992 - The importance of the spec

992 - The importance of the spec

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IREvans

Original Poster:

578 posts

63 months

Wednesday 15th May
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I'm a few weeks and 500 miles into ownership of a 992 C2S. I went with RWS, -10mm PASM, sports exhaust, sports chrono and std 4 way Sport plus seats. I love how it drives; It's got superb road comfort, and it turns in so much more eagerly than a 991.2 GTS in the same chassis spec. I'd like to try it with PCCBs, just to see if the rather over servoed brake pedal improves, but otherwise, I wouldn't change a thing.

Anyway, I've got on loan a 992 C4S. It's a fairly heavy standard car with a sunroof and 18 way seats, but crucially doesn't have RWS or -10mm PASM. It's staggering how different it is to drive. Whereas my car turns in so precisely, this C4S feels really vague and imprecise. It's got a noticeable amount more body movement, and if you turn on sport PASM, it gets firmer and less comfortable, but is no easier to place at an apex at speed. On 3rd or 4th gear medium corners, it has a tendency to run wide on the exit - For me, it really isn't nice to pedal quickly.

We all like our cars to drive and behave differently, and its great that Porsche are one of the few manufacturers that allow you to chose your own preference of chassis options, but my advice would be before you order one, go and drive a variety of specs first.

There's a reason the GT3 comes as standard with RWS.....

CastroSays

165 posts

17 months

Wednesday 15th May
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What’s gone wrong with yours that you are already in a loaner.....?

Robbo66

3,368 posts

174 months

Wednesday 15th May
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IREvans said:
I'm a few weeks and 500 miles into ownership of a 992 C2S. I went with RWS, -10mm PASM, sports exhaust, sports chrono and std 4 way Sport plus seats. I love how it drives; It's got superb road comfort, and it turns in so much more eagerly than a 991.2 GTS in the same chassis spec. I'd like to try it with PCCBs, just to see if the rather over servoed brake pedal improves, but otherwise, I wouldn't change a thing.

Anyway, I've got on loan a 992 C4S. It's a fairly heavy standard car with a sunroof and 18 way seats, but crucially doesn't have RWS or -10mm PASM. It's staggering how different it is to drive. Whereas my car turns in so precisely, this C4S feels really vague and imprecise. It's got a noticeable amount more body movement, and if you turn on sport PASM, it gets firmer and less comfortable, but is no easier to place at an apex at speed. On 3rd or 4th gear medium corners, it has a tendency to run wide on the exit - For me, it really isn't nice to pedal quickly.

We all like our cars to drive and behave differently, and its great that Porsche are one of the few manufacturers that allow you to chose your own preference of chassis options, but my advice would be before you order one, go and drive a variety of specs first.

There's a reason the GT3 comes as standard with RWS.....
That’s pretty much perfect spec. The car is set up to work with RWS, I had it on my 991.1GT3 and it’s a serious leap forward IMV. Not sure what benefit there is at all by not speccing it, its a big car, RWS feels like it shrinks it to some degree, and the turn in is exceptional.

Leithen

5,454 posts

208 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
IREvans said:
I'm a few weeks and 500 miles into ownership of a 992 C2S. I went with RWS, -10mm PASM, sports exhaust, sports chrono and std 4 way Sport plus seats. I love how it drives; It's got superb road comfort, and it turns in so much more eagerly than a 991.2 GTS in the same chassis spec. I'd like to try it with PCCBs, just to see if the rather over servoed brake pedal improves, but otherwise, I wouldn't change a thing.
I'm 300 miles in and overall deeply impressed. I have an almost identical spec, with the addition of the nose lift.

I have a niggling feeling that the turn in isn't as good as the demonstrator I drove however. I initially lowered the tyre pressures to F31 R34 (10C cold) and selected the comfort tyre monitoring choice, but have put them back to standard (+1 deviation showing).

Time will tell, and perhaps the car is just tight at the moment. I'm following the handbook running in procedure - below 4000rpm. I just wonder if my front suspension has come out of the factory with a touch too much toe-out. The suspension damping is excellent - even in Sport it is useable on country roads.

ODRALLAG

260 posts

99 months

Wednesday 15th May
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The other thing of note from a few of the journo drives was that the C2S is the one to get this time esp with the better steering too.
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Cheib

16,192 posts

116 months

Wednesday 15th May
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ODRALLAG said:
The other thing of note from a few of the journo drives was that the C2S is the one to get this time esp with the better steering too.
I think the C2S has always been the one to get hasn’t it ?!?!

