Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
In which case it’s a massive opportunity for a cheap buy for those who do not worry about miles on a meaningless odometer. I’m guessing WBaC do not want these 12 year old cars so give you a humiliating offer.
Traders in the sports car market know about the mileage issue and price you down hard
Or used private buyers who may or may not know the above. But clearly used buyers will be toying between a 996 Aero body/Carrera 4S v a 997 Carrera S and it’s then a value proposition/taking all emotion out of it
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
The *fleet* worked for me previously but change of Job / Circumstances makes the 4x4 and 911 needing to go for a dull diesel estate.
Anyway. WBaC are offering 23k according to the algorithms.
I can't see Audi / Volvo being any more generous and TBH I'm probably going to lease a white goods car for two years, so again - that means a private sale sooner than later makes the sense.
I agree with CMoose that people get sniffy about the miles on a 911 / 997 and as my ad and I think I have also said on here : My higher miles car has had some of the big bills taken car of the lesser 50, to 60,000 cars have coming.
And a 60,000 mile car will soon become a 90,000 mile car anyway - so whats the. problem ?
It's simply a mental attitude.
I have no experience of how 'seasonal' or how the weather changes things.
Honest question at what point £ do you pull the ad and use the 997 for this new driving and the higher fuel and running costs simply would take year and years and years to cover the extra depreciation. Anyway. WBaC are offering 23k according to the algorithms.
I can't see Audi / Volvo being any more generous and TBH I'm probably going to lease a white goods car for two years, so again - that means a private sale sooner than later makes the sense.
I agree with CMoose that people get sniffy about the miles on a 911 / 997 and as my ad and I think I have also said on here : My higher miles car has had some of the big bills taken car of the lesser 50, to 60,000 cars have coming.
And a 60,000 mile car will soon become a 90,000 mile car anyway - so whats the. problem ?
It's simply a mental attitude.
I have no experience of how 'seasonal' or how the weather changes things.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Honest answer - don't know and am dons at the moment but it knows at me that in the eye of the buyer I am doing more damage... So next weekend my daughter and I are going from North Yorkshire to Bath and back in the Trooper... (albeit we can take bikes and crap with us too)
its more a case of tightening belts too tbh. Running three cars as a single-ish guy is stupid for the moment. The MX5 I have had for 20yrs and it is going no where - not withstanding I promised it to the four year old !
So a dull low cost A6 or something for a while.
I will get another 911 in due course - and for cross country - getting somewhere at the dead of night, they are epic.
Putting 12k miles on a 997 a year is not a cheap exercise - on the day Orr in the long run IMHO.
What no doubt does not help is the Marmite factor of the Targa. Those love and those hate them..... So its a very small audience I feel that is looking for one - let alone a leggy one.
Its priced accordingly I feel though..
I’d say the targa is probably the best of all worlds 911 - panoramic roof and it opens up a decent amount too. its more a case of tightening belts too tbh. Running three cars as a single-ish guy is stupid for the moment. The MX5 I have had for 20yrs and it is going no where - not withstanding I promised it to the four year old !
So a dull low cost A6 or something for a while.
I will get another 911 in due course - and for cross country - getting somewhere at the dead of night, they are epic.
Putting 12k miles on a 997 a year is not a cheap exercise - on the day Orr in the long run IMHO.
What no doubt does not help is the Marmite factor of the Targa. Those love and those hate them..... So its a very small audience I feel that is looking for one - let alone a leggy one.
Its priced accordingly I feel though..
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Autotrader, here on PH, was a classified on EBay and 911 World
Black Targa with 89,000 miles
Can I make an observation, if you do not mind and hopefully do not get me wrong. If I'm looking at the correct car, I think your pictures do not help. It is a really beautiful car, and obviously very well looked after. I wish all your pictures would be good, just like the first picture (the one showing from front end). The rest of the pictures, quite dark at some areas (shadows) and loads of reflections on the glass and dashboard. There are also loads of distractions around and somehow angles do not help. I think with better pictures, it will go ahead, not sure about current prices but definitely the current ad do not show the potential of the car.Black Targa with 89,000 miles
Ps: I'm not a car sales man really, but my job is dealing with visuals mainly with property and architecture, so we do usually rely on super quality images.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
So : dump the price ?
It’s a one way street I was considering and conscious of, especially if folks say the market hardens up soon. No return iykwim.
So that’s the question I raised this morning- how does the price change with sunshine ?
Targa prices seem to be higher than Carreras though ?
And last I looked it was cheaper than others - and better spec (albeit higher miles) than others.
I don’t want to be mugged clearly, but also happy to sell at the right price.
When I spoke to Malton and 911Virgin they also admitted they didn’t know how to price such a ‘Targa’.
I don’t think Carrera prospective buyers will buy a Targa and vice Versa.
