997 prices

[ATM]

ianwayne said:

skinny said:

Probably when petrol cars are banned from most cities...! As in, i can't see anytime soon, if ever.
The 997.1 is still above 20k, above 30k for a 997.2.
The 991 is one of the best looking 911's, and last of the n/a 6.

Check out the 2 pages of 997.1 cars that are below £20k on A/T (17 of them):

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price...

Only 3 of them have 100k + miles on the clock.

There are even 2 x 997.1 Carrera S models for under £20k:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price...

There was no qualification about Cabriolet, tip etc.

If you want a cheap 997 you need to check out the auctions on Ebay.

[The3rdDukeofB]

jakesmith said:

The3rdDukeofB said:

My non-S Targa 997 had all of those.

Not the power surely?
Also, wouldn’t that have cost more to spec than an S presumably?

Well, no - not the power clearly.

The car was not new to me, but first registered to Porsche I believe.

[Adam B]

The3rdDukeofB said:

Well, no - not the power clearly.

The car was not new to me, but first registered to Porsche I believe.

Then Porsche added them as cost options, not surprisingly you don’t get many poverty spec demo cars!

[golfer19]

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

What does the more knowledgable think about this.
Engine rebuild but not Harlech.
Would it be peace of mind motoring.

[jakesmith]

Looks a well looked after car
The rebuild isn’t a bad thing at around 70,000 miles
The revised ims is also good
If you’re looking for something to keep forever then I’d look for a Hartech or Gen 2 car though as if it has been rebuilt to same spec the original design errors will still be there

They seem to fail at reasonable miles like 50-80ish so if you have a 911 itch to scratch for a year or two or plan on doing less than 40,000 miles before changing it l wouldn’t be bothered

The issue is if you love it and keep it long term you’re theoretically exposed

Also the guy in the advert claiming the 3.6 is less problem prone is not my understanding of it as evidenced by the fact it’s been rebuilt. Loads of the 3.4 engines fail and the 3.6 is more stressed (very similar engine). Just less of them about as once you’d put decent spec on the 3.6 it was into 3.8 money.

[Welshbeef]

Engine rebuilds @ 70,000 isn’t a bad thing - shocked.

Diesels should keep going 400-500k miles if serviced routinely and driven with due consideration.

Petrols 300k shouldn’t be out of the question too again with just routine servicing and sensible way of driving it.

For a modern car needing engine rebuilds at70k miles it’s woeful quality control.

[ATM]

Welshbeef said:

Engine rebuilds @ 70,000 isn’t a bad thing - shocked.

Diesels should keep going 400-500k miles if serviced routinely and driven with due consideration.

Petrols 300k shouldn’t be out of the question too again with just routine servicing and sensible way of driving it.

For a modern car needing engine rebuilds at70k miles it’s woeful quality control.

I've seen 997 cars advertised for sale with around 70k on their third engine or second rebuild which ever you prefer.

[jakesmith]

Welshbeef said:

Engine rebuilds @ 70,000 isn’t a bad thing - shocked.

Diesels should keep going 400-500k miles if serviced routinely and driven with due consideration.

Petrols 300k shouldn’t be out of the question too again with just routine servicing and sensible way of driving it.

For a modern car needing engine rebuilds at70k miles it’s woeful quality control.

You stupid boy!

[ooid]

golfer19 said:

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

What does the more knowledgable think about this.
Engine rebuild but not Harlech.
Would it be peace of mind motoring.

What you/we see is just the shell and interiors. Yeah, it looks clean (I think). But you would never know before, taking these car on the ramp and diagnose with a specialist/technician who know about these cars.. Engine, gearbox, exhaust, cooling system, and etc...

Then ofcourse test-driving it, would give you the final decision. Remember today is just 21k Porsche, but tomorrow it could be a non-starter 911 in your drive-way easily, with these models, and that's the risk.

[anonymous-user]

I’m noticed a bit of a drop in gen2’s over the past few months. Certainly a few grand cheaper than this time last year.

