Porsche 993/964 historic prices

[pete.g]

I pulled an 05 copy of 911 and Porsche World off the shelf to see what it had in the classified ads:

964RS, RHD, 47K miles - £36,995


964 Turbo - £38750 at Autofarm

more ordinary 964s from £15k upwards

993 C4S - £27500 - £34,500


993s from the early 20s up.

Loads of 3.2s in the low teens. A couple in 4 figure territory.

Going out to one of the sheds now to make a time machine - how much are DeLoreans going for nowadays?

[pete.g]

I pulled an 05 copy of 911 and Porsche World off the shelf to see what it had in the classified ads:

964RS, RHD, 47K miles - £36,995


964 Turbo - £38750 at Autofarm

more ordinary 964s from £15k upwards

993 C4S - £27500 - £34,500


993s from the early 20s up.

Loads of 3.2s in the low teens. A couple in 4 figure territory.

Going out to one of the sheds now to make a time machine - how much are DeLoreans going for nowadays?

[BertBert]

Double gauche said:

Talk to ken @nineexcellence about your imaginary car
i had a quote from him for materially less than the figures quoted
then look at his website for some of the projects he has done, the cars are lovely

I like 9E a lot, but I find it very hard to imagine much that they do anything at bottom tier pricing!

[IMI A]

BertBert said:

Double gauche said:

Talk to ken @nineexcellence about your imaginary car
i had a quote from him for materially less than the figures quoted
then look at his website for some of the projects he has done, the cars are lovely

I like 9E a lot, but I find it very hard to imagine much that they do anything at bottom tier pricing!

9e have been brilliant on my old 997.

800bhp and 30,000 trouble free miles. The amount of work they’ve done for me without charging ridiculous. Must have had 15 revisions on tunes. Fitted sports exhaust on 991.2 turbo s for nothing. Test 997 at VMAX on multiple occasions when I’m not around. Top top people and firm. Think I still have Ken’s VBOX and some other diagnostic equipment etc. Never chased me for it. And all their engine rebuilds come with 12 month warranty and in terms of power etc always under promise over deliver. The 997 they’ve tuned for me is f—— rapid.

[IMI A]

lovely build thread on an old 993 here. Inspirational stuff in terms of the amazing end result - my fave 993.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=103102&postda...

[Slippydiff]

IMI A said:

9e have been brilliant on my old 997.

800bhp and 30,000 trouble free miles. The amount of work they’ve done for me without charging ridiculous. Must have had 15 revisions on tunes. Fitted sports exhaust on 991.2 turbo s for nothing. Test 997 at VMAX on multiple occasions when I’m not around. Top top people and firm. Think I still have Ken’s VBOX and some other diagnostic equipment etc. Never chased me for it. And all their engine rebuilds come with 12 month warranty and in terms of power etc always under promise over deliver. The 997 they’ve tuned for me is f—— rapid.

Yeh, I've heard their maps aren't the best Sorry, I couldn't resist that I

If you want a 993 to top them all, it's got to be this one :

http://www.joemacari.com/All-Cars-for-Sale/_prod_P...

I think JM is leaning on his pen a bit heavily with this one, but it's proper weapon (and has some first class provenance : 'Ring lap record holder, based on a 993 RS Clubsport, RS Tuning engine, the proper Works Bilstein suspension etc etc)

Trade your yellow peril in for something that's nice halfway house between the 997 T and the 993 RS rep

[IMI A]

Slippydiff said:

IMI A said:

9e have been brilliant on my old 997.

800bhp and 30,000 trouble free miles. The amount of work they’ve done for me without charging ridiculous. Must have had 15 revisions on tunes. Fitted sports exhaust on 991.2 turbo s for nothing. Test 997 at VMAX on multiple occasions when I’m not around. Top top people and firm. Think I still have Ken’s VBOX and some other diagnostic equipment etc. Never chased me for it. And all their engine rebuilds come with 12 month warranty and in terms of power etc always under promise over deliver. The 997 they’ve tuned for me is f—— rapid.

