Air cooled delight.

[Yellow491]

Slippydiff said:

Cheib said:

RSVP911 said:

Googled 991 ST engine and cut and pasted the first thing I read - it made absolutely no sense to me whatsover

991 ST you say ?!

Well having done the R and T, I wouldn’t put it past the marketing dept at Stuttgart to re-invent the ST too ...

Ffs no no no no noooooooo,the r was bad enough,lwt heavy weight.The st would stand for special tool;)

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

Ffs no no no no noooooooo,the r was bad enough,lwt heavy weight.The st would stand for special tool;)

Only a matter of time Paul, only a matter of time ...

[Cheib]

Slippydiff said:

Cheib said:

RSVP911 said:

Googled 991 ST engine and cut and pasted the first thing I read - it made absolutely no sense to me whatsover

991 ST you say ?!

Well having done the R and T, I wouldn’t put it past the marketing dept at Stuttgart to re-invent the ST too ...

I’d say its almost nailed on. They’ll be saving 911 E for when it goes electric I assume....

[Robbo66]

Yellow491 said:

Slippydiff said:

Cheib said:

RSVP911 said:

Googled 991 ST engine and cut and pasted the first thing I read - it made absolutely no sense to me whatsover

991 ST you say ?!

Well having done the R and T, I wouldn’t put it past the marketing dept at Stuttgart to re-invent the ST too ...

Ffs no no no no noooooooo,the r was bad enough,lwt heavy weight.The st would stand for special tool;)

They couldn’t ....could they

Heart of The Beast...




Art of The Beast...

[RSVP911]

Robbo66 said:

Yellow491 said:

Slippydiff said:

Cheib said:

RSVP911 said:

Googled 991 ST engine and cut and pasted the first thing I read - it made absolutely no sense to me whatsover

991 ST you say ?!

Well having done the R and T, I wouldn’t put it past the marketing dept at Stuttgart to re-invent the ST too ...

Ffs no no no no noooooooo,the r was bad enough,lwt heavy weight.The st would stand for special tool;)

They couldn’t ....could they

Heart of The Beast...




Art of The Beast...

Hi chap - so explain what the difference is between that engine and a 2.7RS MFI ? Can you convert the 2.7 RS engine into something like that or even something like what’s in Olive ? If so, what would the difference be.

How does your 2.7 RS compare to Olive - how different do they feel ?

I’m not really trying to RSR hot rod my car, just give it more power on an improved suspension/handling set up ; the reason I really like “Olive” is it looks so understated, but is a very powerfully thing underneath - like a wolf in sheep’s clothing - that’s what I’m after .

If it’s doable who would I need to talk to ?

Any suggestions on a postcard

Cheers ,


R

Edited by RSVP911 on Monday 15th April 22:56

[Robbo66]

RSVP911 said:

Hi chap - so explain what the difference is between that engine and a 2.7RS MFI ? Can you convert the 2.7 RS engine into something like that or even something like what’s in Olive ? If so, what would the difference be.

How does your 2.7 RS compare to Olive - how different do they feel ?

I’m not really trying to RSR hot rod my car;, more give it more power on an improved suspension set up ; the reason I really like “Olive” is it looks understated, but is a very powerfully thing underneath - like a wolf in sheep’s clothing - that’s what I’m after .

If it’s doable who would I need to talk to ?

Any suggestions on a postcard

Cheers ,


R

That’s a billboard not a postcard. Prescott....see you there and bring a pencil.

[Slippydiff]

Robbo66 said:

RSVP911 said:

Hi chap - so explain what the difference is between that engine and a 2.7RS MFI ? Can you convert the 2.7 RS engine into something like that or even something like what’s in Olive ? If so, what would the difference be.

How does your 2.7 RS compare to Olive - how different do they feel ?

I’m not really trying to RSR hot rod my car;, more give it more power on an improved suspension set up ; the reason I really like “Olive” is it looks understated, but is a very powerfully thing underneath - like a wolf in sheep’s clothing - that’s what I’m after .

