Cars not selling?
Discussion
Some people don’t like catD, plain and simple.
I haven’t seen the pics of it pre repair, so I wouldn’t know but for me, a once bent GT3 does have its appeals as a track car. I don’t really want to go spanking “an investment” around the track.
As Craig’s is proving, they are a tough sell however should you ever need to move it on.
I haven’t seen the pics of it pre repair, so I wouldn’t know but for me, a once bent GT3 does have its appeals as a track car. I don’t really want to go spanking “an investment” around the track.
As Craig’s is proving, they are a tough sell however should you ever need to move it on.
m88ony said:
Definitely cheaper to buy overs.
Interesting story about the white GT 3. An ideal spec car (for me).Given how OPCs behave I'd rather pay overs, and not buy from them at all. The bad taste I got from this exchange made me decide the 996 will now be serviced by an indie. I know, peanuts, but it goes to show.
I think the question “Why” is valid - it’s a personal thing and in the cold light of day it is fairly ludicrous process that I’ve been through and indeed the costs involved have been considerable, but, and it’s a big but, what happens if I elevate myself to a senior position in the batting league. When I picked up my C2 GTS in March, there was a fairly amazing GT2 RS waiting behind it. What was the car worth? £220 all in and yet resale was £450k + the day after. What about the GT3 RS that non WP cost £150 and retails back out for £220-250k? The same is true with the forthcoming Spyder and GT4, albeit not to the same rate
The point is, that, unless someone can prove beyond doubt, that dealing with OPC’s is a fairly grim affair and to be ‘entitled’ to the Halo models, one has to suffer some financial pain. Yep, paying overs gives you access to the car you desire and a reduced depreciation curve (theoretically) But you are never going to make any form of return to offset your initial investments. You won’t, in my experience, guarantee an invite for the so called ‘Halo’ models, unless you have a solid purchasing history.
But the world also has an interesting slant in who makes the money. My new GT3 has an excellent spec. Club sport, PCCB’s and full PPF. I believe it cost the owner £139 + PPF (£3k?), so that £142 ish all in. They then run it for a few hundred miles and sell it back to my OPC for £169k 3 months ago. GT market takes a dive and they sell it to me for £155. Ok, so I won’t make money on it, but I suspect that there’s going to be little depreciation over the next 4-6 months before that goes to make way for a GT4/Spider/992 S. Both the Boxster and cayman were taken with ‘sufficient’ discount, to offer a healthy buy-back in a months time. Dealer gets two new registration for September and two saleable as-new vehicles to punt on to some deserving new owners, who will perceive a 10+% saving of a car with negligible mileage, as a fair price without having to wait for a new vehicle to arrive.
I don’t make the rules. I have a passion for Porsche and it’s all I ever promised myself after being taken out by family friends in the 80‘s in a new 924. The desire burned for 30+ years and now I’m riding that long overdue promise I made to myself.
I think the system is unfair, biased and frankly corrupt, but what else is one to do?
Ultimately these are just my observations that’s all. As a ‘petrolhead’ I’m here for the cars - it’s what drives (sic) me in life. It’s a passion and unfortunately a rather costly one at that.
Back to the original question - ‘why?’ - tomorrow I may not be here. Life has a way of throwing you curve balls, and if I don’t try now to achieve what I set out to do, I may as well pack up and go and take up golf.
It’s a funny old world...
Peter
The point is, that, unless someone can prove beyond doubt, that dealing with OPC’s is a fairly grim affair and to be ‘entitled’ to the Halo models, one has to suffer some financial pain. Yep, paying overs gives you access to the car you desire and a reduced depreciation curve (theoretically) But you are never going to make any form of return to offset your initial investments. You won’t, in my experience, guarantee an invite for the so called ‘Halo’ models, unless you have a solid purchasing history.
But the world also has an interesting slant in who makes the money. My new GT3 has an excellent spec. Club sport, PCCB’s and full PPF. I believe it cost the owner £139 + PPF (£3k?), so that £142 ish all in. They then run it for a few hundred miles and sell it back to my OPC for £169k 3 months ago. GT market takes a dive and they sell it to me for £155. Ok, so I won’t make money on it, but I suspect that there’s going to be little depreciation over the next 4-6 months before that goes to make way for a GT4/Spider/992 S. Both the Boxster and cayman were taken with ‘sufficient’ discount, to offer a healthy buy-back in a months time. Dealer gets two new registration for September and two saleable as-new vehicles to punt on to some deserving new owners, who will perceive a 10+% saving of a car with negligible mileage, as a fair price without having to wait for a new vehicle to arrive.
