Porsche 911 Reimagined by Singer

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

That’s how the Singer exhaust should look IMO.
The tailpipes could still have some perf inside them to reduce the rasp, but the outside could/should be ceramic coated in light grey, dark grey or black.

[Slippydiff]

RM said:

How about they throw a Gunther Werks into the mix too?

Nicely engineered, but makes a Singer look positively restrained ...

[Slippydiff]

Jamie Summers said:

Yes, that one ! I remembered as soon as I put the post up that it was a genuine RSR. The diamond stitched red leather interior was a bit of an acquired taste, but it's undoubtedly a cool car. I'd be just as interested in a Singer RSR as I would one of the backdates..... Though the interest is purely academic barring an vast unforeseen windfall !

Was it not bought by someone who posts on here ? (could be another forum......) and was being returned to original RSR spec, with the original engine having been tracked down somewhere. I'm sure there was a story involved....... Then it vanished - haven't seen any report of it for probably 10 years ???

It was a chap on the Porsche Club GB forum. Lovely car, interior definitely an acquired taste ...
But yes, he found the original RSR engine, but in the time it took him to find it, he got rather attached to the 450-500hp Gemballa (Lotec) engine conversion...

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

Mistake,cheap are you sure!;)

Hard to believe I know Paul, but a bit like the 993 Clubsport based “Black Snake” “Ring record car, Mr Schmitz does occasionally let a special car slip through his sweaty, avaricious mitts on the cheap

[Yellow491]

Slippydiff said:

Yellow491 said:

Mistake,cheap are you sure!;)

Hard to believe I know Paul, but a bit like the 993 Clubsport based “Black Snake” “Ring record car, Mr Schmitz does occasionally let a special car slip through his sweaty, avaricious mitts on the cheap

[Yellow491]

Slippydiff said:

Yellow491 said:

That’s how the Singer exhaust should look IMO.
The tailpipes could still have some perf inside them to reduce the rasp, but the outside could/should be ceramic coated in light grey, dark grey or black.

This engine was built by the older gents who designed and built the 917 engines,they have one in a 911,the sound ,the way it revs and goes just puts everything to bed.
Sadly not for sale they built just two for something to do and see if they could still build such things.

[AlienLifeForm]

Give me this 964 Carrera Cup any day of the week and I’ll spend the £400k I’ve saved on speciality jazz mags and Chinese fireworks.

[browngt3]

Yellow491 said:

This engine was built by the older gents who designed and built the 917 engines.

Herr Mezger? That engine is a work of art, and the Singer DLS too

[browngt3]

blackmamba said:

browngt3 said:

I wonder how much input a Singer customer really gets in choosing spec. Mean there's definitely a particular look and style to them both inside and out.

There is a menu of options which is quite exhaustive and the customer can also request bespoke items if they so wish. You could spec any combo you like, they don't try and steer you towards "loud" specs but I guess a lot of people who have carte blanche want to go crazy. These are also the people who are more visible in the media. They have done some very subtle greys/blacks/blues without decals and plain black interiors but I guess these aren't the ones splashed all over social media. A lovely car was delivered to London recently that is a very simple red with black interior and looks fabulous.

They are very expensive and its hard to argue they are better value than a CGT or a 2.7RS which people may consider alternatives and are Porsche factory products. They are astonishingly good to drive though and I would argue far more practical than either a CGT or 2.7 RS so I think if you are in the fortunate position to really be able to afford one (and not care about value, depreciation, running cost etc) then its quite possibly the best road going 911 around. As HC said, the one car that can do it all.

Makes sense with that level of budget. I do agree a Singer makes a compelling case for itself in today's crowded supercar market. A bespoke work of both craftsmanship and technology that doesn't shout too loudly. It might even attract less attention in Lidl's carpark than my bright red GT3

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

Slippydiff said:

Yellow491 said:

That’s how the Singer exhaust should look IMO.
The tailpipes could still have some perf inside them to reduce the rasp, but the outside could/should be ceramic coated in light grey, dark grey or black.