[golfer19]

jakesmith said:

Looks a well looked after car
The rebuild isn’t a bad thing at around 70,000 miles
The revised ims is also good
If you’re looking for something to keep forever then I’d look for a Hartech or Gen 2 car though as if it has been rebuilt to same spec the original design errors will still be there

They seem to fail at reasonable miles like 50-80ish so if you have a 911 itch to scratch for a year or two or plan on doing less than 40,000 miles before changing it l wouldn’t be bothered

The issue is if you love it and keep it long term you’re theoretically exposed

Also the guy in the advert claiming the 3.6 is less problem prone is not my understanding of it as evidenced by the fact it’s been rebuilt. Loads of the 3.4 engines fail and the 3.6 is more stressed (very similar engine). Just less of them about as once you’d put decent spec on the 3.6 it was into 3.8 money.

Thanks for that.
It's definitely a bit of a minefield if you are looking at the earlier 997.

[Welshbeef]

ATM said:

Welshbeef said:

Engine rebuilds @ 70,000 isn’t a bad thing - shocked.

Diesels should keep going 400-500k miles if serviced routinely and driven with due consideration.

Petrols 300k shouldn’t be out of the question too again with just routine servicing and sensible way of driving it.

For a modern car needing engine rebuilds at70k miles it’s woeful quality control.

I've seen 997 cars advertised for sale with around 70k on their third engine or second rebuild which ever you prefer.

Woeful quality control - TVR was never that bad and they were a kit car company not PORSCHE

[jakesmith]

Welshbeef said:

Woeful quality control - TVR was never that bad and they were a kit car company not PORSCHE

You’re not wrong and what makes it more shocking is their dire attitude towards their customers.

Even the IMS class action in the US was something like 25% contribution if the car was 6 years old, if I remember right, pathetic.

My Dad has a 2009 Audi A4 with full Audi history, that started using too much oil. Last year it went to Audi for diagnostic work. Needed a new engine and Audi did it completely free of charge. Then this year my 2008 R8 had some bubbling on the lower front edge of the bonnet. Got a goodwill contribution of 70% to the £3500 bill for a brand new painted bonnet. That’s looking after your customers.

However relative to the situation where the guy is buying an old 997 that is prone to engine failure, a rebuild at 70,000 is good, not bad.

[ATM]

golfer19 said:

Thanks for that.
It's definitely a bit of a minefield if you are looking at the earlier 997.

I will layout some estimates for other stuff once you have moved on from the engine starting with gearbox concerns. These dont last forever. New manual box from Porsche is probably 10 grand. A rebuild is probably 3 grand and only has new bearings inside. Anything busted or worn needs replacement. 2nd gear is a known weak point on these.

Cables running from the lever to the box are consumable and cost 200 quid.

Clutch change is probably 2 grand if you need a flywheel. These normally get tacked onto to any gearbox out jobs. Clutch does last a while but just gets heavier and heavier to operate.

The clutch mechanism is hydraulic and if you need a new master cylinder, slave cylinder and clutch pipe thats another grand.

Then all the suspension is consumable. A full suspension refresh is probably 3 to 4 grand in parts only then more for labour depending who does the work.

Brakes are a grand for discs and pads. Brake pipes are another grand if you have these fitted and they do age - I'm referring to the hard lines running along the floor. One goes over the gearbox and a genuine Porsche part requires gearbox removal - see clutch comment above.

Then you have the rads and condensors - I'd guess a grand. Again these are consumable because they get hammered out front and then rubbish likes leaves grt stuck and then breakdown and turn into crude and trap moisture.

Then you have steering rack.

Then you have various pipes for power steering and water coolant running full length of the car as its rear engined.

Lots of consumable items in engine bay.

Plugs and coil packs.

Water pump.

Variocam solenoids I think is a common fault on these.

Even a key is 165 quid.

Hopefully you get the idea.

Once you've owned a slightly older Porsche and seen how these bills add up quickly you can become a little jaded towards the pretty looking cars.

If you see genuinely well maintained examples then have a read of the history.

[golfer19]

ATM said:

golfer19 said:

Thanks for that.
It's definitely a bit of a minefield if you are looking at the earlier 997.

I will layout some estimates for other stuff once you have moved on from the engine starting with gearbox concerns. These dont last forever. New manual box from Porsche is probably 10 grand. A rebuild is probably 3 grand and only has new bearings inside. Anything busted or worn needs replacement. 2nd gear is a known weak point on these.

Cables running from the lever to the box are consumable and cost 200 quid.

Clutch change is probably 2 grand if you need a flywheel. These normally get tacked onto to any gearbox out jobs. Clutch does last a while but just gets heavier and heavier to operate.

