Air cooled delight.

[993rsr]

Robbo66 said:

993rsr said:

Gorgeous car, please post more pictures and the spec details

Sure, just let me finish waxing my beard.

Off a 72s shell, engine is based on a 3.0-litre flat-six, now 3.6, GT3 crankshaft, uprated conrods, pistons and barrels fed by high butterfly MFI. 1020kg wet.
340bhp to rears, twin plug dizzy, rebuilt 915 box, 6 pot front/4 pot rear upgraded brakes running on Pirelli D4 Corsa’s on 7x15 and 9x15 original Fuch.
Runs Exe-TC single adjust comp dampers, which for me, combined with the immense torque and pick up from 1800, make this the best blend of power and handling I’ve ever experienced in an early 911.
Olive was built as an evolution to Kermit , which is also a fantastic car. Kermit was running on different tyres and set up far softer than Olive when I tested.

In comparison, the yellow 72 ST is a massive handful, frantic acceleration from 4500, 250bhp from short stroke 2.5lt off higher G60 cams. 980kg and exact in engine, chassis and body specification to original car. Different all together to Olive, and a huge event to drive. So light, totally stripped out, with fibre glass front wings and hood.

Olive off to Alps in September for a week of sweaty palm thrashing with a few other beards who are similarly hooked on the 70’s cars.
Bit of Matt Munro, cracking crew, and Olive....perfect.

Stunning, love the spec of Olive and just the path I should have gone down, at the time obsessed with competing and the wide RSR, on reflection something like Olive would be perfect.

Love the sound of the ST, remember Yellow's one and the very ethos of lightweight!

[993rsr]

RSVP911 said:

993rsr said:

RSVP911 said:

Do you mind me asking ; what was the story re the car that didn’t work out - thanks

Sure, the body and chassis were done by a great guy in Germany, sadly he is no longer with us but a proper RSR rep nothing skimped on.

Things went wrong with the motor and gearbox which came from a ‘well respected’ US company who are Super at that Tec.

Put bluntly, the whole drivetrain which I paid for at great expense being assured of a 330bhp motor was a mess and they refused any recompense and basically it went from bad to worse.

It needed a lot of work to get it sorted which we did and got the FIA papers but the drivetrain was never what it should have been and I lost interest in the end, leaving a bitter taste after spending deep into 6 figures.

Doing it again I’d have a narrow body LHD car with a great motor from Tuthill few mod cons like good lights and AC to and not be so worried about FIA papers as it would be a car to enjoy and not compete in.

Hindsight etc

Edited by 993rsr on Thursday 18th April 22:58

Edited by 993rsr on Thursday 18th April 22:58

Thanks , sounds like a bit of a nightmare - I guess I imagine it’s not a simple & straightforward path to tread, which is why I’m so clueless about how to tackle this one.

I can empathise with your story; I had a great deal of “fun” importing and fully restoring a 964, 3.6 Turbo from NZ - financially it was like peeling an onion. Nothing wrong with the car & sold by a very genuine & super nice bloke, however when it arrived it turned out one of the cylinders heads was losing power - this hadn’t been picked up on the pre purchase inspection by Porsche in NZ & was by no means a “biggie”

Once the engine was out the self inflicted onion peeling started. It was a case of sod it, “if the engines out I may well do the top end as it’ll need doing at some point”. As is the way with these things, once you restore one thing the rest starts looks tired ; maybe the paint could do with a refresh ; sod it let’s do a bare metal, windows out, respray ; one thing leads to another and before you know it, I had a f**c it moment and decided to change the brief to ; let’s restore it back to a showroom perfect example . When finished, it was the most beautiful thing. So here’s the rub ; I never really enjoyed driving it, it was too heavy and GT like, a truly lovely thing, but not agile enough for my driving taste : held onto the car for about 6 months telling myself I’ll grow to love it - but the bond never formed and I finally gave up trying to love something I didn’t gel with & it was sold. I guess lust and love are two very different things

However, every time a see a photo of it I miss it : Got to say I did genuinely really enjoy the journey and I have no regrets.

Edited by RSVP911 on Friday 19th April 12:56

Totally self inflicted as these things usually are...

If I did it again I wouldn't bother about FIA papers as unless you are competing it makes no sense and compromises how good you can make the car for the street and the odd track day. For me something like Olive would fit the bill perfectly and something I plan on exploring when time allows next year.

Whilst building from scratch does mean you will inevitably be up for a right old rogering if you do sell, I'd plan on taking my time, getting it right, and having something that I adored so much and fitted my remit so perfectly I'd not part with it.

[RSVP911]

993rsr said:

RSVP911 said:

993rsr said:

RSVP911 said:

Do you mind me asking ; what was the story re the car that didn’t work out - thanks

Sure, the body and chassis were done by a great guy in Germany, sadly he is no longer with us but a proper RSR rep nothing skimped on.