If it’s doable who would I need to talk to ?

Any suggestions on a postcard

Cheers ,


R

That’s a billboard not a postcard. Prescott....see you there and bring a pencil.

Luckily for you, I'll be there too Richard. I can explain things in laymans terms, so if you could familiarise yourself with the following : roundy wobbly bits that open the valves, cranky thing that converts up and down motion into roundy roundy motion. It'll be a breeze and a lot of fun too
And at no point will it be in any way shape or form patronising, no siree, most definitely not

[Yellow491]

Slippydiff said:

Robbo66 said:

RSVP911 said:

Hi chap - so explain what the difference is between that engine and a 2.7RS MFI ? Can you convert the 2.7 RS engine into something like that or even something like what’s in Olive ? If so, what would the difference be.

How does your 2.7 RS compare to Olive - how different do they feel ?

I’m not really trying to RSR hot rod my car;, more give it more power on an improved suspension set up ; the reason I really like “Olive” is it looks understated, but is a very powerfully thing underneath - like a wolf in sheep’s clothing - that’s what I’m after .

If it’s doable who would I need to talk to ?

Any suggestions on a postcard

Cheers ,


R

That’s a billboard not a postcard. Prescott....see you there and bring a pencil.

Luckily for you, I'll be there too Richard. I can explain things in laymans terms, so if you could familiarise yourself with the following : roundy wobbly bits that open the valves, cranky thing that converts up and down motion into roundy roundy motion. It'll be a breeze and a lot of fun too
And at no point will it be in any way shape or form patronising, no siree, most definitely not

Dont forget the sucky,blowy,pushy thing.

Its a slippery road rvp,you will also need a good diff

The ancillary kit on top of robbo engine will be eye watering for you,you could just put a set of high throttle bodies on,and fuel inject it,a ecu ,a good friend is doing it right now to hillclimb with us,will be a 250bhp and responsive with 964 cams,or as a lot of hotrodders do ,put a 964 or 993 engine in.
As we have some pics of some nice early cars,was a great early frosty run to wake the cotswolds up.

[RSVP911]

Thanks chaps, I knew if I persisted I’d get you to start talking my language

I’m in absolutely no hurry; my car has survived various comings and goings of other 911’s with ease and has proved it self to be the one car that I know I’m going to grow old with, hence me not caring too much about the impact fettling might have as its now officially a car that can evolve with me over time.

The weak link in this journey is me as I’m not really sure where to start or who the right people are to do this.

I just know that I want to end up with a car that balances out a little bit of daily comfort and use-ability but that’s also amazing dynamically ; it must handle beautifully and have enough grunt to feel very powerful and quick - oh and it would be nice if it sounds really soulful - not shouty loud but purposeful and mean.

So to conclude, I’m not looking for a hot rod track car - I love the purity of the way my car already looks - I guess I just want it to be a bit more agile, powerful and aural.

I think the best thing to do is for me to pop to Prescott and you could all talk to me like I’m a 5 year old and show me some cars / pictures that I can take away and colour in with my best crayons later - sorted

Edited to add : Yellow , I think we are both at the GT track day at Donington a few days before Prescott - if you get a spare 5 mins maybe you could do some intense tutoring and give me some tips so I can sound super geeky by the time I get to Prescott - just keep it to ourselves though

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 16th April 09:39

[larrylamb11]

RSVP911 said:

Thanks chaps, I knew if I persisted I’d get you to start talking my language

I’m in absolutely no hurry; my car has survived various comings and goings of other 911’s with ease and has proved it self to be the one car that I know I’m going to grow old with, hence me not caring too much about the impact fettling might have as its now officially a car that can evolve with me over time.

The weak link in this journey is me as I’m not really sure where to start or who the right people are to do this.

I just know that I want to end up with a car that balances out a little bit of daily comfort and use-ability but that’s also amazing dynamically ; it must handle beautifully and have enough grunt to feel very powerful and quick - oh and it would be nice if it sounds really soulful - not shouty loud but purposeful and mean.

