 imo they are too different" :

Firstly, please can you clarify - have you actually driven a 981 Spyder - I only ask as when discussing on previous threads you were asked this a few times but never gave a definitive answer ?

On a track maybe - but I have to say the 981 Spyder did me proud at Bedford recently - I was very impressed (got black flagged for noise a lot though - naughty car!) But as mentioned in the post, I will use both as road cars and as such my comments were based on this alone - you may well be right about the merits on track with alterations broadening the gap - but that's not what I was comparing - I think there's some value comparing the two out of the box on public roads. Truth is the limiting factor in both cars by some margin is not their set up. but me - by a country mile - when I stop being the weakest link I'll think about modding.This is why your points on the electronics is a mute point for me - I like the aids - they make me feel like I'm an ok driver and help to keep me in one piece if I make a mistake - again one day I'll have enough time to hone my art and spend lots of time on the track until then they are a positive. I think we are at different stages in our journey - I agree with a lot of what you say but it's not where I'm at at the moment.

Thanks for clearing up the auto blip thing and info re the centre rad - very helpful.

"if you have a load of cars it don't really fit in that well."

Urm.. fits in very nicely and I have a few - Air-cooled to Modern.

Keep well

mechanical spooling sound was what I was thinking about regarding the new 991.2 GT3 cabin as that seems to be even more than the GT4 noises.
I have put back my PEC GT3 day and waiting for a manual GT3 to drive, so yes not driven the brand new manual GT3 yet, but reviews state more mechanical cabin noises.

I have driven the 981 Spyder and been in one on track, for me it's frustrating, but many cars I have had are frustrating esp nanny modes or modes to make a driver be able to go faster than they could other wise.., it's cheating :-) and PTV is cheating imo and the 981 leans on that ten fold, makes slow drivers faster . I am not the fastest driver, but I feeI I can pedal a car ok on track to a good level and have a bit of skill tucked away there some where.
Now any one who can drive ok can do an ok lap time in a modern car I feel.

It's a shame the Spyder missed out on the GT4 TC/EPS system. but then imo the 981 Spyder is not a track car and no one should be buying it as one I guess for serious track use, ok for a play now and again but too limiting for me to enjoy..

As I stated it fits in between the GT4 and my 987.2 Spyder so for me no point in owning one, I feel my 987.2 is more fun on the road at slower speeds and the GT4 is night and day better on track when you start to pedal on above 80% and want to dial in some real camber.

But if you wanted that 1 car which the other half could drive and euro tour etc then I can see why the 981 Spyder would win over many people.

I also cannot think the PCCB will offer any unsprung mass advantage you would notice, they are 420mm with massive calipers and big tyres, over the Spyder 330mm, 4 pots and small tyres, I would say the size of the PCCB even out the weight on the Spyder small parts. I think Porsche just made the EPS a load better on the GT4, it's def the best Porsche EPS car I have driven to date, and I can only hope the 991.2 GT3 has moved that on again and having the updated GT3 front end with helper springs etc it's act a nicer drive on the road than a Spyder imo, the GT4 should NOT ride that good, but it does, it's some form of magic.

As I said no bad cars, every one likes what they like, The 981 Spyder does not excite on a personal level (that does not make it a bad car, it's just not a car for me) , it's not outstanding enough at one single thing . but can see why people would love it and rather have it over either a GT4 or a 987.2 Spyder, it's a more rounded car for all purpose use.

As always these are only my personal views, nothing is fact or to get upset about ;-) (I do tend to upset people and people do think my posts are facts when they are just my own personal opinion lol .)

[RSVP911]

Porsche911R said:

RSVP911 said:

Some interesting stuff above - thanks for the post. Taking a few points in turn; firstly your point on sound :

"Sound, don't try a new GT3 you will hate the in cabin sound on that then."

