981 20" tyres - Michelin or Goodyear?

[Cabsi]

I know there is another thread running on a very similar topic, but I though it was worth asking a specific question.

I have 20" PZero N0's and I'm not happy with them. They seem to have extremely stiff sidewalls and even though they are only half worn, I'm seriously thinking about changing to the Goodyear F1 N0's as the reviews seem to suggest a significantly better driving experience.

My question is - has anyone any first hand experience of the new Michelin PS4S N0's on a 981? I'm particularly interested in the ability of the tyre to provide the flowing driving experience I know these cars can provide.

If anyone has moved from the F1's to the PS4S then even better! Thanks.

[ClarkeyDiem]

Cabsi, whilst a bit cheeky, I have 4 Michelin Pilot Super Sports for sale in the 20" tyre section on PH at a reasonable price. There are not N rated: however if you wanted to "try" Michelins, this might be a way to dip your toe...

[Cabsi]

ClarkeyDiem said:

Cabsi, whilst a bit cheeky, I have 4 Michelin Pilot Super Sports for sale in the 20" tyre section on PH at a reasonable price. There are not N rated: however if you wanted to "try" Michelins, this might be a way to dip your toe...

Thanks - appreciate the thought, but want to keep the N rating due to my OPC warranty.

[ginettajoe]

Cabsi said:

I know there is another thread running on a very similar topic, but I though it was worth asking a specific question.

I have 20" PZero N0's and I'm not happy with them. They seem to have extremely stiff sidewalls and even though they are only half worn, I'm seriously thinking about changing to the Goodyear F1 N0's as the reviews seem to suggest a significantly better driving experience.

My question is - has anyone any first hand experience of the new Michelin PS4S N0's on a 981? I'm particularly interested in the ability of the tyre to provide the flowing driving experience I know these cars can provide.

If anyone has moved from the F1's to the PS4S then even better! Thanks.

Before setting off on a 5000 mile trip around Europe in May, I changed from P Zero's to Goodyear Eagle F1's, the P Zeros had 5+ mm of tread! The difference was dramatic, much quieter, much smoother, the ride was transformed, and more importantly, I don't have a hint of "shuffle" even on full lock!! Fuel consumption was excellent, returning between 33 and 40+ mpg! The car is a 981 3.4 S Boxter, with 20" wheels, and PASM. The mileage I have covered now on the tyres, is in excess of 7000 miles, and the fronts still measure 7MM and the rears, 6.5MM of tread remaining!!! Fabulous tyres!!!

[mr pg]

I couldn't see N rated 20" PS4S versions for the 981 on the Michelin website yet. Are you sure they're available?

[Koln-RS]

I don't think N-spec MPS4S are available for many Porsche sizes at the moment.

The Goodyears are an excellent alternative - quiet and comfortable.

[Porsche911R]

Koln-RS said:

I don't think N-spec MPS4S are available for many Porsche sizes at the moment.

The Goodyears are an excellent alternative - quiet and comfortable.

Goodyears are a good tyre, Ps4s is a great tyre. remember the goodyear N spec is also not the latest F1 tyre.

I liked the F1 for a bit but still binned them on my R and went PS4S non N spec.

[hixster]

Don't think the ps4s are out yet - I was active in the other thread.

I settled on the new Pirelli N1s - I have 20" and these new tyres are amazing compare to the old N0 which were on the car previously. You won't be disappointed

Edited by hixster on Tuesday 5th September 20:03

[Cabsi]

Ummm. This is very strange - I'm pretty sure they were listed on the Michelin site a couple of weeks ago - but the Porsche version isn't there now.

However, Tyre Shopper lists the fronts in N0 but not the backs...

https://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/tyres/235-35-20

Thanks for all the other comments. Guess we've all got our own views on the best tyres!

[Porsche911R]

Cabsi said:

Ummm. This is very strange - I'm pretty sure they were listed on the Michelin site a couple of weeks ago - but the Porsche version isn't there now.

However, Tyre Shopper lists the fronts in N0 but not the backs...

https://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/tyres/235-35-20

Thanks for all the other comments. Guess we've all got our own views on the best tyres!

I think the views come from people who have never had anything but p zero so anything is better lol

I have ran every thing on my Porkers, Conti, p zero, Bridgestones, Googyear F1, Dunlop race maxx, MPSS , PS4S and the cup 2, Michelin are the clear winners by a long shot hence why every ring record is on "Michelin" and most super cars even the tail happy BMW ran MPSS to tame them, the CGT a car which would bite you ended up with MPSS also the only tyre to work on the car !
Most of the Hyper cars ran MPSS and new Ferrari are coming out with PS4S on them.

So while views might be like belly buttons, the fact is "Michelin" are the best tyres backed up time and time again in every review, only EVO never rate "Michelin" as they never put a PS4S or MPSS on their tests lol they are paid buy Conti imo to avoid those 2 tyres in every car tyre test I can remember.

