Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Porsche really have been a bit poor on the motor side of things over many models. Chasing the £ too much instead of hewn from granite. I expect modern engines to have no issues bar routine servicing else it’s an inferior product or shocking abused each and every day of its life then let’s go.
Still amazes me that expensive stuff like Porsches, and I did own one once, seem to have so much go wrong when my old BMW bought new in 1998 and still with me and used as a much abused daily, has had a new battery in its 21 years and a couple of springs.
No radiators, condensers or suspension arms needed, engine and gearbox has been faultless oh! I forgot, a recon power steering pump, but that was the fault of showing off and doing donuts for my son.
Yet my car is now worth £500 yet a '98 996 must be £10k at the cheap end and will come with a world of expensive repair pain, most likely.
No radiators, condensers or suspension arms needed, engine and gearbox has been faultless oh! I forgot, a recon power steering pump, but that was the fault of showing off and doing donuts for my son.
Yet my car is now worth £500 yet a '98 996 must be £10k at the cheap end and will come with a world of expensive repair pain, most likely.
Unfortunately the M96 engine was designed during the financially dark days so engineers and designers under immense pressure from accountants and board to make the car 30% cheaper to manufacture compared to handmade 993. Obviously they became aware there was a problem with the IMS and changed the design a few times which never sorted it fully compared to adding an external oil feed. Ultimately it would have been a commercial decision not to recall M96 and just deal with damage to reputation and possible legal actions.
I believe the bore score again was partly reduction in quality of components and boring the original block from 3.4 to 3.6 and later 3.8
The replacement DI engine was only scheduled for the mid term (997.2) facelift so the M96/7 exposure was circa 10 years.
If you are interested in a 911 I believe you will never get a combustion engine 911 for sub 20k again so the 996/7 are your last chance. Speak to your local indie to find out how many ims fails and bore score they have seen in the last few years, obviously Hartech get the majority so may skew the numbers?
I bought a 996.2, got it inspected first and the rest will be fate. I hope to get a decent few years to soften the blow if/when it needs engine work as it is a 'keeper'.
I imagine any £65k+ performance car isn't inherently cheap to run at 10+ years old!
I believe the bore score again was partly reduction in quality of components and boring the original block from 3.4 to 3.6 and later 3.8
The replacement DI engine was only scheduled for the mid term (997.2) facelift so the M96/7 exposure was circa 10 years.
If you are interested in a 911 I believe you will never get a combustion engine 911 for sub 20k again so the 996/7 are your last chance. Speak to your local indie to find out how many ims fails and bore score they have seen in the last few years, obviously Hartech get the majority so may skew the numbers?
I bought a 996.2, got it inspected first and the rest will be fate. I hope to get a decent few years to soften the blow if/when it needs engine work as it is a 'keeper'.
I imagine any £65k+ performance car isn't inherently cheap to run at 10+ years old!
The thing that gets me is that the original dual row IMSB seems pretty robust.
Then porsche changed it in the 3.6 (and possibly late 3.4s?) - why? To resolve the few issues that did occur? In any case, it got worse with the larger single row. That's a bit of a shot in the foot for their designers...
Then porsche changed it in the 3.6 (and possibly late 3.4s?) - why? To resolve the few issues that did occur? In any case, it got worse with the larger single row. That's a bit of a shot in the foot for their designers...
Welshbeef said:
PS2018 said:
Very interesting thanks @cmoose
Certainly enough to put me off a gen 1!
But you can buy Hartech (sp?) warranties versions with rebuilt engines job jobbed. Certainly enough to put me off a gen 1!
Edited by PS2018 on Thursday 8th August 06:51
The engines can still fail. I think they come with a 1 or 2 year warranty. And as Moo told me when I thought a Hartech Warranty would protect me, the warranty only covers some of their labour costs. So even with a fully warrantied car if the engine fails you are still looking at substantial costs like [guess] 6k plus or more.
I cant imagine why any traders would touch these knowing this and that their warranties have maximum payout limits way below the cost of repairing one of these engines. That is probably why so many end up at the auction. Just look at cars with no reserve on ebay. They always have several.
997.2 vs 991 is interesting.