Not sure I'd agree with this but I haven't driven a 991.2 GT3 yet (not sure you have either ?) But other points of reference : I found the sound in my 991.1 GT3 too quite and added a SWBP - this fixed it. My 991.1RS sounds great and didn't need modding. I like to hear the roar of an engine - the GT4 has two sounds - the engine roar - I love that then the mechanical spooling sound - I don't like that - but as mentioned previously - I'll get used to its.
Re the 981 Spyder - I never drive with the SE on as I agree it can sound synthetic at times - truth is without the SE the sound is fantastic - best sounding car I ever had except for my 997.2RS - this has a sound all of its own - it's the sweetest sounding thing - you get a sort of ram air induction noise at high revs - it's genuinely spine tingling - I love that engine - in fact I love the whole car.)

"The 981 Spyder is a great car and cannot be put up vs a GT4 imo they are too different" :

Firstly, please can you clarify - have you actually driven a 981 Spyder - I only ask as when discussing on previous threads you were asked this a few times but never gave a definitive answer ?

On a track maybe - but I have to say the 981 Spyder did me proud at Bedford recently - I was very impressed (got black flagged for noise a lot though - naughty car!) But as mentioned in the post, I will use both as road cars and as such my comments were based on this alone - you may well be right about the merits on track with alterations broadening the gap - but that's not what I was comparing - I think there's some value comparing the two out of the box on public roads. Truth is the limiting factor in both cars by some margin is not their set up. but me - by a country mile - when I stop being the weakest link I'll think about modding.This is why your points on the electronics is a mute point for me - I like the aids - they make me feel like I'm an ok driver and help to keep me in one piece if I make a mistake - again one day I'll have enough time to hone my art and spend lots of time on the track until then they are a positive. I think we are at different stages in our journey - I agree with a lot of what you say but it's not where I'm at at the moment.

Thanks for clearing up the auto blip thing and info re the centre rad - very helpful.

"if you have a load of cars it don't really fit in that well."

Urm.. fits in very nicely and I have a few - Air-cooled to Modern.

Keep well

mechanical spooling sound was what I was thinking about regarding the new 991.2 GT3 cabin as that seems to be even more than the GT4 noises.
I have put back my PEC GT3 day and waiting for a manual GT3 to drive, so yes not driven the brand new manual GT3 yet, but reviews state more mechanical cabin noises.

I have driven the 981 Spyder and been in one on track, for me it's frustrating, but many cars I have had are frustrating esp nanny modes or modes to make a driver be able to go faster than they could other wise.., it's cheating :-) and PTV is cheating imo and the 981 leans on that ten fold, makes slow drivers faster . I am not the fastest driver, but I feeI I can pedal a car ok on track to a good level and have a bit of skill tucked away there some where.
Now any one who can drive ok can do an ok lap time in a modern car I feel.

It's a shame the Spyder missed out on the GT4 TC/EPS system. but then imo the 981 Spyder is not a track car and no one should be buying it as one I guess for serious track use, ok for a play now and again but too limiting for me to enjoy..

As I stated it fits in between the GT4 and my 987.2 Spyder so for me no point in owning one, I feel my 987.2 is more fun on the road at slower speeds and the GT4 is night and day better on track when you start to pedal on above 80% and want to dial in some real camber.

But if you wanted that 1 car which the other half could drive and euro tour etc then I can see why the 981 Spyder would win over many people.

I also cannot think the PCCB will offer any unsprung mass advantage you would notice, they are 420mm with massive calipers and big tyres, over the Spyder 330mm, 4 pots and small tyres, I would say the size of the PCCB even out the weight on the Spyder small parts. I think Porsche just made the EPS a load better on the GT4, it's def the best Porsche EPS car I have driven to date, and I can only hope the 991.2 GT3 has moved that on again and having the updated GT3 front end with helper springs etc it's act a nicer drive on the road than a Spyder imo, the GT4 should NOT ride that good, but it does, it's some form of magic.

As I said no bad cars, every one likes what they like, The 981 Spyder does not excite on a personal level (that does not make it a bad car, it's just not a car for me) , it's not outstanding enough at one single thing . but can see why people would love it and rather have it over either a GT4 or a 987.2 Spyder, it's a more rounded car for all purpose use.