While the new P1 zero N1 might be a good tyre, it's about the only one I have not used, I would not risk buying one going by their history.
people also look at tyre reviews and then state that vs an old model which Porsche fit not the new releases.

I run 2 cars on PS4S and 2 on CUP 2's, I have also ran at >6 sets of MPSS , they transformed my V8 BMW.

when it comes to tyres "Michelin" seem to have it licked, they have now and back 10+ years ago they did with the PS2 of which I must have ran 10+ sets.

Continental Sport Contact 6 seem to get good reviews but I don't trust the paid for adverts and have had bad Conti before.

to end on a tyre review quote
"The new Michelin Pilot Sport 4S betters the Michelin Pilot Super Sport in every measurable category, and looks to extend its dominance over its rivals in the maximum performance tyre sector."

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 5th September 10:41

[bcr5784]

hixster said:

Don't the the ps4s are out yet - I was active in the other thread.

I settled on the new Pirelli N1s - I have 20" and these new tyres are amazing compare to the old N0 which were on the care previously. You won't be disappointed

I'd echo that - you really wouldn't recognise them as the same brand of tyre if it wasn't written on the sidewall. I've tried N0 Goodyears too - better steering feel but too much understeer for my liking.

[Cabsi]

Porsche911R said:

I think the views come from people who have never had anything but p zero so anything is better lol

I have ran every thing on my Porkers, Conti, p zero, Bridgestones, Googyear F1, Dunlop race maxx, MPSS , PS4S and the cup 2, Michelin are the clear winners by a long shot hence why every ring record is on "Michelin" and most super cars even the tail happy BMW ran MPSS to tame them, the CGT a car which would bite you ended up with MPSS also the only tyre to work on the car !
Most of the Hyper cars ran MPSS and new Ferrari are coming out with PS4S on them.

So while views might be like belly buttons, the fact is "Michelin" are the best tyres backed up time and time again in every review, only EVO never rate "Michelin" as they never put a PS4S or MPSS on their tests lol they are paid buy Conti imo to avoid those 2 tyres in every car tyre test I can remember.

While the new P1 zero N1 might be a good tyre, it's about the only one I have not used, I would not risk buying one going by their history.
people also look at tyre reviews and then state that vs an old model which Porsche fit not the new releases.

I run 2 cars on PS4S and 2 on CUP 2's, I have also ran at >6 sets of MPSS , they transformed my V8 BMW.

when it comes to tyres "Michelin" seem to have it licked, they have now and back 10+ years ago they did with the PS2 of which I must have ran 10+ sets.

Continental Sport Contact 6 seem to get good reviews but I don't trust the paid for adverts and have had bad Conti before.

to end on a tyre review quote
"The new Michelin Pilot Sport 4S betters the Michelin Pilot Super Sport in every measurable category, and looks to extend its dominance over its rivals in the maximum performance tyre sector."

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 5th September 10:41

Thank you 911R - you clearly have more experience of Porsche tyres than me!

I do want N Rated tyres, and my only experience of Michelins was on my 987.2 CS. They were Pilot Sport 2 N2's and they seemed to have very stiff sidewalls leading to poor NVH in the cabin. They lasted well and the steering response and grip were very good, but the road noise and constant fidgeting was an issue for me.

I realise that everyone has different requirements from a tyre, so you're right, everyone will have their own opinion. I don't track my car, so I'd gladly give up 10% on steering response and grip if the tyre allowed the chassis to 'breath' or 'flow' with the crappy roads we have to put up with in the UK.

Tyres have such a big impact on the enjoyment we get from our cars, and I'm not a millionaire, so I just wish there was a better way of making sure we're making the right choice.

[Cabsi]

ginettajoe said:

Before setting off on a 5000 mile trip around Europe in May, I changed from P Zero's to Goodyear Eagle F1's, the P Zeros had 5+ mm of tread! The difference was dramatic, much quieter, much smoother, the ride was transformed, and more importantly, I don't have a hint of "shuffle" even on full lock!! Fuel consumption was excellent, returning between 33 and 40+ mpg! The car is a 981 3.4 S Boxter, with 20" wheels, and PASM. The mileage I have covered now on the tyres, is in excess of 7000 miles, and the fronts still measure 7MM and the rears, 6.5MM of tread remaining!!! Fabulous tyres!!!

Thank you ginettajoe. It sounds like we have similar requirements when it comes to tyre choice! And my car has PASM as well (which I only use in comfort mode).

BCR5784 mentions that the F1's are more prone to understeer - have you found that in the wet or dry?

[Cabsi]

bcr5784 said:

I'd echo that - you really wouldn't recognise them as the same brand of tyre if it wasn't written on the sidewall. I've tried N0 Goodyears too - better steering feel but too much understeer for my liking.

Thank you bcr5784. How would you compare the PZero N1's and N0 Goodyears for NVH characteristics?

[DJMC]

I ran GY F1 A2 all round on my 2012 TTS after the original Toyos were worn out and found the GYs to be one of the best tyres I've had over 40 years. Also, after 10k miles they had worn only 1-2mm. I've never had Michelins on any car as it happens.

