Michael Fassbender: Road to Le Mans

[88racing]

Steve Rance said:

There will be drivers on the grid that have neither. I have a little more respect for them. Not all racing drivers are or were fortunate enough to be in that position but many have their careers ended by being driven into by drivers with huge budgets fast tracking in formulae that they do not have the experience to race in.

Very very well said Steve. Happens a lot in Blancpain. I’d certainly be pretty hacked off if some rich bloke ended my season on the first weekend because he made a stupid mistake that he can easily afford to make.

[RDMcG]

I thought was very honest.
I liked that mistakes were there, admitted and described.
I have driven this and the track in Ep2 and am no brilliant driver. It gives a proper perspective on the challenges for a new driver.

[Digga]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

But the question PaulM3 raises is kind of the crux of why it's so watchable - this could be many of us on here taking this journey. it's very interesting to see it pan out.

Sometimes, age is an advantage. I've always been good at taking advice and coaching, but somehow, the older I get, the faster and better it 'clicks'. In a way, I've also got more fearless, because I've simply done more (daft & dangerous) stuff. It's probably also because I've been through that mid-life consciousness (no, not crisis!) of realising you are closer to death than birth, that life is not a rehearsal, and you'd best JFDI.

There's also the complex issue of how other skills compliment driving. I mountain bike, a lot, so fitness, stamina and also seat-of-the-pants handling have some beneficial cross-over. I can see how an actor might be able to key into an innate and highly developed ability to memorise scripts, in order to learn circuits and strategies that a good team and coach provide.

[isaldiri]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It depends at what level one is going to be trying to compete too and type of car. Paul_M3 stated 'gt series' - could be GT-AM which one could presumably with a fair chunk of budget and dedication get competitive, or Pro-Am by hiring a very good pro as the co driver.....even if that person probably wouldn't be anywhere close in trying to comparison to GT-Pro.

And GT race cars are pretty heavily assisted with traction control and ABS so it very much helps to narrow the gap compared to say something like a high powered single seater.

[Durzel]

You could make an argument that younger guys have an edge because they throw all caution to the wind, whereas someone getting on in years may well have a wife, kids, etc that may, not always, be in the back of their mind. At this level even the slightest hesitation will end up costing seconds.

I found the linked video a great watch and am keen to binge watch the rest when I get chance, and to be frank I wouldn't bother watching if it it was an unknown guy (to me) there on merit. The fact it is Fassbender, an actor, doing this which one presumes he has little experience to call on is what makes it appealing to a layperson like me.

[noneedtolift]

I know the German Sports Cup quite well - whilst it is not uber-competitive, qualifying in the top ten is not that easy there. Given that he does not know the track I think he's done quite well!! Also, one car damaged per Weekend seems to be the par for the series
Good watch!

[Robbo66]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

‘Seat time’. If you have enough of it, then you will be better.

Rowing, cycling, running and swimming for example require a small amount of skill and a huge amount of ‘seat time’, dedication and application.

Ball sports require a certain amount of natural ability, then this can be coached, nurtured to the next level. Take tennis as above. Some are coached and play like they have been. Djokovic being one. Federer on the other hand has phenomenal natural timing and ability. McEnroe too.

Seat time is the dividing factor in motor racing driven by money, dedicated parents, luck, a lack of fear and utter selfishness in the pursuit of your goal.

You give 10 random guys a tennis racquet and very few will be able to bang a topspin backhand down the line consistently within 3 months of intensive coaching.

Give the same 10 a Caterham, with the same intensive training on track, and 90% will be right up there in the Academy Championship, within half that time IMV, and pushing to the next level.

[Digga]

Robbo66 said:

‘Seat time’. If you have enough of it, then you will be better.

Rowing, cycling, running and swimming for example require a small amount of skill and a huge amount of ‘seat time’, dedication and application.

And it is even more complex than that (s per commercial pilot's regulations) in terms of how much seat time, time since last seat time, variety and quality of seat time.

A very brief and easy to explain example; all the dry track time in the world is not necessarily going to give you the edge in a wet race, over a (perhaps not as proficient, on paper) driver who'd had the luck to run there the week before in the wet.

[boxsey]

Digga said:

A very brief and easy to explain example; all the dry track time in the world is not necessarily going to give you the edge in a wet race, over a (perhaps not as proficient, on paper) driver who'd had the luck to run there the week before in the wet.

That's a good point. Having been a passenger with a young racing driver around a wet Spa made me realize that no amount of seat time would give me his natural ability for car control that's needed to drive fast in the wet. That's when natural talent takes over.

[Robbo66]

boxsey said:

That's a good point. Having been a passenger with a young racing driver around a wet Spa made me realize that no amount of seat time would give me his natural ability for car control that's needed to drive fast in the wet. That's when natural talent takes over.

I don't think so. He'll know the track, driven in the wet countless times and be confident there. All about seat time, and with enough of it, you'll be right up there.

[Steve Rance]

I think to a point you can take a driver to reasonable Club level with some tuition but going up through the formuale the gaps open up very quickly and by the time you are at Semi pro/pro level there is a big void between that and Club level and that is usually down to ability and talent. I spent 2 years instructing at Brands Hatch and 20+ trying to help team mates find time in Racing Cars. Even with modern data logging equipment most drivers couldnt find extra time. The only driver that I worked with that kind of ability was Glen Geddy.

You can get a novice driver going pretty well with seat time and good instruction but the last second or two is down to Darwin. I had a team mate in Formula Ford who's father gave him a £2million budget to get to F1. He spent days testing and hiring days with the best instructors of the time - never got in the top half of grid and his Dad pulled the plug before he squandered the lot.