So to conclude, I’m not looking for a hot rod track car - I love the purity of the way my car already looks - I guess I just want it to be a bit more agile, powerful and aural.

I think the best thing to do is for me to pop to Prescott and you could all talk to me like I’m a 5 year old and show me some cars / pictures that I can take away and colour in with my best crayons later - sorted

Edited to add : Yellow , I think we are both at the GT track day at Donington a few days before Prescott - if you get a spare 5 mins maybe you could do some intense tutoring and give me some tips so I can sound super geeky by the time I get to Prescott - just keep it to ourselves though

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 16th April 09:39

Having read the posts leading up to this, may I pitch in with some thoughts?
Personally I wouldn't be tempted to mess with an original RS motor. I'd start with a blank canvas and build to suit out of something of more plentiful and mundane origin, like a hopped up SC motor. Start with a stronger base too. If your RS motor isn't a matching number motor anyway, there's no need to keep it with the car and you might find you could sell it and raise enough with the proceeds to build the hi-po motor you are looking for - especially if the car your RS motor was taken from is still (or is back in) circulation. Use the evolution of the air-cooled motor through the ages to your advantage and get the benefit of those 20+ years of development over your RS motor.

[Wozy68]

All these posts and all this expenditure

All you need is a C2 993 manual with early sport seats .... non vario for the punch above 4K revs to remind you of earlier 911s, possibly with the LWF, RS steering wheel (purely because they are cool), the RS shifter and spend 10K which includes replacing dampers and springs (Koni FSDs and M033 ideal for our undulating roads) and every single suspension component. Get Gert to RSR the exhausts and Chris to set up your suspension.

Job done, 9/10ths on public roads and you can still commute to work in it and drive her to Italy and back without breaking a sweat..... and you can leave her parked outside the pub all night and sleep soundly.

I have one going cheap, I'll take all of yours towards the PX plus cash

Edited by Wozy68 on Tuesday 16th April 14:05

[gibbon]

If could you find the owner of the car the original RS motor came from I imagine they would be incredibly keen to get it back and may share the 'reward' of returning it with you, plus its always nice to reunite.

Then build a monster motor of your desire for your hotrod..

[hot66]

If you really want to chat through options on engines specs etc etc get on to ddk and ask away. Plenty of us lads with modded cars on there.

Is your 2.7RS motor a genuine one ( as in genuine rs engine no stampings ) or an RS spec motor ( not that they will differ performance wise , just £ wise they will )

I'd personally not do much more than possibly raise the CR ratio and fit a LW flywheel on an RS MFI motor . They are so sweet anyway. I have a 1973 2.4S that we've increased the C/R and twin plugged alonf with lwt flywheel. To be honest not a massive increase in hp ( up to around 220 ) but great fun once it comes on cam and just loves to rev. ( I wanted to keep the S character of it all being 5.5K upwards )

If its perforamnce / bhp you're after I wouldnt bother with 2.5 ST specs but got full on into 2.8 / 3.0 high revving RSR style MFI motors ( or carbs if you're on a budget.) Some of the nicest and fun motors in DDK have been short stroke 3.0 twin plugs

RSVP911 said:

Thanks chaps, I knew if I persisted I’d get you to start talking my language

I’m in absolutely no hurry; my car has survived various comings and goings of other 911’s with ease and has proved it self to be the one car that I know I’m going to grow old with, hence me not caring too much about the impact fettling might have as its now officially a car that can evolve with me over time.

The weak link in this journey is me as I’m not really sure where to start or who the right people are to do this.

I just know that I want to end up with a car that balances out a little bit of daily comfort and use-ability but that’s also amazing dynamically ; it must handle beautifully and have enough grunt to feel very powerful and quick - oh and it would be nice if it sounds really soulful - not shouty loud but purposeful and mean.

So to conclude, I’m not looking for a hot rod track car - I love the purity of the way my car already looks - I guess I just want it to be a bit more agile, powerful and aural.