Taffy66

2,361 posts

43 months

Wednesday 15th May
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Cheib said:
I think the C2S has always been the one to get hasn’t it ?!?!
My 992 is still at the OPC waiting for me to pick it up....hopefully next Wednesday all well and good..It seems from reading reviews on the 992 that this generation in particular the 2S is a much better steer than the 4S..
Only last night i read a 992 4S Cabrio review and the reviewer said pretty much what the OP said.The reviewer even said that when he jumped straight into a 992 2S Cabrio that it much improved the driving dynamics..
A 4S with 18 ways,Pano roof and 4WD weighs about 100KG more than the OP's 2S with 4 ways and no glass roof...Couple another 100KG along with an 4WD and no RAS/-10mm then collectively makes a huge difference..As i've said i think its a combination of all these things that transforms the 992 and not just a singular thing..

Deep

708 posts

184 months

Wednesday 15th May
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I drove the C4S with 18 way seats, sports PASM, RAS and PDCC and thought it was a delight to drive. Compared to my 991 TTS it felt far more agile.

I wouldn't want to be without all the nice creature comforts in a road car and the 4wd makes the car easier to manage in poor conditions.

Horses for courses, a fully loaded C4S is still a delight to drive imho.

I saw an Agate grey (my favourite colour) one today and it looked stunning.

MeisterH

420 posts

42 months

Wednesday 15th May
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Let me tell you the facts- I’ve had lots of 911’s, 991 C2GTS, 991 GT3,991 GT3RS, I own a .2GT3RS and also a 992 C4S with RWS I opted for a non PDCC as I did not think on my last 991 GTS that it made any difference, I can honestly say that comparing my 991.2 GTS 2wd VS my 992 C4S the 992 wins hands down in agility, I drove a 992 C2s with NON RWS and it felt poor.

I’m astonished by the sheer turn in and traction from the 992 C4S

Cheib

16,192 posts

116 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Taffy66 said:
Cheib said:
I think the C2S has always been the one to get hasn’t it ?!?!
My 992 is still at the OPC waiting for me to pick it up....hopefully next Wednesday all well and good..It seems from reading reviews on the 992 that this generation in particular the 2S is a much better steer than the 4S..
Only last night i read a 992 4S Cabrio review and the reviewer said pretty much what the OP said.The reviewer even said that when he jumped straight into a 992 2S Cabrio that it much improved the driving dynamics..
A 4S with 18 ways,Pano roof and 4WD weighs about 100KG more than the OP's 2S with 4 ways and no glass roof...Couple another 100KG along with an 4WD and no RAS/-10mm then collectively makes a huge difference..As i've said i think its a combination of all these things that transforms the 992 and not just a singular thing..
Mad isn't it that the engineers spend all this time developing cars and doing so much to reduce weight and then you can ass 10 to 10% of eeight back to the car by ticking the wrong option boxes

Taffy66

2,361 posts

43 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Cheib said:
Mad isn't it that the engineers spend all this time developing cars and doing so much to reduce weight and then you can ass 10 to 10% of eeight back to the car by ticking the wrong option boxes
With the one notable exception of PCCBs every other cost option adds weight..The PDCC is hydraulically operated and adds weight..Even the wonderful RAS which is electrically operated adds a chunk of weight as it needs a separate battery situated way out back as a power source..
Personally i can't wait for the basic 992 Coupe with 400PS and Manual box with no options chosen..That'll be the sweet spot IMO, especially when you take into account how heavy a fully loaded 992 has become..The new 8 speed PDK in itself has grown by an extra 20KG on its own over the 991's as an example..!

Leithen

5,454 posts

208 months

Wednesday 15th May
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I'm even more confused now. A series of back roads around me seem to have a frequency of uneven bumps that completely unsettle the car. I've driven over the same B-roads for 30+ years in any number of different vehicles. From the most softly sprung to what I felt was very stiffly sprung (Exiges etc).

I'm now wondering if I've got some weird damper issue that is also killing the steering feel and turn in. If I can't improve this, ownership is not going to last long.

Taffy66

2,361 posts

43 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Leithen said:
I'm even more confused now. A series of back roads around me seem to have a frequency of uneven bumps that completely unsettle the car. I've driven over the same B-roads for 30+ years in any number of different vehicles. From the most softly sprung to what I felt was very stiffly sprung (Exiges etc).

I'm now wondering if I've got some weird damper issue that is also killing the steering feel and turn in. If I can't improve this, ownership is not going to last long.
Hi there..
The characteristic your 992 shows is totally out of character based on reviews..One possibility and a known issue in the US is that the RAS needs to be recalibrated..IIRC you mentioned in your previous post you have it fitted..RAS tuning is so precise it needs very little to throw it out of kilt..A smidge of out of kilter rear toe will play havoc with the complex algorithm of RAS..Even in pre-delivery transport from factory if the 992 is not secured correctly the sudden side to side movement can upset it..
Take it back to your supplying OPC and ask them to calibrate the RAS even to eradicate that possibility..

IREvans

Original Poster:

578 posts

63 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Leithen said:
I'm 300 miles in and overall deeply impressed. I have an almost identical spec, with the addition of the nose lift.

