Cars not selling?

[stuckmojo]

PeterS67 said:

I think the question “Why” is valid - it’s a personal thing and in the cold light of day it is fairly ludicrous process that I’ve been through and indeed the costs involved have been considerable, but, and it’s a big but, what happens if I elevate myself to a senior position in the batting league. When I picked up my C2 GTS in March, there was a fairly amazing GT2 RS waiting behind it. What was the car worth? £220 all in and yet resale was £450k + the day after. What about the GT3 RS that non WP cost £150 and retails back out for £220-250k? The same is true with the forthcoming Spyder and GT4, albeit not to the same rate


Peter

From the above bit it seems that the ultimate goal is potential returns on a car not yet for sale in an uncertain market. I am a risk taker but I would not go through the hassle of dealing with an OPC for 10+ unwanted cars and lining their pockets unless you have some kind of certainty the returns will be there.

In all fairness the above doesn't read at all like a car enthusiast's perspective on this but more a speculator's.

[PeterS67]

Just to clarify. I picked the last GT3 up in late May/June. With the use of several other cars and theoretically this being the special car, I still racked up around 1000 miles per month in the vehicle including a European trip. I do drive my cars, but lately, fuelled by the speculation on here, I realised that these vehicles are mileage sensitive. The white manual GT3 was a brilliant piece of machinery, and, yes I may be guilty of having a habit of swapping my cars regularly, but the point remains that my car is probably one of the highest mileage GT3’s on the forecourt today. Keeping it for another 12 months would see it at 15k+, and that’s at a point where resale takes a dive.

On reflection, I suspect many of you are right; it's a potentially fruitless pursuit of a halo model. I’m not above second positioning myself and reconsidering my current path. Many of you have way greater experience of Porsche purchasing than me and I only intended to relate my story for context.

Time will tell, and if I’ve come across as a little crass, then I apologise.

Edited by PeterS67 on Thursday 11th October 18:01

[isaldiri]

PeterS67 said:

On reflection, I suspect many of you are right; it's a potentially fruitless pursuit of a halo model. I’m not above second positioning myself and reconsidering my current path. Many of you have way greater experience of Porsche purchasing than me and I only intended to relate my story for context.

Time will tell, and if I’ve come across as a little crass, then I apologise.

I think you've been given a bit of a hard time tbh by some. Your reason per above as to 'why' earlier about possibly not being here tomorrow is as good as any other reason. If it works for you (and at least you've been far more honest about what the process needed to try to get a rare car than some others here would ever admit to) that's good enough and nevermind what others think.

[v8ksn]

PeterS67 said:

Time will tell, and if I’ve come across as a little crass, then I apologise.

Edited by PeterS67 on Thursday 11th October 18:01

No need to apologise at all. It's good to have an honest discussion on this forum for a change.

Enjoy your cars in good health

[pete.g]

v8ksn said:

PeterS67 said:

Time will tell, and if I’ve come across as a little crass, then I apologise.

Edited by PeterS67 on Thursday 11th October 18:01

No need to apologise at all. It's good to have an honest discussion on this forum for a change.

Enjoy your cars in good health

You did ask if it seemed mad!


It's your money and you can do as you please. I wouldn't play the game myself, but that's because I'm Northern Irish and we're pretty tight with our cash!

[av185]

Cheburator mk2 said:

My sales contact in a German OPC who flatly laughed in my face when I asked for a new LHD 991.2 GT3 last year, now tells me I have a choice of several at list.

Where do you think the UK market will go next? Up?!

Possibly.

Depends what happens with Brexit etc.

Porsche are very seasonal price wise and next Spring could well be the watershed.

The UK car market is unique don't forget and totally different to other parts of Europe.

[nw942]

I hope that you have done enough to secure the RS next year.

But where do you go from there?

To stay at the GT3 RS 'level' you will have to buy 3-4 (maybe more) cars a year from now on, handing each one back at list to the dealer.

But what do you have to do to advance to the next level such as a GT2 RS. IIRC that are 120 GT2 RS so is that about 3 per dealer. You'd had to have been a very big fish in your OPC's pond to secure one of those.

[odl21]

this is all very amusing. in my dealer if you want a GT3 RS, you go and order one. want a speedster? just ask for an allocation. pre ordering never needs a deposit up front. i'm number 11 on the list nationally for a mission E. zero deposit.

its especially amusing as you end up with a RHD car that is only saleable in brexit britain.....