I don’t make the rules. I have a passion for Porsche and it’s all I ever promised myself after being taken out by family friends in the 80‘s in a new 924. The desire burned for 30+ years and now I’m riding that long overdue promise I made to myself.
I think the system is unfair, biased and frankly corrupt, but what else is one to do?
Ultimately these are just my observations that’s all. As a ‘petrolhead’ I’m here for the cars - it’s what drives (sic) me in life. It’s a passion and unfortunately a rather costly one at that.
Back to the original question - ‘why?’ - tomorrow I may not be here. Life has a way of throwing you curve balls, and if I don’t try now to achieve what I set out to do, I may as well pack up and go and take up golf.
It’s a funny old world...
Peter
PeterS67 said:
I think the question “Why” is valid - it’s a personal thing and in the cold light of day it is fairly ludicrous process that I’ve been through and indeed the costs involved have been considerable, but, and it’s a big but, what happens if I elevate myself to a senior position in the batting league. When I picked up my C2 GTS in March, there was a fairly amazing GT2 RS waiting behind it. What was the car worth? £220 all in and yet resale was £450k + the day after. What about the GT3 RS that non WP cost £150 and retails back out for £220-250k? The same is true with the forthcoming Spyder and GT4, albeit not to the same rate
And what happens after you flip that GT2/3 RS? You'll get blacklisted and be in a worse position than when you started.
PeterS67 said:
I think the question “Why” is valid - it’s a personal thing and in the cold light of day it is fairly ludicrous process that I’ve been through and indeed the costs involved have been considerable, but, and it’s a big but, what happens if I elevate myself to a senior position in the batting league. When I picked up my C2 GTS in March, there was a fairly amazing GT2 RS waiting behind it. What was the car worth? £220 all in and yet resale was £450k + the day after. What about the GT3 RS that non WP cost £150 and retails back out for £220-250k? The same is true with the forthcoming Spyder and GT4, albeit not to the same rate
The point is, that, unless someone can prove beyond doubt, that dealing with OPC’s is a fairly grim affair and to be ‘entitled’ to the Halo models, one has to suffer some financial pain. Yep, paying overs gives you access to the car you desire and a reduced depreciation curve (theoretically) But you are never going to make any form of return to offset your initial investments. You won’t, in my experience, guarantee an invite for the so called ‘Halo’ models, unless you have a solid purchasing history.
But the world also has an interesting slant in who makes the money. My new GT3 has an excellent spec. Club sport, PCCB’s and full PPF. I believe it cost the owner £139 + PPF (£3k?), so that £142 ish all in. They then run it for a few hundred miles and sell it back to my OPC for £169k 3 months ago. GT market takes a dive and they sell it to me for £155. Ok, so I won’t make money on it, but I suspect that there’s going to be little depreciation over the next 4-6 months before that goes to make way for a GT4/Spider/992 S. Both the Boxster and cayman were taken with ‘sufficient’ discount, to offer a healthy buy-back in a months time. Dealer gets two new registration for September and two saleable as-new vehicles to punt on to some deserving new owners, who will perceive a 10+% saving of a car with negligible mileage, as a fair price without having to wait for a new vehicle to arrive.
I don’t make the rules. I have a passion for Porsche and it’s all I ever promised myself after being taken out by family friends in the 80‘s in a new 924. The desire burned for 30+ years and now I’m riding that long overdue promise I made to myself.
I think the system is unfair, biased and frankly corrupt, but what else is one to do?
Ultimately these are just my observations that’s all. As a ‘petrolhead’ I’m here for the cars - it’s what drives (sic) me in life. It’s a passion and unfortunately a rather costly one at that.
Back to the original question - ‘why?’ - tomorrow I may not be here. Life has a way of throwing you curve balls, and if I don’t try now to achieve what I set out to do, I may as well pack up and go and take up golf.
It’s a funny old world...
Peter
Thats all fair enough and I (sort of) understand your reasons and life is short etc but what if you never get allocated the halo cars? What if the arse falls out of the market and all new GT products start to depreciate again? The point is, that, unless someone can prove beyond doubt, that dealing with OPC’s is a fairly grim affair and to be ‘entitled’ to the Halo models, one has to suffer some financial pain. Yep, paying overs gives you access to the car you desire and a reduced depreciation curve (theoretically) But you are never going to make any form of return to offset your initial investments. You won’t, in my experience, guarantee an invite for the so called ‘Halo’ models, unless you have a solid purchasing history.