I think the best thing to do is for me to pop to Prescott and you could all talk to me like I’m a 5 year old and show me some cars / pictures that I can take away and colour in with my best crayons later - sorted

Edited to add : Yellow , I think we are both at the GT track day at Donington a few days before Prescott - if you get a spare 5 mins maybe you could do some intense tutoring and give me some tips so I can sound super geeky by the time I get to Prescott - just keep it to ourselves though

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 16th April 09:39

[blackmamba]

If you are primarily looking for a road car / engine, then I would stick with the 2.7RS motor. If it has genuine RS cases (ie *663XXXX*) then definitely don’t mess with it.

Short stroke ST motors are great when on the boil all the time (eg on track) but you may prefer the RS motor for road use as the power delivery is more flexible. If you want to build a stronger motor, sell this one for good money and start from scratch using 3.0 cases.

Ideally drive some cars before committing to the spec to make sure you know it’s what you want (rather than what you think you want).

Nice problem to have.

[IMI A]

Wozy68 said:

All these posts and all this expenditure

All you need is a C2 993 manual with early sport seats .... non vario for the punch above 4K revs to remind you of earlier 911s, possibly with the LWF, RS steering wheel (purely because they are cool), the RS shifter and spend 10K which includes replacing dampers and springs (Koni FSDs and M033 ideal for our undulating roads) and every single suspension component. Get Gert to RSR the exhausts and Chris to set up your suspension.

Job done, 9/10ths on public roads and you can still commute to work in it and drive her to Italy and back without breaking a sweat..... and you can leave her parked outside the pub all night and sleep soundly.

I have one going cheap, I'll take all of yours towards the PX plus cash

Edited by Wozy68 on Tuesday 16th April 14:05

You know I was lucky enough to get hooked on air cooled 911 via first drive being a 72RS. Car was literally alive.

993 C2 fettled whilst not as raw (in a nice way) a very good shout. Need to try on Cup 2 tyre as only negative thing I can think of is they understeer far more than all their air cooled ancestors and water cooled later cars. Not an issue just a new learning experience which is lovely

[RSVP911]

Wozy68 said:

All these posts and all this expenditure

All you need is a C2 993 manual with early sport seats .... non vario for the punch above 4K revs to remind you of earlier 911s, possibly with the LWF, RS steering wheel (purely because they are cool), the RS shifter and spend 10K which includes replacing dampers and springs (Koni FSDs and M033 ideal for our undulating roads) and every single suspension component. Get Gert to RSR the exhausts and Chris to set up your suspension.

Job done, 9/10ths on public roads and you can still commute to work in it and drive her to Italy and back without breaking a sweat..... and you can leave her parked outside the pub all night and sleep soundly.

I have one going cheap, I'll take all of yours towards the PX plus cash

Edited by Wozy68 on Tuesday 16th April 14:05

That’s very nice of you - you’re a true gent - can I sleep on it ? I’ll let you know.

[RSVP911]

larrylamb11 said:

RSVP911 said:

Thanks chaps, I knew if I persisted I’d get you to start talking my language

I’m in absolutely no hurry; my car has survived various comings and goings of other 911’s with ease and has proved it self to be the one car that I know I’m going to grow old with, hence me not caring too much about the impact fettling might have as its now officially a car that can evolve with me over time.

The weak link in this journey is me as I’m not really sure where to start or who the right people are to do this.

I just know that I want to end up with a car that balances out a little bit of daily comfort and use-ability but that’s also amazing dynamically ; it must handle beautifully and have enough grunt to feel very powerful and quick - oh and it would be nice if it sounds really soulful - not shouty loud but purposeful and mean.

So to conclude, I’m not looking for a hot rod track car - I love the purity of the way my car already looks - I guess I just want it to be a bit more agile, powerful and aural.

