Cars not selling?
Discussion
v8ksn said:
Exactly! Can't drive it for fear of the 'value' dropping. Ironically the 993 benefits from being driven often too.
I think that whatever car I get I will have to spend at least £10 to £15k on it
Not necessarily. Think there was a grey one on AT that sold recently for around the 50 mark and that was sorted according to the list of work undertaken in the description. I reckon £50k is the value of a 100k sorted 993.I think that whatever car I get I will have to spend at least £10 to £15k on it
v8ksn said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Exactly! Can't drive it for fear of the 'value' dropping. Ironically the 993 benefits from being driven often too. I think that whatever car I get I will have to spend at least £10 to £15k on it
Out of interest once you have spent the necessary to get a car in the condition you want, what do you think is a fair value these days for a 993 manual Coupe?
Edited by C4ME on Friday 5th October 20:10
C4ME said:
Out of interest once you have spent the necessary to get a car in the condition you want, what do you think is a fair value these days for a 993 manual Coupe?
It's very hard to judge what is a fair price in the current market. Some of the ultra low mileage cars need more spending on them than the high mileage ones in my experience.It really depends if you plan to drive it.
These cars cost a fair amount to run and keep in top condition, so a £30-40k car with a few big jobs starts adding up.
When the spend gets much more you start to compete with newer cars which cost less to run and deliver more performance wise.
We were all much better off with 3.2's at £16k, 964's at £20k and 993's at £25k.
More to spend on upkeep, no reason not to drive them and smaller cost to change.
These cars cost a fair amount to run and keep in top condition, so a £30-40k car with a few big jobs starts adding up.
When the spend gets much more you start to compete with newer cars which cost less to run and deliver more performance wise.
We were all much better off with 3.2's at £16k, 964's at £20k and 993's at £25k.
More to spend on upkeep, no reason not to drive them and smaller cost to change.
Yes a lot of newer cars will be better handling.more comfortable.faster.more economical etc etc etc BUT They aint an air cooled 911 and we all know there is something magical about them!
It must be murder trying to buy one just now with prices all over the place. The cheapest I have seen is £36k for a cat C with 99000miles and of course it's as new but it's still a cat C which would be best to avoid as there are plenty not on the register!
It must be murder trying to buy one just now with prices all over the place. The cheapest I have seen is £36k for a cat C with 99000miles and of course it's as new but it's still a cat C which would be best to avoid as there are plenty not on the register!
Cant remember if itvwas this thread or another but lots of people got quite excited when this 993 4S was listed a couple of weeks ago http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1054/9934S...
People thought it would sell quickly and it hasnt.
Conversely JZM moved a sensibly priced PTS 991.1 GT3 RS inside a week for around £180k based on where it was listed.
People thought it would sell quickly and it hasnt.
Conversely JZM moved a sensibly priced PTS 991.1 GT3 RS inside a week for around £180k based on where it was listed.
Cheib said:
Cant remember if itvwas this thread or another but lots of people got quite excited when this 993 4S was listed a couple of weeks ago http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1054/9934S...
People thought it would sell quickly and it hasnt.
Conversely JZM moved a sensibly priced PTS 991.1 GT3 RS inside a week for around £180k based on where it was listed.
Yeah, that car was linked to earlier in this thread. I thought it would have sold by now too but it seems like it's hanging around. Could be the time of year or it could be cold feet.People thought it would sell quickly and it hasnt.
Conversely JZM moved a sensibly priced PTS 991.1 GT3 RS inside a week for around £180k based on where it was listed.
12 months ago (less?) this would have been sold in a couple of weeks.
Anyway, there is no point buying now as winter is round the corner and prices always drop when the weather turns cold.
Edited by v8ksn on Friday 5th October 22:31
stichill99 said:
Which winter exactly did prices drop when it got cold? Certainly none in the last 5!
Good point but buying now will do me no favours as the car will not get that much use from November till March for various reasons. The only risk to me is the prices might rise....it's a low risk in my opinion.
v8ksn said:
stichill99 said:
Which winter exactly did prices drop when it got cold? Certainly none in the last 5!
Good point but buying now will do me no favours as the car will not get that much use from November till March for various reasons. The only risk to me is the prices might rise....it's a low risk in my opinion.
Cheib said:
Cant remember if itvwas this thread or another but lots of people got quite excited when this 993 4S was listed a couple of weeks ago http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1054/9934S...
People thought it would sell quickly and it hasnt.
Conversely JZM moved a sensibly priced PTS 991.1 GT3 RS inside a week for around £180k based on where it was listed.
Think the 993 has an offer from abroad at the moment. It's gorgeous in the flesh! tbh most of 911V stock seem to be good examples of each model. People thought it would sell quickly and it hasnt.
Conversely JZM moved a sensibly priced PTS 991.1 GT3 RS inside a week for around £180k based on where it was listed.
I went to OPC Newcastle yesterday - or rather, to the office block they're occupying as the showroom has a refurb - and sat down with a salesman with a very simple question:
- I want to place a deposit/order on the next gen GT3, in manual, Touring spec, as I've seen these being tested. Being a few years off I naively thought there would be time to access the order book.