[stuckmojo]

odl21 said:

this is all very amusing. in my dealer if you want a GT3 RS, you go and order one. want a speedster? just ask for an allocation. pre ordering never needs a deposit up front. i'm number 11 on the list nationally for a mission E. zero deposit.

its especially amusing as you end up with a RHD car that is only saleable in brexit britain.....

I had to check location. Is it just in Britain that one has to play these cretinous and expensive games with a dealer to hope to be able to drop six figures on a mass produced car?

The salesman at my local OPC tried to explain the process to a simpleton like me with a Rolex analogy - you can't just walk into Goldsmith and order a Pepsi Submariner, apparently. Which is strange as I bought mine walking into a shop just like that.

Come to think of it, maybe a LHD car might actually make sense - My daily driver is LHD and i have zero issues with it (I don't really go to drive throughs

[AndrewD]

odl21 said:

this is all very amusing. in my dealer if you want a GT3 RS, you go and order one. want a speedster? just ask for an allocation. pre ordering never needs a deposit up front. i'm number 11 on the list nationally for a mission E. zero deposit.

its especially amusing as you end up with a RHD car that is only saleable in brexit britain.....

I bought my 997 GT3 off the forecourt at Porsche Zug/Cham for a discount.

[Harris_I]

stuckmojo said:

Come to think of it, maybe a LHD car might actually make sense - My daily driver is LHD and i have zero issues with it (I don't really go to drive throughs

Same here. When the time comes for me to convert my hankering for a GT3 Touring into reality, I will probably jump across the Channel and drive one back. I won't be a doormat for OPCs.

Either that or roll on the Great Recession II. Shanghai Composite lost 5% yesterday! <Rubs hands in glee but feels guilty for doing so>

[IMI A]

Cheib said:

Cant remember if itvwas this thread or another but lots of people got quite excited when this 993 4S was listed a couple of weeks ago http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1054/9934S...

People thought it would sell quickly and it hasnt.

Conversely JZM moved a sensibly priced PTS 991.1 GT3 RS inside a week for around £180k based on where it was listed.

911 Virgin C4S sold.

94k GBP - selling a 60k mile C4S for that sort of money in a sticky market within a month or so is amazing. Beautiful car.

[v8ksn]

That car is gorgeous, it was inevitable it would sell. Beautiful beautiful car

Lost of run-of-the-mill cars still out there though and sellers have no desire to adjust their prices either. I can't see many cars shifting before next year.

[Johnniem]

PeterS67 said:

Just to clarify. I picked the last GT3 up in late May/June. With the use of several other cars and theoretically this being the special car, I still racked up around 1000 miles per month in the vehicle including a European trip. I do drive my cars, but lately, fuelled by the speculation on here, I realised that these vehicles are mileage sensitive. The white manual GT3 was a brilliant piece of machinery, and, yes I may be guilty of having a habit of swapping my cars regularly, but the point remains that my car is probably one of the highest mileage GT3’s on the forecourt today. Keeping it for another 12 months would see it at 15k+, and that’s at a point where resale takes a dive.

On reflection, I suspect many of you are right; it's a potentially fruitless pursuit of a halo model. I’m not above second positioning myself and reconsidering my current path. Many of you have way greater experience of Porsche purchasing than me and I only intended to relate my story for context.

Time will tell, and if I’ve come across as a little crass, then I apologise.

Edited by PeterS67 on Thursday 11th October 18:01

You do just as you wish Peter. After all, it's your hard-earned! How you manage your search for the 'halo model' is entirely your decision but what is important in all this is that the cars you buy are driven. Spunking so much money searching for the 'halo model' is a bit odd to most of us since the car you currently have is surely all an everyday driver, with reasonable road skills, could possibly handle - and more!

I take a week in Europe every year with like minded pals and there are a range of cars. Many TVR's of various models, a V12 Aston, an Ultima and me at the back in a Porsche Cayman S (987.2). With every trip I am reminded how incredibly capable that car is. Because of it's balance it is often all over the back of the Aston, especially in the mountains. It really is just an incredibly capable car, and rather nicely irons out any deficiencies in skills that I have when behind the wheel. I am, in no way, suggesting that it is better than the Aston but it is in certain circumstances. All that said, how much better is your current GT3 than the Cayman? Infinitely better, in all departments, is the answer.