Things went wrong with the motor and gearbox which came from a ‘well respected’ US company who are Super at that Tec.

Put bluntly, the whole drivetrain which I paid for at great expense being assured of a 330bhp motor was a mess and they refused any recompense and basically it went from bad to worse.

It needed a lot of work to get it sorted which we did and got the FIA papers but the drivetrain was never what it should have been and I lost interest in the end, leaving a bitter taste after spending deep into 6 figures.

Doing it again I’d have a narrow body LHD car with a great motor from Tuthill few mod cons like good lights and AC to and not be so worried about FIA papers as it would be a car to enjoy and not compete in.

Hindsight etc

Edited by 993rsr on Thursday 18th April 22:58

Edited by 993rsr on Thursday 18th April 22:58

Thanks , sounds like a bit of a nightmare - I guess I imagine it’s not a simple & straightforward path to tread, which is why I’m so clueless about how to tackle this one.

I can empathise with your story; I had a great deal of “fun” importing and fully restoring a 964, 3.6 Turbo from NZ - financially it was like peeling an onion. Nothing wrong with the car & sold by a very genuine & super nice bloke, however when it arrived it turned out one of the cylinders heads was losing power - this hadn’t been picked up on the pre purchase inspection by Porsche in NZ & was by no means a “biggie”

Once the engine was out the self inflicted onion peeling started. It was a case of sod it, “if the engines out I may well do the top end as it’ll need doing at some point”. As is the way with these things, once you restore one thing the rest starts looks tired ; maybe the paint could do with a refresh ; sod it let’s do a bare metal, windows out, respray ; one thing leads to another and before you know it, I had a f**c it moment and decided to change the brief to ; let’s restore it back to a showroom perfect example . When finished, it was the most beautiful thing. So here’s the rub ; I never really enjoyed driving it, it was too heavy and GT like, a truly lovely thing, but not agile enough for my driving taste : held onto the car for about 6 months telling myself I’ll grow to love it - but the bond never formed and I finally gave up trying to love something I didn’t gel with & it was sold. I guess lust and love are two very different things

However, every time a see a photo of it I miss it : Got to say I did genuinely really enjoy the journey and I have no regrets.

Edited by RSVP911 on Friday 19th April 12:56

Totally self inflicted as these things usually are...

If I did it again I wouldn't bother about FIA papers as unless you are competing it makes no sense and compromises how good you can make the car for the street and the odd track day. For me something like Olive would fit the bill perfectly and something I plan on exploring when time allows next year.

Whilst building from scratch does mean you will inevitably be up for a right old rogering if you do sell, I'd plan on taking my time, getting it right, and having something that I adored so much and fitted my remit so perfectly I'd not part with it.

Yep I think the only outcome that’s certain when doing this from scratch is the cost is massively disproportionate to the finished cars market value and as such the only way to do this is with full acceptance of this fact.

Edited to add : I guess that means buying one that’s already done has to be the way to go (assuming you know what to look for)

Edited by RSVP911 on Friday 19th April 17:03

[Taffy66]

Paul Stephens seem to make really nice custom 911 2.4S with either 240HP or 290HP..At least you know the full cost from the outset..

[993rsr]

Taffy66 said:

Paul Stephens seem to make really nice custom 911 2.4S with either 240HP or 290HP..At least you know the full cost from the outset..

With respect wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole.

Not in the same universe as something like Tuthill and seem very poor value for what they offer, or rather don’t;

https://www.tuthillporsche.com/bespoke-porsche-bui...

Edited by 993rsr on Friday 19th April 18:31

[Yellow491]

993rsr said:

the brainchild of a well-known historic driver and Porsche aficionado.

Yellow?

Just read the add jc,thats a great car,it required a rebuild after i hammered it ,won tour britania with a cool navigator in it,and i managed to park it under the back of a lightweight e type at the start of a race at snett,the e type stalled!

[993rsr]

Yellow491 said:

993rsr said:

the brainchild of a well-known historic driver and Porsche aficionado.

Yellow?

Just read the add jc,thats a great car,it required a rebuild after i hammered it ,won tour britania with a cool navigator in it,and i managed to park it under the back of a lightweight e type at the start of a race at snett,the e type stalled!

Bet it’s beaucoup de cabbage with your provenance:-)

Shame that rooker in the US messed us on the motors, was thinking about poor old Thomas the other day when I saw some pictures of it.

[Yellow491]

993rsr said:

Robbo66 said:

993rsr said:

Gorgeous car, please post more pictures and the spec details

Sure, just let me finish waxing my beard.