Thanks D - very considered reply - all good stuff.

Good luck with you GT3 allocation

[Fokker]

Cheers RSVP, I've always wondered how they'd compare on the road. I drove a spyder back to back with a GT4 at the PEC and the spyder I guess l felt more of a road car. More like a CGTS I suppose in terms of ride but with more shove.

The ride was smoother, slightly less dialled in for track work but a beautiful thing. I'd have mine in GT silver too!

[RSVP911]

Fokker said:

Cheers RSVP, I've always wondered how they'd compare on the road. I drove a spyder back to back with a GT4 at the PEC and the spyder I guess l felt more of a road car. More like a CGTS I suppose in terms of ride but with more shove.

The ride was smoother, slightly less dialled in for track work but a beautiful thing. I'd have mine in GT silver too!

[av185]

Sorry R, just found this thread!

Firstly, some are dismissing the 981 Spyder as not being as good as a GT4 because it is not a track car. This clearly misses the point as the 981 Spyder is not and was never intended to be a track car! In some ways, the deficiencies (if we can call them such), of the GT4 for its intended purposes are greater. The main one being the lack of the GT engine which could be seen as a distinct disadvantage on track.

So lets talk about the cars from a spirited road driving perspective. And leave the GT3 as the proper track car. (Although I rate it as a proper road car too btw).

In reality, even for fast road use, there is little it in between the GT4 and 981 Spyder. One could argue it is virtually impossible to get anywhere near the limits offered by the GT4s GT3 front suspension and brakes on a public road. Yes, the cup tyres offer some further advantage, especially over the controversial Pirelli tyres of the Spyder, but in a road going situation this is minimal under most circumstances for us lesser driving gods.

Usability.? Spyder greater ground clearance than GT4. Better for most road trips I find.

Sound? I would agree that the Spyder sounds better with pse off. On it is a touch synthetic but off it does sound better than the GT4.

Enjoyment and sense of occasion? Probably both in equal measures. But possibly the Spyder wins with the roof down.

Rarity and 'good attention'? Spyder wins hands down.

Which one to keep? Spyder definitely. And at the risk of mentioning prices, Spyders are now above GT4s as expected.

Both great cars, and agree they are totally different, as Porsche clearly intended. And to compare both cars for the same use would be like comparing the 991 GT3 with 911 R. Different cars, different ethos entirely.

Finally, you mention the 'hetrodyning' noises from the GT4 engine and transmission. This is most notable around 50 in top gear on a smooth road surface on a slightly trailining throttle I find. Although annoying, apparantly it is perfectly normal for the GT4.

Welcome to the GT4 experience.....your car looks fantastic btw!

Edited by av185 on Tuesday 15th August 07:47

Edited by av185 on Tuesday 15th August 07:51

[RSVP911]

av185 said:

Sorry R, just found this thread!

Firstly, some are dismissing the 981 Spyder as not being as good as a GT4 because it is not a track car. This clearly misses the point as the 981 Spyder is not and was never intended to be a track car! In some ways, the deficiencies (if we can call them such), of the GT4 for its intended purposes are greater. The main one being the lack of the GT engine which could be seen as a distinct disadvantage on track.

So lets talk about the cars from a spirited road driving perspective. And leave the GT3 as the proper track car. (Although I rate it as a proper road car too btw).

In reality, even for fast road use, there is little it in between the GT4 and 981 Spyder. One could argue it is virtually impossible to get anywhere near the limits offered by the GT4s GT3 front suspension and brakes on a public road. Yes, the cup tyres offer some further advantage, especially over the controversial Pirelli tyres of the Spyder, but in a road going situation this is minimal under most circumstances for us lesser driving gods.

Usability.? Spyder greater ground clearance than GT4. Better for most road trips I find.

Sound? I would agree that the Spyder sounds better with pse off. On it is a touch synthetic but off it does sound better than the GT4.

Enjoyment and sense of occasion? Probably both in equal measures. But possibly the Spyder wins with the roof down.

