What happened to the bubble?

[rossb]

Seeing some Pork on beaches motivated me to post this. After a very long lay off/engine rebuild did 1000kms in my 64rs in about a week few weeks ago - pic taken on way back from Luftgekhult. It was so wet that day that the car steamed up - so i thought fk it - may as well carry on driving down to the coast to see if i get could get it to demist (took a long time - reminded me of driving a Defender in heavy rain). As i arrived into the car park - car had a weathered appearance and a guy came up to me expressing astonishment that he was seeing an example being used. We both chuckled over the fact that now it had got wet and it has done something like 54k kms (a massive 2k kms/yr!) - it's worthless and so i may as well drive it more.

[rkwm1]

The music stopped a while ago. People are still going round in a circle with momentum, but it's time to sit down and quite a few people are going to be left without a chair very soon.

Bubbles gone "pop"!

[IMI A]

rossb said:

Seeing some Pork on beaches motivated me to post this. After a very long lay off/engine rebuild did 1000kms in my 64rs in about a week few weeks ago - pic taken on way back from Luftgekhult. It was so wet that day that the car steamed up - so i thought fk it - may as well carry on driving down to the coast to see if i get could get it to demist (took a long time - reminded me of driving a Defender in heavy rain). As i arrived into the car park - car had a weathered appearance and a guy came up to me expressing astonishment that he was seeing an example being used. We both chuckled over the fact that now it had got wet and it has done something like 54k kms (a massive 2k kms/yr!) - it's worthless and so i may as well drive it more.

They look so good. Always surprised people back date these. Fab pic

[EGTE]

"a guy came up to me expressing astonishment that he was seeing an example being used"

The state of play in a nutshell. Well done you for using and enjoying your lovely car.

[Digga]

ooid said:

Who doesn't love Jerry Seinfield's comment on here (1999 - Porsche swap meet);

"There is not one person here that conduct a conversation or eating a meal without the food falling out of their mouth. The biggest losers in the world and I'm one of them."




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NejDRIWN7k

Jerry Seinfeld said:

Get into something dumb, deep into it! And you'll find the greatest wisdom.

It's true. In the grand scheme of things, knowing a Mezger form an M98 is neither here not there, but the enjoyment (for the participant) is in the detail and, as other say, the driving of the car.

[rossb]

EGTE said:

"a guy came up to me expressing astonishment that he was seeing an example being used"

The state of play in a nutshell. Well done you for using and enjoying your lovely car.

I've got a confession to make guys - i had not actually used the car for a long time - partly because of work being done on it - but also due to fact general life stuff got in the way/lost interest. However - after getting it dirty and wet - enthusiastically running it in for the first engine service post rebuild - i quickly got back into the idea that it's just a car and needs to be driven to get some enjoyment out of ownership. The Faff of climbing in through the full cage - ridiculous noise with Cargraphic Ti pipes, embarrassing squeaking big reds etc, "firm" cup dampers, misting up (also think heat exchangers have been removed - it was a track car in Europe many years ago) - is all coming back to me as i write this. On the bumpy B roads in Surrey - it's a bit compromised really....which is EXACTLY why it offers such an illicit challenging thrill to drive it spiritedly on the road and essentially why a lot of us piss money away on silly cars! I'm now gonna phone up to see how the service work is getting on - like a true addict - thinking about it has got me craving my next hit

[Discombobulate]

rossb said:

Seeing some Pork on beaches motivated me to post this. After a very long lay off/engine rebuild did 1000kms in my 64rs in about a week few weeks ago - pic taken on way back from Luftgekhult. It was so wet that day that the car steamed up - so i thought fk it - may as well carry on driving down to the coast to see if i get could get it to demist (took a long time - reminded me of driving a Defender in heavy rain). As i arrived into the car park - car had a weathered appearance and a guy came up to me expressing astonishment that he was seeing an example being used. We both chuckled over the fact that now it had got wet and it has done something like 54k kms (a massive 2k kms/yr!) - it's worthless and so i may as well drive it more.

Lovely car Ross. Have you felt the carpets front and back to see if they are wet? Common cause of misting up in 964 - don’t ask me how I know

[Yellow491]

hunter 66 said:

Nice Steve , well said

Who was the famous actor who used to say that all the time,its boring listening to money side of cars.May be some are living beyond what they can afford and spend every minute whilst driving there cars, worrying how much they are going to lose or not
I think its now over 80% of new porsche car owners are buying on the never never.
I wonder how many of the new gt3 and rs owners truly value what these cars are all about,or should i say what they used to be all about.