What about people coming into 911 ownership for the first time - surely to them it’s a 911 they want and a targa/panoramic roof in all other cars they will have owned is a pricy extra so It’s a one way street I was considering and conscious of, especially if folks say the market hardens up soon. No return iykwim.
So that’s the question I raised this morning- how does the price change with sunshine ?
Targa prices seem to be higher than Carreras though ?
And last I looked it was cheaper than others - and better spec (albeit higher miles) than others.
I don’t want to be mugged clearly, but also happy to sell at the right price.
When I spoke to Malton and 911Virgin they also admitted they didn’t know how to price such a ‘Targa’.
I don’t think Carrera prospective buyers will buy a Targa and vice Versa.
This is a really interesting thread and goes way beyond the 997 prices and mileage...
For me mileage on a car is especially important... Important that it’s not too low.. you see all these low mileage cars with hardly any miles... sitting for a long time,, not turning over ....on trickle charge....flat spots on the tyres and generally not being used.. Then when they are being used thrashed to oblivion then sat for months again because....
‘ if I put mileage on it , it will depreciate’
I have plenty of friends like that and it’s ridiculous....
I’ve had a few older low mileage cars for their age and they’ve all been rubbish... looked great, spotless interior, but mechanically there was always something that needed to be done.... However, cars I’ve had new and put heavy miles on or those I have bought on condition with heavy miles have been a lot less hassle......
If I was in the market for a 997 and I was a few years ago, but didn’t press the button, I’d prefer a normal standard mileage car or even higher mileage, that’s been garaged and looked after, no damage or repair and loved...... A loved car doesn’t sit in a garage, a loved car gets driven...
To finish this largely irrelevant post.. a business colleague of mine has a 991.1 C4S... I think it’s a 14 plate... it’s his daily....already at 60k mileage, not an issue, loves it, looks after it and without the numbers on the clock you would think it was nearly new..... It’s a loved car....his ambition.... and I really mean that..... his ambition is to get it to £200k miles....!
For me mileage on a car is especially important... Important that it’s not too low.. you see all these low mileage cars with hardly any miles... sitting for a long time,, not turning over ....on trickle charge....flat spots on the tyres and generally not being used.. Then when they are being used thrashed to oblivion then sat for months again because....
‘ if I put mileage on it , it will depreciate’
I have plenty of friends like that and it’s ridiculous....
I’ve had a few older low mileage cars for their age and they’ve all been rubbish... looked great, spotless interior, but mechanically there was always something that needed to be done.... However, cars I’ve had new and put heavy miles on or those I have bought on condition with heavy miles have been a lot less hassle......
If I was in the market for a 997 and I was a few years ago, but didn’t press the button, I’d prefer a normal standard mileage car or even higher mileage, that’s been garaged and looked after, no damage or repair and loved...... A loved car doesn’t sit in a garage, a loved car gets driven...
To finish this largely irrelevant post.. a business colleague of mine has a 991.1 C4S... I think it’s a 14 plate... it’s his daily....already at 60k mileage, not an issue, loves it, looks after it and without the numbers on the clock you would think it was nearly new..... It’s a loved car....his ambition.... and I really mean that..... his ambition is to get it to £200k miles....!
Given so many for sale are all below 100k miles it really does make you think how many of these have had the clock played with especially as apparently they are hugely mileage sensitive.
I can understand not piling on the miles of a 993 GT2 as that might impact its value BUT a mass produced 996/997+ who cares about miles these are cars that can be used Day in day out. Sure if you want to run it on low annual miles do so but do not hold back in the hope that it will kill value.
I can understand not piling on the miles of a 993 GT2 as that might impact its value BUT a mass produced 996/997+ who cares about miles these are cars that can be used Day in day out. Sure if you want to run it on low annual miles do so but do not hold back in the hope that it will kill value.
Secret director said:
This is a really interesting thread and goes way beyond the 997 prices and mileage...
For me mileage on a car is especially important... Important that it’s not too low.. you see all these low mileage cars with hardly any miles... sitting for a long time,, not turning over ....on trickle charge....flat spots on the tyres and generally not being used.. Then when they are being used thrashed to oblivion then sat for months again because....
‘ if I put mileage on it , it will depreciate’
I have plenty of friends like that and it’s ridiculous....
I’ve had a few older low mileage cars for their age and they’ve all been rubbish... looked great, spotless interior, but mechanically there was always something that needed to be done.... However, cars I’ve had new and put heavy miles on or those I have bought on condition with heavy miles have been a lot less hassle......
If I was in the market for a 997 and I was a few years ago, but didn’t press the button, I’d prefer a normal standard mileage car or even higher mileage, that’s been garaged and looked after, no damage or repair and loved...... A loved car doesn’t sit in a garage, a loved car gets driven...