But the world also has an interesting slant in who makes the money. My new GT3 has an excellent spec. Club sport, PCCB’s and full PPF. I believe it cost the owner £139 + PPF (£3k?), so that £142 ish all in. They then run it for a few hundred miles and sell it back to my OPC for £169k 3 months ago. GT market takes a dive and they sell it to me for £155. Ok, so I won’t make money on it, but I suspect that there’s going to be little depreciation over the next 4-6 months before that goes to make way for a GT4/Spider/992 S. Both the Boxster and cayman were taken with ‘sufficient’ discount, to offer a healthy buy-back in a months time. Dealer gets two new registration for September and two saleable as-new vehicles to punt on to some deserving new owners, who will perceive a 10+% saving of a car with negligible mileage, as a fair price without having to wait for a new vehicle to arrive.
I don’t make the rules. I have a passion for Porsche and it’s all I ever promised myself after being taken out by family friends in the 80‘s in a new 924. The desire burned for 30+ years and now I’m riding that long overdue promise I made to myself.
I think the system is unfair, biased and frankly corrupt, but what else is one to do?
Ultimately these are just my observations that’s all. As a ‘petrolhead’ I’m here for the cars - it’s what drives (sic) me in life. It’s a passion and unfortunately a rather costly one at that.
Back to the original question - ‘why?’ - tomorrow I may not be here. Life has a way of throwing you curve balls, and if I don’t try now to achieve what I set out to do, I may as well pack up and go and take up golf.
It’s a funny old world...
Peter
Call me the cynic, but are you sure your huge passion for Porsche as started in the 80s is not being overuled by an even bigger passion to:
a) have the newest shiny trinket that others don't have
b) make money from buying/selling cars
Otherwise surely you'd be more than happy with your GT3.
a) have the newest shiny trinket that others don't have
b) make money from buying/selling cars
Otherwise surely you'd be more than happy with your GT3.
That’s a fair point. I don’t have a crystal ball, so I cannot see what’s round the corner. I’m taking a risk; it’s served me fairly well in life so far, but I’m prepared to take a chance. Nothing ventured etc...
I find it disheartening that I see so many post from people on here ‘hoping’ to get an allocation for car x,y or z. It’s unfair, but a reality based on my limited exposure to Porsche and it’s dealer model, that to be on that list, you need to play the game. I’m just playing the game that’s all, and the outcome will be what it will.
No one, including me, believes that outcome will be guaranteed positive. If it doesnt work, so be it; I put my name in the hat and tried, that’s all.
Peter
I find it disheartening that I see so many post from people on here ‘hoping’ to get an allocation for car x,y or z. It’s unfair, but a reality based on my limited exposure to Porsche and it’s dealer model, that to be on that list, you need to play the game. I’m just playing the game that’s all, and the outcome will be what it will.
No one, including me, believes that outcome will be guaranteed positive. If it doesnt work, so be it; I put my name in the hat and tried, that’s all.
Peter
@n12maser
You’re entitled to be cynical, but without walking a footstep in my shoes, you’re never going to know are you.
Most of the point of this post was just to strip bare the reality of purchasing from Porsche. These are only my experiences and should be treated as one mans reality...nothing more should be inferred or surmised, if that makes sense?
You’re entitled to be cynical, but without walking a footstep in my shoes, you’re never going to know are you.
Most of the point of this post was just to strip bare the reality of purchasing from Porsche. These are only my experiences and should be treated as one mans reality...nothing more should be inferred or surmised, if that makes sense?
PeterS67 said:
Back to the original question - ‘why?’ - tomorrow I may not be here. Life has a way of throwing you curve balls, and if I don’t try now to achieve what I set out to do, I may as well pack up and go and take up golf.
How about taking up driving the gt3 that you already have and enjoying it?Isn’t that the whole reason for having one?
PeterS67 said:
That’s a fair point. I don’t have a crystal ball, so I cannot see what’s round the corner. I’m taking a risk; it’s served me fairly well in life so far, but I’m prepared to take a chance. Nothing ventured etc...