His answer was: "how many cars have you had off us"? "None", says I. I always service my car there but that's it.
At that point he goes on to explaining that unless you've bought at least 10 new cars from them there's no chance of ordering one. I guess you all knew this but that's another thing to hear it word for word.
We then discuss a "new" (but not really) blue GT3 manual they have outside. Great car, but not for me at £40k overs and not in that colour. Same story for another one we look at online. This one is interesting: white, with 7k miles or so and priced at around £150k. Perfect spec, really. He notices they'd originally sold the car - but now it's at another OPC - and tells me that the bloke who sold it to someone other than back to them won't ever get "a car" - meaning a GT car - from them. So, It's either you pay overs or buy cars you don't want and have to sell these back to the OPC so that they can make money twice on you. Nice.
It would be nice if Porsche made as many GTs as they could sell - what's the on-cost from a C4s? - surely profit margins per vehicle are about the same as 80% of the car is the same?.
I am not interested in any car Porsche makes today other than the GT ones. I would like a 991T-type car with a naturally aspirated engine, but they don't make one.
I guess I'll just wait until I see value in a second hand car. Strange way for a brand to alienate enthusiasts though.
- I want to place a deposit/order on the next gen GT3, in manual, Touring spec, as I've seen these being tested. Being a few years off I naively thought there would be time to access the order book.
His answer was: "how many cars have you had off us"? "None", says I. I always service my car there but that's it.
At that point he goes on to explaining that unless you've bought at least 10 new cars from them there's no chance of ordering one. I guess you all knew this but that's another thing to hear it word for word.
We then discuss a "new" (but not really) blue GT3 manual they have outside. Great car, but not for me at £40k overs and not in that colour. Same story for another one we look at online. This one is interesting: white, with 7k miles or so and priced at around £150k. Perfect spec, really. He notices they'd originally sold the car - but now it's at another OPC - and tells me that the bloke who sold it to someone other than back to them won't ever get "a car" - meaning a GT car - from them. So, It's either you pay overs or buy cars you don't want and have to sell these back to the OPC so that they can make money twice on you. Nice.
It would be nice if Porsche made as many GTs as they could sell - what's the on-cost from a C4s? - surely profit margins per vehicle are about the same as 80% of the car is the same?.
I am not interested in any car Porsche makes today other than the GT ones. I would like a 991T-type car with a naturally aspirated engine, but they don't make one.
I guess I'll just wait until I see value in a second hand car. Strange way for a brand to alienate enthusiasts though.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's still an unsustainable cycle. The cars are obviously good, so they should live/die on their own merit. Possibly profit margins are thin due to how many they make? Make more or charge more with no bulls
t overs process. Let the OPCs have 10k extra on any car and be done with it. Maybe they could appease the collectors with limited editions of average cars like the Sport Classic and cover that too.
stuckmojo said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's still an unsustainable cycle. The cars are obviously good, so they should live/die on their own merit. Possibly profit margins are thin due to how many they make? Make more or charge more with no bullst overs process. Let the OPCs have 10k extra on any car and be done with it. Maybe they could appease the collectors with limited editions of average cars like the Sport Classic and cover that too.
MartinRS2K said:
Or they could price the GT3 correctly at £140-£150k (current RRP is £112k) and this in turn will probably reduce the demand and allow Porsche to make the margin they want and probably reduce the flipper market. Pricing at closer to McLaren 570S price levels will give buyers more to think about and the possibility of depreciation will sort out the speculators from the enthusiasts.
Agreed. But I also get that at the moment it's a win-win for the UK dealer network as they either:
- sell a car at overs and make £40/60/70 grand in one go
- sell a car at list to a serial buyer from whom they've already made £***k over 10 or plus cars
- sell a car at list to a special customer with GT part exchange and make big dosh twice in the process.
great from the dealers' perspective, not so great for Porsche as a business as they're leaving money on the table and pissing off part of their potential customer base.
In any case, I guess this is advanced marketing but it's going to be hard to nurture a new generation of buyers with this mentality.
MartinRS2K said:
Or they could price the GT3 correctly at £140-£150k (current RRP is £112k) and this in turn will probably reduce the demand and allow Porsche to make the margin they want and probably reduce the flipper market. Pricing at closer to McLaren 570S price levels will give buyers more to think about and the possibility of depreciation will sort out the speculators from the enthusiasts.
Received this from McLaren the other day. Effective £40k discount on a 'new' good spec 570GT. It may look like a good deal but these cars imo are overpriced anyway so huge depreciation will continue even at the lower price. Better to pay overs for a non depreciating 2 GT3 which imo is a better package anyway: 
MartinRS2K said:
stuckmojo said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's still an unsustainable cycle. The cars are obviously good, so they should live/die on their own merit. Possibly profit margins are thin due to how many they make? Make more or charge more with no bullst overs process. Let the OPCs have 10k extra on any car and be done with it. Maybe they could appease the collectors with limited editions of average cars like the Sport Classic and cover that too.
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