The clutch mechanism is hydraulic and if you need a new master cylinder, slave cylinder and clutch pipe thats another grand.

Then all the suspension is consumable. A full suspension refresh is probably 3 to 4 grand in parts only then more for labour depending who does the work.

Brakes are a grand for discs and pads. Brake pipes are another grand if you have these fitted and they do age - I'm referring to the hard lines running along the floor. One goes over the gearbox and a genuine Porsche part requires gearbox removal - see clutch comment above.

Then you have the rads and condensors - I'd guess a grand. Again these are consumable because they get hammered out front and then rubbish likes leaves grt stuck and then breakdown and turn into crude and trap moisture.

Then you have steering rack.

Then you have various pipes for power steering and water coolant running full length of the car as its rear engined.

Lots of consumable items in engine bay.

Plugs and coil packs.

Water pump.

Variocam solenoids I think is a common fault on these.

Even a key is 165 quid.

Hopefully you get the idea.

Once you've owned a slightly older Porsche and seen how these bills add up quickly you can become a little jaded towards the pretty looking cars.

If you see genuinely well maintained examples then have a read of the history.

Thanks for taking the time,
That`s a bit of an eye opener - reality check.
It`s a case of buying on condition and history rather than mileage.

[FarQue]

golfer19 said:

Thanks for taking the time,
That`s a bit of an eye opener - reality check.
It`s a case of buying on condition and history rather than mileage.

Yep - condition and history is EVERYTHING when considering a used 997. Had ours since early 2012. Just last year we had ALL the coolant pipe assembly replaced, effectively as part of routine servicing: a £1600 job (because the pipes/unions don't last).

Interestingly, we paid £32k for the car with 37k miles on it, from OPC Bolton back in January 2012 - which was about the right price for the (then 7 year old) car from an OPC back then. A friend has just purchased a very similar car from an Independent Specialist: now 13 years old, with more mileage, for the same money! Who said OPC's are expensive, or that 997 values aren't doing ok? On the flip-side though, there are a ton of cheap 997s out there for £20k or less.

[jakesmith]

I did get a brand new gearbox in a 997 for £4K although they didn’t charge labour. It did kill me that year we had a pretty crap summer holiday but we’ll short of £10k quoted above. The general post is accurate though. Lots of expensive things to go wrong.

[ATM]

jakesmith said:

I did get a brand new gearbox in a 997 for £4K although they didn’t charge labour. It did kill me that year we had a pretty crap summer holiday but we’ll short of £10k quoted above. The general post is accurate though. Lots of expensive things to go wrong.

4k sounds cheap, really cheap. You did well.

I enquired about a pdk gearbox for a 981 a few weeks at the OPC. They said 6500 exchange. I was quite surprised - that's not as bad as I was thinking.

[Filibuster]

FarQue said:

golfer19 said:

Thanks for taking the time,
That`s a bit of an eye opener - reality check.
It`s a case of buying on condition and history rather than mileage.

Yep - condition and history is EVERYTHING when considering a used 997. Had ours since early 2012. Just last year we had ALL the coolant pipe assembly replaced, effectively as part of routine servicing: a £1600 job (because the pipes/unions don't last).

Interestingly, we paid £32k for the car with 37k miles on it, from OPC Bolton back in January 2012 - which was about the right price for the (then 7 year old) car from an OPC back then. A friend has just purchased a very similar car from an Independent Specialist: now 13 years old, with more mileage, for the same money! Who said OPC's are expensive, or that 997 values aren't doing ok? On the flip-side though, there are a ton of cheap 997s out there for £20k or less.

I allow myself to direct you to my reader's car thread.
Two years ago, I bought a 997 with 190'000 miles on it. It's on its second engine, the first one has been replaced by Porsche under warranty @ 100'000 miles due to a terminal IMS fault. The replacement engine has the big bore IMS.
Today I'm at 205'000 miles and couldn't be more happy.
At the time it was the cheapest 997, certainly on the continent (prices over here, especially in Switzerland are considerably higher than in the UK).

This car certainly is the rolling proof that condition and history are way more important than mileage!

[jakesmith]

ATM said:

4k sounds cheap, really cheap. You did well.

I enquired about a pdk gearbox for a 981 a few weeks at the OPC. They said 6500 exchange. I was quite surprised - that's not as bad as I was thinking.

Mine was a 6 speed getrag manual