I think the best thing to do is for me to pop to Prescott and you could all talk to me like I’m a 5 year old and show me some cars / pictures that I can take away and colour in with my best crayons later - sorted

Edited to add : Yellow , I think we are both at the GT track day at Donington a few days before Prescott - if you get a spare 5 mins maybe you could do some intense tutoring and give me some tips so I can sound super geeky by the time I get to Prescott - just keep it to ourselves though

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 16th April 09:39

Having read the posts leading up to this, may I pitch in with some thoughts?
Personally I wouldn't be tempted to mess with an original RS motor. I'd start with a blank canvas and build to suit out of something of more plentiful and mundane origin, like a hopped up SC motor. Start with a stronger base too. If your RS motor isn't a matching number motor anyway, there's no need to keep it with the car and you might find you could sell it and raise enough with the proceeds to build the hi-po motor you are looking for - especially if the car your RS motor was taken from is still (or is back in) circulation. Use the evolution of the air-cooled motor through the ages to your advantage and get the benefit of those 20+ years of development over your RS motor.

Pitch away - very nice of you to bother.

I think you may have a point about not messing with an original RS engine - doesn’t feel right on lots of levels, but also I wouldn’t want to split the car and engine apart (and I have no idea where the matching chassis and gearbox are)

That leaves me with CG improving the set up next week & then pausing for breath before deciding what to do next.

Your idea hadn’t crossed my mind though - it was a good one, so thanks for that

[RSVP911]

hot66 said:

If you really want to chat through options on engines specs etc etc get on to ddk and ask away. Plenty of us lads with modded cars on there.

Is your 2.7RS motor a genuine one ( as in genuine rs engine no stampings ) or an RS spec motor ( not that they will differ performance wise , just £ wise they will )

I'd personally not do much more than possibly raise the CR ratio and fit a LW flywheel on an RS MFI motor . They are so sweet anyway. I have a 1973 2.4S that we've increased the C/R and twin plugged alonf with lwt flywheel. To be honest not a massive increase in hp ( up to around 220 ) but great fun once it comes on cam and just loves to rev. ( I wanted to keep the S character of it all being 5.5K upwards )

If its perforamnce / bhp you're after I wouldnt bother with 2.5 ST specs but got full on into 2.8 / 3.0 high revving RSR style MFI motors ( or carbs if you're on a budget.) Some of the nicest and fun motors in DDK have been short stroke 3.0 twin plugs

RSVP911 said:

Thanks chaps, I knew if I persisted I’d get you to start talking my language

I’m in absolutely no hurry; my car has survived various comings and goings of other 911’s with ease and has proved it self to be the one car that I know I’m going to grow old with, hence me not caring too much about the impact fettling might have as its now officially a car that can evolve with me over time.

The weak link in this journey is me as I’m not really sure where to start or who the right people are to do this.

I just know that I want to end up with a car that balances out a little bit of daily comfort and use-ability but that’s also amazing dynamically ; it must handle beautifully and have enough grunt to feel very powerful and quick - oh and it would be nice if it sounds really soulful - not shouty loud but purposeful and mean.

So to conclude, I’m not looking for a hot rod track car - I love the purity of the way my car already looks - I guess I just want it to be a bit more agile, powerful and aural.

I think the best thing to do is for me to pop to Prescott and you could all talk to me like I’m a 5 year old and show me some cars / pictures that I can take away and colour in with my best crayons later - sorted

Edited to add : Yellow , I think we are both at the GT track day at Donington a few days before Prescott - if you get a spare 5 mins maybe you could do some intense tutoring and give me some tips so I can sound super geeky by the time I get to Prescott - just keep it to ourselves though

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 16th April 09:39

Thanks very much for your help : lots to take in there

[RSVP911]

blackmamba said:

make sure you know it’s what you want (rather than what you think you want).

Nice problem to have.

This is sage advice - thankyou

[Yellow491]

As said the 2.7rs engine is a sweet one,just add some lightness and grip.
If you want to run the engine number and type number by me i can check what car it came from if its the real deal.
Beware of many restamped motors any way,i dont know the history of it.
A 993 is no early car,great car but a very differant drive.
I guess its see you at prescott,as i would not want to spoil the fun of slippy and robbo trying to educate you