Faced with cracking (not in a good way!) PZero N0's on my 981C (20" + PASM) I once again switched to the N marked GY F1 A2s.

I don't track either and after 18k miles find them great in wet or dry. They are about half worn now, another 18k to go?

I've researched PS4S to the hilt and I would fit them next time instead of the Goodyears but for these things:

1/ Michelin keep saying they're available in 235 and 265 20" N marked but I couldn't fine them last time I looked.
2/ Is there a problem with them, as they should have been out for the 718 launch?
3/ Why did a long serving Camskill tyre expert tell me owners are complaining about them?
4/ Do I want to pay 50% more for PS4S over the Goodyears I've been happy with?
5/ Will I regret spending £1000+ when they don't suit my driving style, whereas the Goodyears are perfectly fine?
6/ Why is it so difficult to find reviews of the PS4S on 20" Cayster wheels when they're supposed to be so good?

I too wish to stay with N marked tyres due to my extended warranty.

[bcr5784]

Cabsi said:

Thank you bcr5784. How would you compare the PZero N1's and N0 Goodyears for NVH characteristics?

A bit difficult to be definite - I did a back to back test on my car (which has PASM) but with 18" Eagles and 19" N0 Pirellis. The ride was a bit better on Goodyears - but you would expect that with smaller rims - but bump thump was better on the Pirellis. (My tests were done in the dry so I have no experience of the Goodyears in the wet).

The big difference between the N0 and N1 Pirellis is the progressiveness. On N0 Pirellis the car was very (excessively imo) "planted" - to the point where I was reluctant to push it because it was unclear how much grip remained. The car is much more "mobile" on N1s and much more playful and engaging as a result. As has been said N0 Pirellis scrub a lot on lock - N1s practically not at all at reasonable temperatures (I have a Winter set of Dunlops so can't say whether there is any scrub in really cold conditions.

[Geoff39GL]

bcr5784 said:

A bit difficult to be definite - I did a back to back test on my car (which has PASM) but with 18" Eagles and 19" N0 Pirellis. The ride was a bit better on Goodyears - but you would expect that with smaller rims - but bump thump was better on the Pirellis. (My tests were done in the dry so I have no experience of the Goodyears in the wet).

The big difference between the N0 and N1 Pirellis is the progressiveness. On N0 Pirellis the car was very (excessively imo) "planted" - to the point where I was reluctant to push it because it was unclear how much grip remained. The car is much more "mobile" on N1s and much more playful and engaging as a result. As has been said N0 Pirellis scrub a lot on lock - N1s practically not at all at reasonable temperatures (I have a Winter set of Dunlops so can't say whether there is any scrub in really cold conditions.

I had Goodyear Eagles on my 981 BGTS and thought they were a really good road tyre in both the wet and dry, I also took them on track and they were fine for the odd track day always predictable. I don't think you would be disappointed and it seems the price is right as well.

[ginettajoe]

Cabsi said:

ginettajoe said:

Before setting off on a 5000 mile trip around Europe in May, I changed from P Zero's to Goodyear Eagle F1's, the P Zeros had 5+ mm of tread! The difference was dramatic, much quieter, much smoother, the ride was transformed, and more importantly, I don't have a hint of "shuffle" even on full lock!! Fuel consumption was excellent, returning between 33 and 40+ mpg! The car is a 981 3.4 S Boxter, with 20" wheels, and PASM. The mileage I have covered now on the tyres, is in excess of 7000 miles, and the fronts still measure 7MM and the rears, 6.5MM of tread remaining!!! Fabulous tyres!!!

Thank you ginettajoe. It sounds like we have similar requirements when it comes to tyre choice! And my car has PASM as well (which I only use in comfort mode).

BCR5784 mentions that the F1's are more prone to understeer - have you found that in the wet or dry?

My pleasure Cabsi, .... well, firstly, I race cars, predominantly front wheel drive, but occasionally rear wheel drive, and have done since 1985, and on top of that, my work is a race circuit instructor, working on several of the PCGB track days, but mainly coaching race drivers! I have no desire to track my 981, and neither do I drive it on the limit on the road, so for me, it is a difficult one to quantify!! "Understeer" is a very subjective characteristic which more often than not is created by the way the car is driven, rather than from the tyre itself! The way I coach, and obviously, the way I drive eliminate understeer, even on very underated tyres!!
My evaluation of a tyre may be different to that of other drivers, where I'm looking for a tyre that is reasonably priced, works well in all conditions, provides a good ride, isn't noisy, and has excellent wear characteristics! Hence my admiration for the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymetric tyre!
HTH Howard

[Geneve]

I do like the Goodyear F1s, and have run them on a number of vehicles, and found them to be, subjectively, excellent.

[Cabsi]

Thanks everyone. I think the choice has been made.

I'm having a full Geo done tomorrow, and will see whether that enables me to live with the Pirellis. If not (and I suspect not), I will then be looking for the best deal on the Goodyears.