I have a niggling feeling that the turn in isn't as good as the demonstrator I drove however. I initially lowered the tyre pressures to F31 R34 (10C cold) and selected the comfort tyre monitoring choice, but have put them back to standard (+1 deviation showing).

Time will tell, and perhaps the car is just tight at the moment. I'm following the handbook running in procedure - below 4000rpm. I just wonder if my front suspension has come out of the factory with a touch too much toe-out. The suspension damping is excellent - even in Sport it is useable on country roads.
My tyre pressures are at the comfort setting, 29F/32R, and I prefer it at this setting, as it's way more compliant than at the higher standard pressures. Did you not like the way it drove on the comfort setting...?

If your car stays in a straight line under heavy braking from moderate speed, then it's unlikely that your front toe is out - I know this isn't particularly scientific, so to put your mind at ease, I'm sure your dealer would check the tracking for you.



Porsche911R

16,495 posts

206 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
RWS is a bit fake though, talk to any racer they hate it as the cars less predictable.

And yes I own one with and one without, don't care either way, the one with turns in different that's all at slower speeds.
the one without feels more true to drive.

PTV, PDK, e-diffs and now RWS are making people hero's the 992 feels like a bloody Audi to drive, there is nothing 911 about it imo.
But then Audi sell a lot of cars and it's what people want I think, get's macan buyers something to aim for now a 992 drives like it does, nothing to be scared of.

I think new cars in most brands are a bit st to drive, IF you like driving.
The 992 is dead to me, it's not a 911 !!!
I am sure most people want auto steering to come as soon as possible !!!

really hard to get past the Cayman R and 997.2 GTS models, the best era for drivers.

Porsche911R

16,495 posts

206 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Leithen said:
I just wonder if my front suspension has come out of the factory with a touch too much toe-out. .
you do realise if it had toe out the turn in would be crazy fast, you only have to look at the bend and the car will follow your eyes with toe out !!!

Leithen

5,454 posts

208 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
IREvans said:
My tyre pressures are at the comfort setting, 29F/32R, and I prefer it at this setting, as it's way more compliant than at the higher standard pressures. Did you not like the way it drove on the comfort setting...?

If your car stays in a straight line under heavy braking from moderate speed, then it's unlikely that your front toe is out - I know this isn't particularly scientific, so to put your mind at ease, I'm sure your dealer would check the tracking for you.
I returned to the higher pressures to try and improve the steering feel.

I've requested another drive of the dealership's C2S demonstrator, and will take it across the same roads at the same speed. Hopefully that will point towards either a problem with the car, or a problem with my brain/expectations.

An issue with the RAS might explain things. I've been impressed with the suspension damping over individual bumps, ridges, etc. But not the steering feel, turn in and chassis balance over sequences of uneven roads. I'm also surprised how much even the slightest application or increase of throttle mid corner will push the nose wide.

The course of true love never runs smooth.... It will be interesting to see how the Porsche Centre deal with it and what they do or don't find.

Leithen

5,454 posts

208 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
Leithen said:
I just wonder if my front suspension has come out of the factory with a touch too much toe-out. .
you do realise if it had toe out the turn in would be crazy fast, you only have to look at the bend and the car will follow your eyes with toe out !!!
Good point! Toe-in, or simply misalignment. Somethings not right, which of course may well be my own brain..... hehe

breadvan

1,321 posts

109 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
This thread is my nightmare.

I’m 2 weeks from owning a C2s Cab, an early car of course and specced by the dealer. Took a compromise to have an early car and it’s best described as a comfort spec.

No ras, pasm -10, nor pddc.

Got loads of nice to haves including 18 ways, matrix lights, Bose, chrono and sports exhaust.

Not sure about illuminated plates and sport design sills but they’re there.

I hope the cab won’t be so spec sensitive. I don’t think a c2s needs to be a pseudo GTS and I’m sure someone will still want at it the end of the summer when I trade up, I hope...........

Taffy66

2,361 posts

43 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
breadvan said:
This thread is my nightmare.

I’m 2 weeks from owning a C2s Cab, an early car of course and specced by the dealer. Took a compromise to have an early car and it’s best described as a comfort spec.

No ras, pasm -10, nor pddc.

Got loads of nice to haves including 18 ways, matrix lights, Bose, chrono and sports exhaust.

Not sure about illuminated plates and sport design sills but they’re there.

I hope the cab won’t be so spec sensitive. I don’t think a c2s needs to be a pseudo GTS and I’m sure someone will still want at it the end of the summer when I trade up, I hope...........
I've also got a 992 Cab coming in July in Gentian and Sport Tex seats..Looking forward to comparing it my 992 Coupe then decide which one to keep..
I've also got a 992TTS coming next year depending if i like the spec otherwise i'll switch to a Manual Base Coupe..