Yeh, I've heard their maps aren't the best Sorry, I couldn't resist that I

If you want a 993 to top them all, it's got to be this one :

http://www.joemacari.com/All-Cars-for-Sale/_prod_P...

I think JM is leaning on his pen a bit heavily with this one, but it's proper weapon (and has some first class provenance : 'Ring lap record holder, based on a 993 RS Clubsport, RS Tuning engine, the proper Works Bilstein suspension etc etc)

Trade your yellow peril in for something that's nice halfway house between the 997 T and the 993 RS rep

Belongs to the same owner who commissioned the Yellow Peril. 997 so useable hard to sell. I'd swap for a 720s though!

Any views on what a fair price for a high miles but good 993 should be for a hot rod type project for OP?

[v8ksn]

Slippydiff said:

If you want a 993 to top them all, it's got to be this one :

http://www.joemacari.com/All-Cars-for-Sale/_prod_P...

That is gorgeous but just a little out of my price range..... Like £200K more

[v8ksn]

IMI A said:

lovely build thread on an old 993 here. Inspirational stuff in terms of the amazing end result - my fave 993.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=103102&postda...

I'll have a read of that now, nice one.

[SRT Hellcat]

I do agree that a top end repaint should be far less than £10K as long as it does not require cills, kidney bowls etc.
As for longevity. I had a one owner 1994 993 that needed new valve guides at 28,000 miles.
The wifes very nice 993C2S tip silver with blue. 105,000 miles I sold in 2010 for £18500.

[Slippydiff]

IMI A said:

Belongs to the same owner who commissioned the Yellow Peril. 997 so useable hard to sell. I'd swap for a 720s though!

Any views on what a fair price for a high miles but good 993 should be for a hot rod type project for OP?

£40K.

[CrashBang]

Porsche911R said:

CrashBang said:

Yes I can, I have already made that clear - Your friends whom are paying the numbers you have quoted are being taken for a ride!

FFS post some companies then. it's like pulling teeth atm with no answers, just noise !!

Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 22 August 16:05

To be honest I would rather see you having your pants pulled down! - If anyone else wants the info PM me!

[v8ksn]

Slippydiff said:

IMI A said:

Belongs to the same owner who commissioned the Yellow Peril. 997 so useable hard to sell. I'd swap for a 720s though!

Any views on what a fair price for a high miles but good 993 should be for a hot rod type project for OP?

£40K.

Nice one guys. I must admit, I just don't understand the market at the moment. This car was for sale at £55K for a week or so and now the price has been increased to £65K

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

[g7jhp]

v8ksn said:

Nice one guys. I must admit, I just don't understand the market at the moment. This car was for sale at £55K for a week or so and now the price has been increased to £65K

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

v8ksn I think you'd be really shocked driving A 993 C4 after a 997.1 GT3.

I had a mint 1996 993 C4 (so varioram) and I never clicked with it and went back to another 3.2 Carrera.

[v8ksn]

g7jhp said:

v8ksn I think you'd be really shocked driving A 993 C4 after a 997.1 GT3.

I had a mint 1996 993 C4 (so varioram) and I never clicked with it and went back to another 3.2 Carrera.

Why didn't you get on with it? I would be really interested to know what you didn't like.

I have not driven a 993 yet but I had frequent access to a 964 many years ago and I loved driving that.

[g7jhp]

v8ksn said:

Why didn't you get on with it? I would be really interested to know what you didn't like.

I have not driven a 993 yet but I had frequent access to a 964 many years ago and I loved driving that.

Background my 3.2 Carrera was circa £17k. Not sure if you've driven one, but I'd describe them as quite agricultural. No driver aids, heavy at parking speeds and weight up nicely when on the move. Not fast, but fun on a spirited drive and a great some (that aircooled flat 6, smell (the oil) and classic 911 looks...the upright headlights.