I find it disheartening that I see so many post from people on here ‘hoping’ to get an allocation for car x,y or z. It’s unfair, but a reality based on my limited exposure to Porsche and it’s dealer model, that to be on that list, you need to play the game. I’m just playing the game that’s all, and the outcome will be what it will.
No one, including me, believes that outcome will be guaranteed positive. If it doesnt work, so be it; I put my name in the hat and tried, that’s all.
Peter
Peter, the allocation system is unregulated and largely open to abuse at various levels. In essence, you could travel the path of buying several models and be 'pipped' at the post without warning, as your GT spot mysteriously disappears into the ether. I find it disheartening that I see so many post from people on here ‘hoping’ to get an allocation for car x,y or z. It’s unfair, but a reality based on my limited exposure to Porsche and it’s dealer model, that to be on that list, you need to play the game. I’m just playing the game that’s all, and the outcome will be what it will.
No one, including me, believes that outcome will be guaranteed positive. If it doesnt work, so be it; I put my name in the hat and tried, that’s all.
Peter
There are instances of several GT cars being allocated to the same person, within weeks of the other, which then appear proudly for sale at said OPC very shortly after.
Any number of apocryphal reasons can be given via the OPC, so unless you know them very well, your chosen path is a very financially dangerous one IMV. If you want a GT that badly, pay the overs, however we are entering Sub Prime territory now so caveat emptor.
Peter, why don't you take the GT car you have out into Europe with a few like-minded friends (or just on your own) and give it a good spanking.
Head on out to Andermatt and do all the passes like Grimsel, Nufenen, Petit St Bernard, Grand St Bernard etc etc and have an absolute blast.
You may find that the current car you have is all you will ever need.
I spent almost 6 years with my car doing just that and I loved every minute.
Head on out to Andermatt and do all the passes like Grimsel, Nufenen, Petit St Bernard, Grand St Bernard etc etc and have an absolute blast.
You may find that the current car you have is all you will ever need.
I spent almost 6 years with my car doing just that and I loved every minute.
That’s just nuts...
As LoH says the money “wasted” on cars not really wanted and needed buys you so much seat time in what already is an amazing car, rather than bragging rights and a membership to an “exclusive” club of dubious nature...
I really don’t get the idea of buying a GT3, doing 500 miles and then bailing out. I know it is on a different financial scale, but when I bought my brand new Z4MC from Lovetts back in 2007, within a month it had 4K miles, including a 4 day Ring trip and by YE 2007 it had 20k miles. Worth mentioning, that to me the £42k I paid for the Z4MC in 2007 probably would feel the same as what you paid for the GT3 now...
The sooner this whole charade comes crashing down, the better. And yes, I do own a GT3, which has doubled in value... Last but not least - trade bids in Germany for 991.1 RS are in the EUR120k for cars with more than 20k km. My sales contact in a German OPC who flatly laughed in my face when I asked for a new LHD 991.2 GT3 last year, now tells me I have a choice of several at list.
Where do you think the UK market will go next? Up?!
As LoH says the money “wasted” on cars not really wanted and needed buys you so much seat time in what already is an amazing car, rather than bragging rights and a membership to an “exclusive” club of dubious nature...
I really don’t get the idea of buying a GT3, doing 500 miles and then bailing out. I know it is on a different financial scale, but when I bought my brand new Z4MC from Lovetts back in 2007, within a month it had 4K miles, including a 4 day Ring trip and by YE 2007 it had 20k miles. Worth mentioning, that to me the £42k I paid for the Z4MC in 2007 probably would feel the same as what you paid for the GT3 now...
The sooner this whole charade comes crashing down, the better. And yes, I do own a GT3, which has doubled in value... Last but not least - trade bids in Germany for 991.1 RS are in the EUR120k for cars with more than 20k km. My sales contact in a German OPC who flatly laughed in my face when I asked for a new LHD 991.2 GT3 last year, now tells me I have a choice of several at list.
Where do you think the UK market will go next? Up?!
Cheburator mk2 said:
.... the money “wasted” on cars not really wanted and needed buys you so much seat time in what already is an amazing car
Or an ex-cup car, a lot of expert tuition/training and a lot of trackdays, PLUS a decent road car in your garage? Horses for courses though as already pointed out.
Is this not akin to buying a substantial number of lottery tickets in that the *probability* of winning then increases - but is not guaranteed. Flawed logic surely?
I'll let Mr Moose fill in the gaps in the para phrasing.
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