I think to be a quick driver you need exceptional balance, hand eye co-ordination, peripheral vision and the ability to 'get in front of the car'. In other words to drive to threashold subconsciously so that the conscious mind is freed up to strategise on adapting your driving style to suit changes in all vaiables (optimising tyre resource, weather, mechanical changes etc..) and planning attack and defence. Driving at 10/10ths and being able to recover from 11/10th is just the begining. Some of these will come with seat time but some wont.

[Penguinracer]

Steve, I think that the costs of making it in circuit racing are so high that if you've a lot of motorsport talent but don't have access to the required funding, you've probably got a better shot of progressing in rallying or if on two wheels, Road Racing. In those disciplines I think talent can carry you a good bit further before the limitations of finances become a serious issue.
Circuit racing has always been expensive. Remember that Stirling Moss' father bought him a Maserati 250F in 1954 - not exactly a shoestring enterprise.

My personal all-time favourite F1 driver, and statistically the most successful, Juan Manuel Fangio, was funded throughout his F1 career by the Argentine Government of Juan Peron.

I think the Michael Fassbender videos are really informative & unvarnished as to the challenges facing a rookie. When you think about, making it as a headline feature film actor in Hollywood is virtually as precarious as making it on o the grid in F1.

I recall an interviewer many years ago asking Steve Guttenberg why he hadn't been in many films recently. He replied that he was being selective as he was fortunate enough to be able to do so. As a counterpoint he said that there are 100,000 actors in the U.S. with an Equity Card and only 3000 of them earned $60,000 pa or more!

[Harris_I]

Steve Rance said:

You can get a novice driver going pretty well with seat time and good instruction but the last second or two is down to Darwin.

Love this quote!

Watching this thread with interest. (As someone with zero talent but who managed to not disgrace himself - for an amateur - after a LOT of seat time, and is now back to being embarrassingly awful having had almost no seat time for some years).

[anonymous-user]

Thanks for posting OP, really interesting and MF seems very normal and likeable.

[Harris_I]

Also interesting to note the points above about maturity and state of mind. When I do the occasional track day these days, I leave a fair bit in reserve - not just because I know my skills are not what they used to be, but also because I'd like to go home at the end of the day to the wife and kids with a big smile and minor rather than major wallet surgery.

10 years ago in club racing I would happily take my brain out before a race. A couple of crashes had enough of a financial and psychological impact to make me quit.

[Robbo66]

'If you want to be good at it, 10,000 hours'...speaks volumes

[anonymous-user]

Robbo66 said:

'If you want to be good at it, 10,000 hours'...speaks volumes

Exactly.

While it's true that you need some basic "ability" (rather than talent) such as hand, foot, eye co-ordination, the high performance only comes from those thousands of hours of quality practice.

[PistonBroker]

Steve Rance said:

The Elephant in the room is that not everyone has several million pounds in their back pocket or means to raise it as a complete novice to get there. It’s an interesting watch but bear in mind it’s the easiest possible golden ticket route. Guys with far more talent never get there.

That’s motor racing I suppose.

I've only watched the first episode but, yes, that was the overriding feeling I couldn't shake. Especially as the chap giving him instruction almost looked a bit uncomfortable to be there.

Kelvin Fletcher pointed that out when he was on The One Show last week sat next to Jenson Button. Seemed to fully appreciate that he'd only got a drive in the first place because of his profile.

But then, having said all that, if I suddenly became famous tomorrow, I'm sure I'd engineer/jump at a similar opportunity.

[Steve Rance]

Penguinracer said:

Steve, I think that the costs of making it in circuit racing are so high that if you've a lot of motorsport talent but don't have access to the required funding, you've probably got a better shot of progressing in rallying or if on two wheels, Road Racing. In those disciplines I think talent can carry you a good bit further before the limitations of finances become a serious issue.
Circuit racing has always been expensive. Remember that Stirling Moss' father bought him a Maserati 250F in 1954 - not exactly a shoestring enterprise.

My personal all-time favourite F1 driver, and statistically the most successful, Juan Manuel Fangio, was funded throughout his F1 career by the Argentine Government of Juan Peron.

I think the Michael Fassbender videos are really informative & unvarnished as to the challenges facing a rookie. When you think about, making it as a headline feature film actor in Hollywood is virtually as precarious as making it on o the grid in F1.

I recall an interviewer many years ago asking Steve Guttenberg why he hadn't been in many films recently. He replied that he was being selective as he was fortunate enough to be able to do so. As a counterpoint he said that there are 100,000 actors in the U.S. with an Equity Card and only 3000 of them earned $60,000 pa or more!

Yes, I agree

To race in the Formula Ford junior championship in the mid 80's was £1000 per race plus accident damage - if you were run by a propper team. Probably twice that or more now. A Carrera cup car is around £5k per hour to run at top level. Supercup will be more because of the ceramics. As said earlier, to apply the 10,000 hour rule to those figures is absurdly expensive.

[Steve Rance]

garyhun said:

Exactly.

While it's true that you need some basic "ability" (rather than talent) such as hand, foot, eye co-ordination, the high performance only comes from those thousands of hours of quality practice.

Thats the key. Some drivers (very few) are able to go quickly with very little seat time. But I would not agree that only some basic ability is needed. There is a high degree of natural talent needed to be successful. As in almost all sports, there is a lot more to it that first appears and the best exponents of it just make it look easy by making essential imputs and decisions at precisely the correct moment again and again. The vast majority of drivers will simply never be capable of achieving that.