Off a 72s shell, engine is based on a 3.0-litre flat-six, now 3.6, GT3 crankshaft, uprated conrods, pistons and barrels fed by high butterfly MFI. 1020kg wet.
340bhp to rears, twin plug dizzy, rebuilt 915 box, 6 pot front/4 pot rear upgraded brakes running on Pirelli D4 Corsa’s on 7x15 and 9x15 original Fuch.
Runs Exe-TC single adjust comp dampers, which for me, combined with the immense torque and pick up from 1800, make this the best blend of power and handling I’ve ever experienced in an early 911.
Olive was built as an evolution to Kermit , which is also a fantastic car. Kermit was running on different tyres and set up far softer than Olive when I tested.

In comparison, the yellow 72 ST is a massive handful, frantic acceleration from 4500, 250bhp from short stroke 2.5lt off higher G60 cams. 980kg and exact in engine, chassis and body specification to original car. Different all together to Olive, and a huge event to drive. So light, totally stripped out, with fibre glass front wings and hood.

Olive off to Alps in September for a week of sweaty palm thrashing with a few other beards who are similarly hooked on the 70’s cars.
Bit of Matt Munro, cracking crew, and Olive....perfect.

Stunning, love the spec of Olive and just the path I should have gone down, at the time obsessed with competing and the wide RSR, on reflection something like Olive would be perfect.

Love the sound of the ST, remember Yellow's one and the very ethos of lightweight!

Its a shame it did not work out JC,i met the engine builder in cal the other year,congratulated him on building such poor engines!
Robbo i nearly fell asleep reading such a long spec on olive;)its a great car,needs to be here with me at loton park hillclimb
Must let me know the
Dates for the alps if happening,you guys need someone along with some mechanical knowledge.I would also need to change my 5th gear to get some sort of miles out of the fuel tank.I have fitted some led headlights to the rsr,fantastic result.

So taffy wants one of these as well now,but with filters,pdk,traction control,tourque vectoring,flappy paddles,cup holders,air con,elec windows,gt seats etc etc

[Cheib]

993rsr said:

Taffy66 said:

Paul Stephens seem to make really nice custom 911 2.4S with either 240HP or 290HP..At least you know the full cost from the outset..

With respect wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole.

Not in the same universe as something like Tuthill and seem very poor value for what they offer, or rather don’t;

https://www.tuthillporsche.com/bespoke-porsche-bui...

Edited by 993rsr on Friday 19th April 18:31

When I saw Olive at the Bicester Sunday Scramble in Jan there were also Paul Stephens cars there as well as a Singer, the Oshe Design 911 and a few other restomods. Didn’t look in any but from the external fit and finish of the cars the order was most definitely Singer, Olive (representing Tuthill) and then the Oshe and PS cars were a quite distant third. Given Tuthill’s main operation is race/rally preparation youbhave to imagine the mechanical bits are pretty good.

Separately I happened to stumble across the press launch for the PS Le Mans Classic Clubpaort last summer which is a “Limited Edition” of 10 cars they launched ... which AFAIK aren’t sold out yet. When i saw it I had no idea what it was but was shocked to find out they wanted £250k for it. Honestly wouldn’t pay half that for it...the detail just isn’t there.

[Yellow491]

On the st front,i was asked to share a drive at daytona 24hr classic with josh sadler of autofarm in his original st as per photos,we topped her out at 168mph,hairy with no downforce.
Funny story now,we had a great result with the car and a gentlemens aggrement you bend it you mend it,so josh sent me out to start the races!After the races over the 24 hours,josh was very moved by the results and then said i need to inform you i sold the car two weeks ago!But the new owner was happy we raced as long as returned it in good condition
No many people get to experience a true lightweight,a real privalage.

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

Its a shame it did not work out JC,i met the engine builder in cal the other year,congratulated him on building such poor engines!
Robbo i nearly fell asleep reading such a long spec on olive;)its a great car,needs to be here with me at loton park hillclimb
Must let me know the
Dates for the alps if happening,you guys need someone along with some mechanical knowledge.I would also need to change my 5th gear to get some sort of miles out of the fuel tank.I have fitted some led headlights to the rsr,fantastic result.

So taffy wants one of these as well now,but with filters,pdk,traction control,tourque vectoring,flappy paddles,cup holders,air con,elec windows,gt seats etc etc

I think we can safely say that if you need to know who NOT to get to build a watercooled or aircooled Porsche engine, JC can advise accordingly ...

Basically Taffy wants a Cayman R then

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

On the st front,i was asked to share a drive at daytona 24hr classic with josh sadler of autofarm in his original st as per photos,we topped her out at 168mph,hairy with no downforce.
Funny story now,we had a great result with the car and a gentlemens aggrement you bend it you mend it,so josh sent me out to start the races!After the races over the 24 hours,josh was very moved by the results and then said i need to inform you i sold the car two weeks ago!But the new owner was happy we raced as long as returned it in good condition
No many people get to experience a true lightweight,a real privalage.

Loved hearing that from you Paul, a very interesting evening and a great story too.

