996 engine failure - oil in cylinder 4
Discussion
My 2002 996 C2 is poorly. On a trip to Cardiff from home near Oxford temperature gauge headed north, topped up coolant but on arrival in Cardiff big pool of liquid on floor as I parked. Topped up again but coming out of town grey smoke from engine and oil level warning. Pulled over. Some oil emerging from N/S exhaust. Got a tow to Porsche garage in Bristol who want to charge £1,000 just for telling me what's wrong. Report so far. "The coolant leak has been traced to a water pump leak.There is no evidence of water in the oil system, or oil in the water system so the 2 faults appear to be unrelated at this stage.The low oil pressure warning investigation has identified oil in cylinder 4 through the spark plug, we have also found silver filings (almost like glitter) in the oil filter and oil drained from the car. We cannot yet identify the source.We are currently at 2.5 hours of diagnostics at our standard rate of £130+VAT per hour, and it is at a point where we can carry on or where you can look at other alternatives.Our next step is to replace at least 4, ideally 6 spark plugs, and fill with fresh oil. We hope this might allow us to start the car to identify possible causes.We could perform the next diagnostics step and would require a further 3 hours, new spark plugs and fresh oil.Worst case scenario as it stands is an engine strip and rebuild. This job is a big one at 27 hours, plus any parts identified. The current investigation costs are £390, If you could confirm if you wish to go ahead with spark plugs, new oil, and further diagnosis at an estimated further cost of £700-£750." I would have thought that with an engine that's been around for 20 years this type of fault would be well-known. When I asked about likely cause, they replied "I have followed up with the technician regarding possible cause, without seeing the inside of the engine it is difficult to say, but could be wearing to an internal component. If this has been gradual wear it would support filings, until performing further testing and then potentially engine stripping it is tough to day.If the next stage of 3 hours, spark plugs, and fresh oil helps us perform some further system tests we may have more news if the engine turns over and allows us to read the engine systems while running." I'm really surprised it's going to cost £1,000 just to be told what's wrong with the engine. But clearly something fairly major has failed and I really don't know what to do next. Any comments or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I'm fairly sure I read recently that short engines are now available from Porsche for circa £5k - I would be investigating this before looking at a rebuild. Glitter in the oil sounds like a result of the dreaded bore scoring, in which case a new short engine is going to be your best bet.
Although I already know there will be a stream of posts accusing me of simply stating the following to get the business, despite this I must express my genuine view that a short engine is NOT the "best answer". It can have merit sometimes depending on what is wrong with the engine (and it may be something we would recommend considering in some circumstances and can fit) but there are several downsides.
Presuming your car is a 3.6 (as the date is at the end of the 3.4 production), the obvious one is that the replaced block has the same specification as the ones that fail (and some fail at low mileages) but also you heads need reconditioning and various other issues like snapped exhaust studs addresses to just rebuild the engine. Then there is the hourly rate your are being charged which far exceeds that of independents like us.
We (like some other specialists) also guarantee our work and can rebuild an engine for a competitive price but with superior parts and specifications (like our Nikasil alloy liners). We also offer the alternative of an oversized engine rebuild for improved performance.
The more investigative work you get done at a higher hourly rate the less attractive moving your problem to an independent becomes as you still have to settle the costs to date first.
Some Independents also offer more alternatives than a main agent that might suit your own circumstances or financial position better including some who will consider buying the car in its damaged state (which is all that some can afford to reluctantly do).
Can I respectfully suggest that before you go too far you discuss your situation with other specialists first and then make a decision based on more information.
There is quite a lot on our own web site www.hartech.org (including 2 videos).
Good luck,
Baz
Presuming your car is a 3.6 (as the date is at the end of the 3.4 production), the obvious one is that the replaced block has the same specification as the ones that fail (and some fail at low mileages) but also you heads need reconditioning and various other issues like snapped exhaust studs addresses to just rebuild the engine. Then there is the hourly rate your are being charged which far exceeds that of independents like us.
We (like some other specialists) also guarantee our work and can rebuild an engine for a competitive price but with superior parts and specifications (like our Nikasil alloy liners). We also offer the alternative of an oversized engine rebuild for improved performance.