I don’t lust after another 997. The 991 interior and look are in a different era. Whilst people say 991 is boaty gt car, it feels like probably exaggerated. I’m not after the absolute oinacle of driver involvement though I need a usable road car as part of the deal and my 997 c4s convertible was great for my needs
Might try a 991 at some point if I ever change the R8 (unlikely) but must be gen 1
I don’t lust after another 997. The 991 interior and look are in a different era. Whilst people say 991 is boaty gt car, it feels like probably exaggerated. I’m not after the absolute oinacle of driver involvement though I need a usable road car as part of the deal and my 997 c4s convertible was great for my needs
Might try a 991 at some point if I ever change the R8 (unlikely) but must be gen 1
Welshbeef said:
When will 991s be down to sub £20k? They are what 9-10 year old cars now
Probably when petrol cars are banned from most cities...! As in, i can't see anytime soon, if ever. The 997.1 is still above 20k, above 30k for a 997.2.
The 991 is one of the best looking 911's, and last of the n/a 6.
skinny said:
Probably when petrol cars are banned from most cities...! As in, i can't see anytime soon, if ever.
The 997.1 is still above 20k, above 30k for a 997.2.
The 991 is one of the best looking 911's, and last of the n/a 6.
But everything loses value they are not depreciation proof. The 997.1 is still above 20k, above 30k for a 997.2.
The 991 is one of the best looking 911's, and last of the n/a 6.
Welshbeef said:
skinny said:
Probably when petrol cars are banned from most cities...! As in, i can't see anytime soon, if ever.
The 997.1 is still above 20k, above 30k for a 997.2.
The 991 is one of the best looking 911's, and last of the n/a 6.
But everything loses value they are not depreciation proof. The 997.1 is still above 20k, above 30k for a 997.2.
The 991 is one of the best looking 911's, and last of the n/a 6.
hilly10 said:
This thread is of interest to me as I am looking to scratch my very itchy Porsche itch. I am set on a 997 with a budget of 32k tops but the worry of bore score and IMS bearing, would I be better off selling the wife and looking for a Generation 2.
For £25-£30k you are going to get a really good 987.2 Cayman (bombproof) or a 981 Cayman, both of which will do very very nicely for scratching that itch. If the itch is only for a 911 (short sighted in my opinion as the mid engined pork is superb) then do as has been suggested and get a bore inspection and the best spec you can. Most people prefer a full porsche service history although if it's a great indie with a good reputation then perhaps it doesn't matter so much to some. I bought my gen 2 987 CS from Parr Porsche in Crawley and it came with a warranty. This full Hartech'ed 3.6 has been for sale for a couple of months. I think the original ad mentioned a crunchy 2nd gear but now it does not. Blue seats are a bit pants if you ask me. If you must get a 997 then this looks ok considering the recent £16600 bill. Has a 24 month warranty on the engine but should easily manage 5 to .... 20 years without concern.
£25,495
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254326641562
£25,495
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254326641562
ATM said:
This full Hartech'ed 3.6 has been for sale for a couple of months. I think the original ad mentioned a crunchy 2nd gear but now it does not. Blue seats are a bit pants if you ask me. If you must get a 997 then this looks ok considering the recent £16600 bill. Has a 24 month warranty on the engine but should easily manage 5 to .... 20 years without concern.
£25,495
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254326641562
That’s got to be a good buy, it would be about £19k-£20k so you’re getting the New engine cheap and the owner looks like they did it right just from the soze of the bill- personally if I was doing it I’d do both cylinder banks- even though the first bank doesn’t score- I would just want it all done and worry free£25,495
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254326641562
jakesmith said:
ATM said:
This full Hartech'ed 3.6 has been for sale for a couple of months. I think the original ad mentioned a crunchy 2nd gear but now it does not. Blue seats are a bit pants if you ask me. If you must get a 997 then this looks ok considering the recent £16600 bill. Has a 24 month warranty on the engine but should easily manage 5 to .... 20 years without concern.
£25,495
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254326641562
That’s got to be a good buy, it would be about £19k-£20k so you’re getting the New engine cheap and the owner looks like they did it right just from the soze of the bill- personally if I was doing it I’d do both cylinder banks- even though the first bank doesn’t score- I would just want it all done and worry free£25,495
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254326641562
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