Hunter i have another rsr/cup box lined up to go in the latest rs,get rid of the auto slush box;)

[Steve Rance]

Yep.

I bought my 993 in 2008. It wasnt cheap then and at the time a lot of guys were saying 'the bubble will burst, i'll wait'. I bought my 964 in 2016. It wasnt cheap then and a lot of guys were saying 'the bubble will burst i'll wait.

Well I've had a lot of fun driving those cars over those years - and the same guys are still saying 'the bubble will burst i'll wait'

You cant buy those years of fun back no matter how much money you might save

[EGTE]

£40K in 2 years? Jay-sus, that's commitment to the cause :-)

[browngt3]

40k? That's major restoration work not running costs. My last service was £300!!

[rossb]

Discombobulate said:

Lovely car Ross. Have you felt the carpets front and back to see if they are wet? Common cause of misting up in 964 - don’t ask me how I know

Thanks - not carpets - car came from a sunny climate - rear screen rubber has perished - screen out job etc

[Discombobulate]

rossb said:

Thanks - not carpets - car came from a sunny climate - rear screen rubber has perished - screen out job etc

So letting water in? That is what happened to mine, hence the wet carpets. Just a trickle but enough. Glad yours wasn’t that bad.

[highway]

Personally I think the continued price convergence is going to cause change in the market soon. Desirable 964,993, 997.2 and 991.1 are all available between £45k -£70k. So much choice for a limited buying pool. The early cars have considerable charm and are very pretty yet they are much slower and less capable than the newer stuff. All comes down to personal choice but how many committed buyers are out there?

I enjoyed owning my 993 but I wouldn’t be paying £50k plus for a manual Carrera with 60k plus miles on it .

[jonttt]

I love 90’s cars when so many where over engineered and pre tech explosion.

I’ve not used my 993 much but I still marvel at the difference in engineering, even the quality of the metal used, just opening and shutting the engine lid is an experience you simply don;t get with a more modern car.

The departure from a 964/993 to water cooled was just such a massive leap as Porsche went into relative mass production to stay alive, I would just never compare a 964/993 to a 996 up.

In this world of political correctness you can exploit / enjoy an air cooled Porsche for what it is, something different, something lost.

If I wanted a toy purely to get the best driving experience to suit me I would not own a 964/993, it would be a more modern Porsche (I’m lucky enough to own a 981 as well) but that’s not why I own one.

To me there is no real dilemma between choosing a more modern Porsche or a 993/964 as the difference is so marked and one will fit into your personal criteria, the other won’t.

So yes there may be price convergence, but market convergence, no. There will always be less 993/964 buyers but there are relatively many less cars to choose from, they have their own distinct market which just happens to share a price point with other cars at the moment.

Edited by jonttt on Thursday 23 August 09:22

[supersport]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There was no bubble then. Most mags were still slagging off 964 RS at that point. I don’t think value threads existed back then either, owners just drove them.

I don’t think I even considered “value”for insurance purposes around 2012 or 2013 maybe.

[highway]

It makes me laugh how lukewarm the motoring press were about the 964 and 993 RS when they were new. Years later they fawn over them but I still have the contemporary Performance Car and Fast Lane mags where the 993 was slated for basically being too firm for the toad.

I’ve seen some 997 GTS priced higher than 991 now. 718 below 981. General convergence price wise on many models. My point is, this hasn’t happened before. Historically the newer models are ‘worth” more than the old, all things being equal. There are less old cars around of course but if you were considering a 993 would you be blind to the other 911 variants available at the same outlay? The later cars are possessed ion their own charms - a Manual 997.2 is rewarding car to drive and in many ways the true successor to the 993 (made for broadly the same time, similar looks, 6 cylinder, hydraulic steering)

I appreciate if you are an air cooled zealot you likely won’t be considering a 997 but for regular car guys, those who fancy a 911, there is now massive choice through the back catalogue at the same money. Interesting times.

[Digga]

I think that until (unless?) Brexit resolves itself early next year, we are in a period of very limited market activity. The music has stopped on this particular passage of the pass the Porsche game.

As for merits of new versus old, I think I'd agree that we have entered uncharted waters. The 991.2 GT3 and RS may well be scintillating cars, but they are the last of the NA line. The end, in that regard, is nigh - at no price will you be able to buy a brand new, normally aspirated GT Porsche.

Clearly, in general, older tends to mean slower, more analogue, more involving at any given speed and, arguably, more costly to maintain. The values buyers give to all of these relative attributes is by no means logical, fixed or calculable. It's going to be very interesting to see how things pan out.