The more investigative work you get done at a higher hourly rate the less attractive moving your problem to an independent becomes as you still have to settle the costs to date first.
Some Independents also offer more alternatives than a main agent that might suit your own circumstances or financial position better including some who will consider buying the car in its damaged state (which is all that some can afford to reluctantly do).
Can I respectfully suggest that before you go too far you discuss your situation with other specialists first and then make a decision based on more information.
There is quite a lot on our own web site www.hartech.org (including 2 videos).
Good luck,
Baz
6 new plugs and fresh oil and crossing fingers is likely to be hope rather than reality unfortunately.
as others have said, i think its time to wrap things up with the opc at the £390 already spent and give a lot of consideration to the price saving for ultimately a better job that would be performed by eg hartech
as others have said, i think its time to wrap things up with the opc at the £390 already spent and give a lot of consideration to the price saving for ultimately a better job that would be performed by eg hartech
PS2018 said:
6 new plugs and fresh oil and crossing fingers is likely to be hope rather than reality unfortunately.
as others have said, i think its time to wrap things up with the opc at the £390 already spent and give a lot of consideration to the price saving for ultimately a better job that would be performed by eg hartech
This. as others have said, i think its time to wrap things up with the opc at the £390 already spent and give a lot of consideration to the price saving for ultimately a better job that would be performed by eg hartech
Get a decent indy to remove the engine, ship it to Hartech and have their guys perform the full rebuild. After that, you'll know that you have a sound engine in the car.
Yup, definitely get that car out of OPC first. They are nothing but vampires to be honest. Tow it to one of the specialists, and they would give you an honest/fair diagnosis and final options. My suggestion would be to sell, it will cost a lot in any case, if you had it long enough and your fun with it.
ooid said:
Yup, definitely get that car out of OPC first. They are nothing but vampires to be honest. Tow it to one of the specialists, and they would give you an honest/fair diagnosis and final options. My suggestion would be to sell, it will cost a lot in any case, if you had it long enough and your fun with it.
I would definitely agree with the above suggestion, unless the car is in superb condition and not needing money spent on suspension, clutch, gearbox, brakes and cosmetics.You only have history of 1 post so are probably not aware of the major design problems of the 996 engine.
To have the car repaired could cost near its market value so you have to make a decision with your head rather than your heart!
Good luck.
I took mine to Hartech (driven from Swindon). I’d have kept using them for servicing after the rebuild (and initial oil change) if I’d been able to get it booked in. They’re really really busy! I’ve used Autofarm when I first bought the car and they’re great guys but their pricing is a different level.
The used market is a bit shaky at the moment with quite a few of the same 996's still advertised when I was looking for mine. Unless it is really special, e.g aerokit speed yellow c2 manual be realistic of it's actual market value before committing to a big spend unless it is a keeper with sentimental value? I would also be cautious if your man math decision to rebuild involves an expectation the 996 will rise in value like the air coolers!
I bought one knowing the risks and accepting that even if it requires a rebuild some time in the future nothing else can touch owning a 911 for all in cost of £20k...
I bought one knowing the risks and accepting that even if it requires a rebuild some time in the future nothing else can touch owning a 911 for all in cost of £20k...
m444ttb said:
I took mine to Hartech (driven from Swindon). I’d have kept using them for servicing after the rebuild (and initial oil change) if I’d been able to get it booked in. They’re really really busy! I’ve used Autofarm when I first bought the car and they’re great guys but their pricing is a different level.
I used Northway near you for years, can strongly recommend, very honest & professional outfit & would get them to do anything on my car no worries apart from a rebuild because Hartech have put the effort into addressing the weaknesses of the Porsche engine design, in fact they put Porsche to shame to some extent & it would in my books be a mistake to rebuild to the OEM specDefo sounds like Bore score issue. Thumbs up for Hartech Nikasil alloy liners, as my 997 is a Hartech rebuilt all 6 done and runs sweet 3 years on. The OPC will just reel you in bit by bit, if you own one of these cars you gotta have a plan for when it may cost you. In the long term get a good indi to look after you with preventative work every year as mine does.
I feel for you but give Baz a call at Hartech.
I feel for you but give Baz a call at Hartech.
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