To finish this largely irrelevant post.. a business colleague of mine has a 991.1 C4S... I think it’s a 14 plate... it’s his daily....already at 60k mileage, not an issue, loves it, looks after it and without the numbers on the clock you would think it was nearly new..... It’s a loved car....his ambition.... and I really mean that..... his ambition is to get it to £200k miles....!
For what it's worth I agree, I bought a 997.2 with 60k on the clock in 2016, I moved my other 2 cars and it's now my only car and it has 84k on the clock, I enjoy using it in all weathers and I will come back and post at 100k and 200k For me mileage on a car is especially important... Important that it’s not too low.. you see all these low mileage cars with hardly any miles... sitting for a long time,, not turning over ....on trickle charge....flat spots on the tyres and generally not being used.. Then when they are being used thrashed to oblivion then sat for months again because....
‘ if I put mileage on it , it will depreciate’
I have plenty of friends like that and it’s ridiculous....
I’ve had a few older low mileage cars for their age and they’ve all been rubbish... looked great, spotless interior, but mechanically there was always something that needed to be done.... However, cars I’ve had new and put heavy miles on or those I have bought on condition with heavy miles have been a lot less hassle......
If I was in the market for a 997 and I was a few years ago, but didn’t press the button, I’d prefer a normal standard mileage car or even higher mileage, that’s been garaged and looked after, no damage or repair and loved...... A loved car doesn’t sit in a garage, a loved car gets driven...
To finish this largely irrelevant post.. a business colleague of mine has a 991.1 C4S... I think it’s a 14 plate... it’s his daily....already at 60k mileage, not an issue, loves it, looks after it and without the numbers on the clock you would think it was nearly new..... It’s a loved car....his ambition.... and I really mean that..... his ambition is to get it to £200k miles....!
. Corky said:
For what it's worth I agree, I bought a 997.2 with 60k on the clock in 2016, I moved my other 2 cars and it's now my only car and it has 84k on the clock, I enjoy using it in all weathers and I will come back and post at 100k and 200k .
Great plan...... can’t see the point in owning it if you’re not using it.... and you are driving a 911 daily.... How does it get better than that...??.!!. croyde said:
Although I personally would be worried about spending over £20k on an old secondhand car (cos I'm not well off )
When I see something like this:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I could be sorely tempted.
How can a 2006 car look so good 12 years later.
You should see the state of my owned since new 1998 BMW
Well it's still listed nearly 3 weeks later. As discussed at length, it is most probably the mileage. )When I see something like this:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I could be sorely tempted.
How can a 2006 car look so good 12 years later.
You should see the state of my owned since new 1998 BMW
Edited by croyde on Monday 12th March 12:03
I'm a prospective 911 owner; I'm looking but am prepared to wait until the right car comes along. I'm setting my sights on a 997.2 with PDK; I only do about 4K miles a year (retired).
However, the price of 997.2 cars and the size of the car park of this model (few produced and numbers dwindling) is leading me in the direction of a 991, whose car park is much larger. It seems to me that the prices on 997.2 cars is coming down but slowly whereas the prices on 991's is coming down faster.
Oddly enough I can see what many 911 aficionados believe: that the 997.2 is a "better" 911 than the 991, although maybe a 991 is better for an old man like me. I can see that if and when I'm ready to pull the trigger it might well be either a 997.2 or a 991.
However, the price of 997.2 cars and the size of the car park of this model (few produced and numbers dwindling) is leading me in the direction of a 991, whose car park is much larger. It seems to me that the prices on 997.2 cars is coming down but slowly whereas the prices on 991's is coming down faster.
Oddly enough I can see what many 911 aficionados believe: that the 997.2 is a "better" 911 than the 991, although maybe a 991 is better for an old man like me. I can see that if and when I'm ready to pull the trigger it might well be either a 997.2 or a 991.
£20.5k for this seemingly very good example of a 2004 C2S manual in a nice colour, 79k miles.
Owner selling after less than one year though so could be hiding something who knows.
I didn’t realise prices were at this kind of level but haven’t looked for a while:
https://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/2004-porsche-...
Owner selling after less than one year though so could be hiding something who knows.
I didn’t realise prices were at this kind of level but haven’t looked for a while:
https://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/2004-porsche-...
PS2018 said:
£20.5k for this seemingly very good example of a 2004 C2S manual in a nice colour, 79k miles.
Owner selling after less than one year though so could be hiding something who knows.
I didn’t realise prices were at this kind of level but haven’t looked for a while:
https://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/2004-porsche-...
Not that fast v hot hatches these days plus the IMS or people think dodgy engines on themOwner selling after less than one year though so could be hiding something who knows.
I didn’t realise prices were at this kind of level but haven’t looked for a while:
https://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/2004-porsche-...
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