Rarity and 'good attention'? Spyder wins hands down.

Which one to keep? Spyder definitely. And at the risk of mentioning prices, Spyders are now above GT4s as expected.

Both great cars, and agree they are totally different, as Porsche clearly intended. And to compare both cars for the same use would be like comparing the 991 GT3 with 911 R. Different cars, different ethos entirely.

Finally, you mention the 'hetrodyning' noises from the GT4 engine and transmission. This is most notable around 50 in top gear on a smooth road surface on a slightly trailining throttle I find. Although annoying, apparantly it is perfectly normal for the GT4.

Welcome to the GT4 experience.....your car looks fantastic btw!

Edited by av185 on Tuesday 15th August 07:47

Edited by av185 on Tuesday 15th August 07:51

Good morning AV - hope all is well ?

Great post, very well put - my OP did try and make it clear that I was comparing for the purpose of my intended end use only; which is spirited road use; as most know I am not and will probably never be, a track warrior.

I also "know" deep down that, for me, the Spyder is the most special for two reasons :

1. Versatility : got to love a ragtop

2. The positive noise of the Spyder vs. the "negative" noise of the GT4 (btw I've never heard of heterodyning - I thought it meant a man and a women popping to Nando's - however, a quick search on google and a physics lesson put me right - learn something new every day - Cheers)

I find it frustrating as I'm tending to notice the engine for the wrong reasons and it's a reminder that a "compromised" engine is in the GT4, whereas the engine feels "honest and right" in the Spyder and really helps to make the car. I can't believe there hasn't been more chatter about this - however it's probably not a "thing" if you are using the GT4 in isolation - it's more noticeable when comparing it to the Spyder / RS .

Also It's only a minir gripe - I'll get used to it and it's the only negative I've found on a brilliant car and in truth, as mentioned, it only really bothers me as I have another point of reference.

Either way, what I already know is simple and that is, they are both great cars and "better" can only be defined by the required end use of the owner. It's no more complex than that .Anyone owning either should be very happy indeed - being able to enjoy both is real a bonus & a massive stroke of luck

BTW : Today is DECAL DAY - I plan to improve or ruin both cars (delete as per your own point of view)

Pictures to follow ........

[av185]

Good luck with the decals Rich. Look forward to seeing the 'transformed' cars.

[anonymous-user]

daro911 said:

That looks stunning!

[daro911]

garyhun said:

That looks stunning!

Many thanks had her out & about today its just so much fun to drive and equally as much fun to listen too with the PSE screaming away

[RSVP911]

av185 said:

Good luck with the decals Rich. Look forward to seeing the 'transformed' cars.

A taster

[av185]

Nice.

Am liking the parking sign too...:

[AndrewD]

RSVP911 said:

A taster

Be careful those stickers don't peel off, parking that poor car there in a place with no walls and the wind howling past off the North Sea.

[RSVP911]

av185 said:

Nice.

Am liking the parking sign too...:

Yes , I take it quite seriously ; my wife once parked her Fiat 500 there - I clamped it and had it towed - that showed her

[RSVP911]

AndrewD said:

RSVP911 said:

A taster

Be careful those stickers don't peel off, parking that poor car there in a place with no walls and the wind howling past off the North Sea.

It's very cosy in there - I should know : I've been sleeping there since I had the wife's car towed - hoping she'll defrost before the winter though

[AndrewD]

RSVP911 said:

It's very cosy in there - I should know : I've been sleeping there since I had the wife's car towed - hoping she'll defrost before the winter though

[RSVP911]

So a few piccies of the decals : I know they are Marmite - but I have a penchant for a sticker - the sticker the better - thanks once more to Rick at Highgate House for supplying and Tim for fitting

GT4 P O R S C H E Motorsport Wing Decal :



981 Spyder : Roof Up :



981 Spyder : Roof Down :



Kissing :

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 15th August 22:37

[decrassius]

it's transmission whine isn't it? Audible due to less sound proofing for weight saving

[Fokker]

Very nice Richard, a perfect combination