I spent time finding a lovely 1996 Polar Silver 993 C4 (varioram) manual, coupe with black leather and sports seats. I'd yearned for the 993 as it looked more modern and on paper seemed a natural step up the aircooled ladder. It was comfortable and far more modern to drive but it felt heavier as a car, the performance wasn't a massive jump forward that I was expecting (turbo diesels would give you a run) and it didn't feel as special as my previous 3.2. The plastic bumpers felt cheaper. Given that it was twice the cost it didn't seem worth the extra.

Perhaps a 993 C2 would have been a better bet, or a 964 C2. I went back to another 3.2 Carrera which I loved. Since then
my 996 turbo has certainly delivered far more on the performance, handling and overall experience than the 993 C4.

No rights or wrongs the 993 C4 just wasn't for me, but you may love it. I'd certainly do and drive a couple to get a basic idea of the experience before you make the switch.

If I was looking for an aircooled 911 it would be another G50 3.2 Carrera or 964 C2.

Good luck.

[v8ksn]

g7jhp said:

Background my 3.2 Carrera was circa £17k. Not sure if you've driven one, but I'd describe them as quite agricultural. No driver aids, heavy at parking speeds and weight up nicely when on the move. Not fast, but fun on a spirited drive and a great some (that aircooled flat 6, smell (the oil) and classic 911 looks...the upright headlights.

I spent time finding a lovely 1996 Polar Silver 993 C4 (varioram) manual, coupe with black leather and sports seats. I'd yearned for the 993 as it looked more modern and on paper seemed a natural step up the aircooled ladder. It was comfortable and far more modern to drive but it felt heavier as a car, the performance wasn't a massive jump forward that I was expecting (turbo diesels would give you a run) and it didn't feel as special as my previous 3.2. The plastic bumpers felt cheaper. Given that it was twice the cost it didn't seem worth the extra.

Perhaps a 993 C2 would have been a better bet, or a 964 C2. I went back to another 3.2 Carrera which I loved. Since then
my 996 turbo has certainly delivered far more on the performance, handling and overall experience than the 993 C4.

No rights or wrongs the 993 C4 just wasn't for me, but you may love it. I'd certainly do and drive a couple to get a basic idea of the experience before you make the switch.

If I was looking for an aircooled 911 it would be another G50 3.2 Carrera or 964 C2.

Good luck.

Thank you for your open and honest post.

I love my GT3 and I have had some truly amazing and memorable drives in it. The sound it makes at full chat and the speed it can carry into corners is fantastic but I am beginning to feel that it's not how fast you can go, but how you go fast.

Recently I started a thread called Big Numbers and these big numbers the car can achieve worry me. There is still fun to be had driving the car at less than 10/10ths but the very nature of the car goads you into hooligan behaviour. The car wants you to behave badly, it wants you to drive at truly antisocial speeds and the rewards when you give in are plentiful. Nailing a downshift from 4th to 3rd before you pour the car into a long sweeping corner and then feed in the power again and change into 4th and 5th at full revs is life affirming stuff.

If I am honest with myself, each time I drive the GT3 it's like a roller-coaster ride. By that I mean it's a thrill that is defined and contained within certain parameters. The car can handle anything I throw at it. I am looking for a different challenge now, a different experience and I think going back to an air cooled 911 will give me a different challenge at lower speeds. I may be wrong but life is all about experiences right?

I have to remind myself that my car is 11 years old and since then the GT3 has got faster and faster, lord knows how fast the new ones go! How the owners can have fun on the road without scaring themselves silly at the speeds attained I don't know.

If I can build a 993 to be engaging, fun to drive, exploitable and have great steering all at lower speeds then I will have succeeded.

Would still love a 911R though

[Slippydiff]

I’ve never been convinced a C4 964/993 will give the full on aircooled 911effect.
That’s not to say they’re bad cars, far from it, but the front diff, driveshafts etc and power being fed through the front wheels, removes some of the tactility (and adds some stability that some may appreciate) that defines the lightly laden front end of the 2 wheel drive cars.