What I am struggling with is being able to think of what more you are going to get out of the latest 'halo model' that you aren't getting now? At what point, after achieving your automotive nirvana, will the next 'halo model' be announced and the process starts all over again? If you are able to afford all this faffing about then that is great but my view is that is all it is; is faffing about, and it doesn't really get you much further forward, except in bragging rights. However, if you want a fast car, have someone build an Ultima for you. Choose the LS7 engine.

Finally, why worry about losing money over increasing the mileage when you are spending a vast amount of money unnecessarily on, what is essentially, a whim, just in case you may get nearer the top of the list for that life enhancing, dream car?

I wish you all the best in your search for 'the right one' but you may already have it in your garage.

[PeterS67]

@johnniem Cheers for that. As i have said its a path I'm following and it is quite possibly flawed - well ok, it is flawed!

I have a Cayman S at the moment, and truth be told its a great car. Its more accessible everyday and its boundaries are easily felt. Weirdly, if the new GT4 or Spyder are as capable as the last, i have a strange feeling that i may have achieved a peak that i am happy with. Yes its cost money to get there, but at least i sit at number three in the dealers list for purchasing, and that is their defined criteria for allocation.

The GT3 languishes in the garage at the moment and thats a shame, but come the weekend or dry days, its out to be enjoyed. The only issue i have with it is that the PDK seems to rob some of the old-school charm of the last one i owned.

[NewNameNeeded]

Johnniem said:

What I am struggling with is being able to think of what more you are going to get out of the latest 'halo model' that you aren't getting now? At what point, after achieving your automotive nirvana, will the next 'halo model' be announced and the process starts all over again?

Interesting points. For starters I'd disagree the GT3 is infinitely better than the Cayman. It will do things a Cayman absolutely cannot, if you focus on very specific requirements. Maybe it's a bit faster around a circuit if both were driven at their limit. But in general terms it's surely only incrementally better in many ways, not infinitely.

I think if you're forever chasing the halo product you would ultimately end up dissatisfied and disappointed because it's a journey with no end. I admire Peter's commitment to a cause, but for me I'd worry it can never end with true satisfaction because the model you can buy and drive today is already behind what is being developed for tomorrow. Technology advances, enhancements, lessons learned ... all result in improvements on what is available today.

Of course some advancements, e.g. a move to EV when you absolutely must have a petrol engine do provide some definitive models with nothing that follows, but even then I think you'll find a pull towards the latest and greatest.

[IMI A]

Black 993 at RPM I flagged earlier sold a few weeks ago.

Also this lovely 964 C2 (RS Evocation) went up for sale yesterday at 911V for what I think is a fair price (actually looks cheap considering the level of upgrades and price of a good RHD RS) for a good condition sorted 964 C2 in very desirable spec. A few months ago would have probably made £80k +



Sportsmen bet she's sold in 24 hours and cars not original paint or colour etc

[n12maser]

mint green is the absolutely best colour on a 964 imo

[Porsche911R]

IMI A said:

Black 993 at RPM I flagged earlier sold a few weeks ago.

Also this lovely 964 C2 (RS Evocation) went up for sale yesterday at 911V for what I think is a fair price (actually looks cheap considering the level of upgrades and price of a good RHD RS) for a good condition sorted 964 C2 in very desirable spec. A few months ago would have probably made £80k +


Sportsmen bet she's sold in 24 hours and cars not original paint or colour etc

was that not a lot cheaper when it was for sale at JZM and still took 8 months to sell, new owners not had it long which is odd.

[IMI A]

Porsche911R said:

IMI A said:

Black 993 at RPM I flagged earlier sold a few weeks ago.

Also this lovely 964 C2 (RS Evocation) went up for sale yesterday at 911V for what I think is a fair price (actually looks cheap considering the level of upgrades and price of a good RHD RS) for a good condition sorted 964 C2 in very desirable spec. A few months ago would have probably made £80k +


Sportsmen bet she's sold in 24 hours and cars not original paint or colour etc

was that not a lot cheaper when it was for sale at JZM and still took 8 months to sell, new owners not had it long which is odd.

Nope was £79,995 there. Had look at the car when it was at JZM but had 3.2 Carrera then 964 C2 and wanted to try a sharpened up 993 C2. Sorry hadn't realised JZM managed t sell her when i saw her as I thought she didn't sell. It will be gone by end of the day guaranteed.

Edited by IMI A on Friday 30th November 13:36