This engine was built by the older gents who designed and built the 917 engines,they have one in a 911,the sound ,the way it revs and goes just puts everything to bed.
Sadly not for sale they built just two for something to do and see if they could still build such things.

Interesting cam covers Paul (and cam chain housing/covers) or are the cams gear driven ? Is it DOHC and 4 valves per cylinder ?

[Yellow491]

Slippydiff said:

Yellow491 said:

Slippydiff said:

Yellow491 said:

That’s how the Singer exhaust should look IMO.
The tailpipes could still have some perf inside them to reduce the rasp, but the outside could/should be ceramic coated in light grey, dark grey or black.

This engine was built by the older gents who designed and built the 917 engines,they have one in a 911,the sound ,the way it revs and goes just puts everything to bed.
Sadly not for sale they built just two for something to do and see if they could still build such things.

Interesting cam covers Paul (and cam chain housing/covers) or are the cams gear driven ? Is it DOHC and 4 valves per cylinder ?

Yes as a 917 with 4 valves,revs like a banshee,i could see that in my hillclimber.

build your own special,which can be lighter,faster,more nimble and fun every time you get behind the wheel.

[Penguinracer]

Slippy, while it's definitely a topic deserving of it's own thread, I'd be interested to hear of your observations of the current Ruf products.

While I've admired Ruf's from afar, I always assumed that they presented a pinnacle in 911 engineering.
Are they no longer what they used to be?

The fact they designed & built their own V8 & then carbon-tubbed models suggests they were definitely in at the deep-end of engineering development,but were some of these products problematic?

Please feel free to post your observations in a new thread - I'm genuinely interested.

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

Yes as a 917 with 4 valves,revs like a banshee,i could see that in my hillclimber.

build your own special,which can be lighter,faster,more nimble and fun every time you get behind the wheel.

Do you remember the Canadian company that developed 4 valve heads for the 964/993 engines back in the 90's Paul ? There was feature on it an American magazine called "European Car" and I think the heads were featured and advertised in 911 and Porsche World magazine too.

The company tied up with a well known German engine builder and Cartronic to build and test a motor and finesse the whole package. They fitted the heads to a 993 motor (I imagine non Varioram) IIRC it produced 420hp with mild cams and a decent exhaust.
It wasn't a cheap conversion and disappeared into the ether, never to be heard of again. Despite spending hours on the interweb, I couldn't find any information on the company or the heads/conversion itself.

Mentioned here : https://rennlist.com/forums/911-forum/1291-4-valve...

Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 26th February 10:59

[Yellow491]

Slippydiff said:

Yellow491 said:

Yes as a 917 with 4 valves,revs like a banshee,i could see that in my hillclimber.

build your own special,which can be lighter,faster,more nimble and fun every time you get behind the wheel.

Do you remember the Canadian company that developed 4 valve heads for the 964/993 engines back in the 90's Paul ? There was feature on it an American magazine called "European Car" and I think the heads were featured and advertised in 911 and Porsche World magazine too.

The company tied up with a well known German engine builder and Cartronic to build and test a motor and finesse the whole package. They fitted the heads to a 993 motor (I imagine non Varioram) IIRC it produced 420hp with mild cams and a decent exhaust.
It wasn't a cheap conversion and disappeared into the ether, never to be heard of again. Despite spending hours on the interweb, I couldn't find any information on the company or the heads/conversion itself.

Mentioned here : https://rennlist.com/forums/911-forum/1291-4-valve...

Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 26th February 10:59

I remember cartronic well,i used to run there exhaust mod and ecu revised chip on my 993rs,he did know his onions,the 4 valves were just to expensive,as i was all ears at the time!