[v8ksn]

Slippydiff said:

I’ve never been convinced a C4 964/993 will give the full on aircooled 911effect.
That’s not to say they’re bad cars, far from it, but the front diff, driveshafts etc and power being fed through the front wheels, removes some of the tactility (and adds some stability that some may appreciate) that defines the lightly laden front end of the 2 wheel drive cars.

I've heard conflicting reports, some say you can't tell the difference between C2 and C4 and others that say the C4 loses the 'front end bob' that is the main characteristic of an air cooled 911.

[Slippydiff]

v8ksn said:

Thank you for your open and honest post.

I love my GT3 and I have had some truly amazing and memorable drives in it. The sound it makes at full chat and the speed it can carry into corners is fantastic but I am beginning to feel that it's not how fast you can go, but how you go fast.

Recently I started a thread called Big Numbers and these big numbers the car can achieve worry me. There is still fun to be had driving the car at less than 10/10ths but the very nature of the car goads you into hooligan behaviour. The car wants you to behave badly, it wants you to drive at truly antisocial speeds and the rewards when you give in are plentiful. Nailing a downshift from 4th to 3rd before you pour the car into a long sweeping corner and then feed in the power again and change into 4th and 5th at full revs is life affirming stuff.

If I am honest with myself, each time I drive the GT3 it's like a roller-coaster ride. By that I mean it's a thrill that is defined and contained within certain parameters. The car can handle anything I throw at it. I am looking for a different challenge now, a different experience and I think going back to an air cooled 911 will give me a different challenge at lower speeds. I may be wrong but life is all about experiences right?

I have to remind myself that my car is 11 years old and since then the GT3 has got faster and faster, lord knows how fast the new ones go! How the owners can have fun on the road without scaring themselves silly at the speeds attained I don't know.

If I can build a 993 to be engaging, fun to drive, exploitable and have great steering all at lower speeds then I will have succeeded.

Would still love a 911R though

I reached the same conclusion you’ve come to with regards to the speed the 997 GT3 is capable of in the road very quickly.
A trip in my first car across the Cotswolds on New Year’s Day 2008 left me hugely impressed, but also somewhat concerned. I sold the car.
I revisited the Gen 1 997 GT3 4 years later.
A trip from Worcestershire over to Top555 at Rutland to view a 1M Coupe one quiet Saturday afternoon on some epic roads, saw the realisation dawn that the speeds I was regularly attaining weren’t socially acceptable (or if I’m totally honest, fun) I once again sold the car.

Fast forward to last Spring, and I thought I’d try ownership of the much heralded Cayman R.
The CR is an amazing little car, and along twisty A/B roads its finely balanced chassis gives little or nothing to a Gen 1 997 GT3 (I speak from experience) sure the extra 70-80hp from the wonderful Mezger engine allows it to pull ahead along a decent length straight, but around the twisties, it would take a talented 997 GT3 pilot to outpace a well driven Cayman.

But for all it’s abilities, there was a downside to CR ownership, the car was too balanced, too polished and ultimately too “easy”, both to drive and extract speed from.
With the Cayman’s brakes refreshed and the geo set up properly, I found myself driving it at speeds very similar to those I’d experienced in the 997 GT3 some years previously.
But it was only at those speeds that the chassis came alive and the car felt really fun to drive.
That’s fine if ultimate speed from A to B is your metric AND you’re happy driving around at close to twice the speed limit for our A roads. Neither are what floats my boat.

I think the 964 being slightly more agricultural (and a lot of that is down to the cruder rear suspension) than the 993, and that gives the impression of speed better than the later car, ie you’ll feel you’re going faster than you are, at lower speeds.

I wouldn’t have any reservations about going from a 997 GT3 to a C2 964/993, as long as you embrace the aircooled car’s foibles/eccentricities, you’ll fall for and be smitten by their charms.