[Taffy66]

Slippydiff said:

Basically Taffy wants a Cayman R then

The way things are going in this country a Cayman R might be the only Porsche i realistically could afford. Anyone up for a virtually unused RS WP with a GPF which saps the power by 100BHP and weighs over a 100Kg..?
Probably not as they would forget to put water in the radiator..

[993rsr]

Slippydiff said:

Yellow491 said:

Its a shame it did not work out JC,i met the engine builder in cal the other year,congratulated him on building such poor engines!
Robbo i nearly fell asleep reading such a long spec on olive;)its a great car,needs to be here with me at loton park hillclimb
Must let me know the
Dates for the alps if happening,you guys need someone along with some mechanical knowledge.I would also need to change my 5th gear to get some sort of miles out of the fuel tank.I have fitted some led headlights to the rsr,fantastic result.

So taffy wants one of these as well now,but with filters,pdk,traction control,tourque vectoring,flappy paddles,cup holders,air con,elec windows,gt seats etc etc

I think we can safely say that if you need to know who NOT to get to build a watercooled or aircooled Porsche engine, JC can advise accordingly ...

Basically Taffy wants a Cayman R then

You’re not wrong H, a thoroughly unsavoury experience on both occasions.

However, third time lucky and the lure to get it right with something air cooled is an itch I’ll have to scratch once more.

[993rsr]

Yellow491 said:

On the st front,i was asked to share a drive at daytona 24hr classic with josh sadler of autofarm in his original st as per photos,we topped her out at 168mph,hairy with no downforce.
Funny story now,we had a great result with the car and a gentlemens aggrement you bend it you mend it,so josh sent me out to start the races!After the races over the 24 hours,josh was very moved by the results and then said i need to inform you i sold the car two weeks ago!But the new owner was happy we raced as long as returned it in good condition
No many people get to experience a true lightweight,a real privalage.

Stuff of dreams mate.

[Koln-RS]

Taffy66 said:

Paul Stephens seem to make really nice custom 911 2.4S with either 240HP or 290HP..At least you know the full cost from the outset..

[Slippydiff]

993rsr said:

You’re not wrong H, a thoroughly unsavoury experience on both occasions.

However, third time lucky and the lure to get it right with something air cooled is an itch I’ll have to scratch once more.

Have you found an engine builder JC ? Robbo seems to have had good results with Neil at BS (though clearly having the patience of a saint was helpful).

Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 19th April 23:00

[Robbo66]

Yellow491 said:

Its a shame it did not work out JC,i met the engine builder in cal the other year,congratulated him on building such poor engines!
Robbo i nearly fell asleep reading such a long spec on olive;)its a great car,needs to be here with me at loton park hillclimb
Must let me know the
Dates for the alps if happening,you guys need someone along with some mechanical knowledge.I would also need to change my 5th gear to get some sort of miles out of the fuel tank.I have fitted some led headlights to the rsr,fantastic result.

So taffy wants one of these as well now,but with filters,pdk,traction control,tourque vectoring,flappy paddles,cup holders,air con,elec windows,gt seats etc etc

How very dare you !. I know the ins and outs of the yellow ST as it was away for 6 months have the engine stripped and fettled.....every status update call a financial rabbit punch to the kidneys.

Personally, having picked the car up 70% complete, and having seen all the invoices on the shell and engine alone to get to that stage, I would never commission a build like that from the start, monumentally costly. MFI pumps...there are Fabergé eggs that command less.

Good luck at LP, drive carefully

[Matisse]

RSVP911 said:

I guess that means buying one that’s already done has to be the way to go (assuming you know what to look for)

That’s what I did (well, maybe without the “know what to look for” bit, other than knowing it needed to be viper green and have the confidence-inspiring name of Tuthill in the build file for me to phone up before purchasing). I certainly get a real buzz out of every drive...










And this was Adrian Crawford’s enthusiastic video that initially lured me in:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik_YRgiRZrw

[Taffy66]

Matisse said:

That’s what I did (well, maybe without the “know what to look for” bit, other than knowing it needed to be viper green and have the confidence-inspiring name of Tuthill in the build file for me to phone up before purchasing). I certainly get a real buzz out of every drive...










And this was Adrian Crawford’s enthusiastic video that initially lured me in:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik_YRgiRZrw

That is absolutely stunning..If i ever actually decide to get one this is the exact route i'll take..I neither have the patience or the engineering nous to even contemplate paying for a modded or restoration myself..
From reading the posts from real experts on this thread it seems Tuthill is the default choice..For me personally it would have to be based on a 1972/73 911 2.4S and end up some shade of green..The first Porsche i ever sat in was at Exeter OPC exactly 40 years ago was a Viper green 911 Coupe..I've wanted one ever since but have only ever bought modern Porches but the longing is growing stronger..