I am just in the middle of rebuilding my hillclimb 3.8 engine that me and colin belton from 9m developed 16 years ago,i have to say 5 stars for this engine,its been nothing short of 100% reliable,its been raced,hillclimbed,road to track days at spa and the ring etc,totaly abused with fresh oil regularly.Nothing short of remarkable.
Decided to strip as tempting fate after 16 years!only thing we found was two cylinders the nikisil was starting to come off,one very slightly bent valve,carrillo rods reconditioned and should be back at the 378bhp we had before,all credit where credit is due to colin.

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

I remember cartronic well,i used to run there exhaust mod and ecu revised chip on my 993rs,he did know his onions,the 4 valves were just to expensive,as i was all ears at the time!

I am just in the middle of rebuilding my hillclimb 3.8 engine that me and colin belton from 9m developed 16 years ago,i have to say 5 stars for this engine,its been nothing short of 100% reliable,its been raced,hillclimbed,road to track days at spa and the ring etc,totaly abused with fresh oil regularly.Nothing short of remarkable.
Decided to strip as tempting fate after 16 years!only thing we found was two cylinders the nikisil was starting to come off,one very slightly bent valve,carrillo rods reconditioned and should be back at the 378bhp we had before,all credit where credit is due to colin.

That’s good to hear Paul
More on those 4 valve heads here :

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technic...

Kelso Technologies

[comfortably numb]

Slippydiff said:

That’s how the Singer exhaust should look IMO.
The tailpipes could still have some perf inside them to reduce the rasp, but the outside could/should be ceramic coated in light grey, dark grey or black.

Actually, this is a box that I have ticked.

[Davey S2]

I remember Andy74B dismissing Singer a few years ago on the grounds of cost but he's somewhat changed his mind since his car was delivered last year.

Very understated grey exterior with dark interior. Really stunning car.

.

[Slippydiff]

comfortably numb said:

Slippydiff said:

That’s how the Singer exhaust should look IMO.
The tailpipes could still have some perf inside them to reduce the rasp, but the outside could/should be ceramic coated in light grey, dark grey or black.

Actually, this is a box that I have ticked.

[IMI A]

Yellow491 said:

Slippydiff said:

Yellow491 said:

Yes as a 917 with 4 valves,revs like a banshee,i could see that in my hillclimber.

build your own special,which can be lighter,faster,more nimble and fun every time you get behind the wheel.

Do you remember the Canadian company that developed 4 valve heads for the 964/993 engines back in the 90's Paul ? There was feature on it an American magazine called "European Car" and I think the heads were featured and advertised in 911 and Porsche World magazine too.

The company tied up with a well known German engine builder and Cartronic to build and test a motor and finesse the whole package. They fitted the heads to a 993 motor (I imagine non Varioram) IIRC it produced 420hp with mild cams and a decent exhaust.
It wasn't a cheap conversion and disappeared into the ether, never to be heard of again. Despite spending hours on the interweb, I couldn't find any information on the company or the heads/conversion itself.

Mentioned here : https://rennlist.com/forums/911-forum/1291-4-valve...

I am just in the middle of rebuilding my hillclimb 3.8 engine that me and colin belton from 9m developed 16 years ago,i have to say 5 stars for this engine,its been nothing short of 100% reliable,its been raced,hillclimbed,road to track days at spa and the ring etc,totaly abused with fresh oil regularly.Nothing short of remarkable.
Decided to strip as tempting fate after 16 years!only thing we found was two cylinders the nikisil was starting to come off,one very slightly bent valve,carrillo rods reconditioned and should be back at the 378bhp we had before,all credit where credit is due to colin.

Have a Colin Belton 3.8 in our 9m RS. Its fantastic. Not cheap though or as powerful as yours at 330bhp but makes my 997 mezger rated at 800bhp + on race fuel feel tame by comparison - you could also say that about the cars themselves not just their engines. £27,000 in 2015 for a 9m 3.8 so your development work with Mr Belton has probably benefitted lots of us - many thanks

[PS2018]

big fan of catchpole and big fan of the car! good video