992 GT3 finished and no cammo.

992 GT3 finished and no cammo.

Author
Discussion

993rsr

3,434 posts

250 months

Friday 18th September 2020
quotequote all
' Dear Mr Menegaux

My name is Mr Demon from Pistonheads, you've probably heard of me I'm the chap who's constantly posting about my driving prowess and how quick I am in my 991.2 GT3 (perfection specification I would add) although I've never taken the car on track.

I must draw your attention to your incorrect inflation pressure information:

INFLATION PRESSURE ADVICES

On the track for majority of car (*)
Cold tires
• Inflate the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup2 with a pressure between 1.7 bar (24 psi) and 1.8 bar (26 psi) front & rear
• Never allow the pressure to be below 1.5 bar (22 psi)

24 psi is way too low imo to go out on, and as for never allowing the pressure to be below 22 psi, this is ridiculous, It's put too much movement though the tyre and NOT recommend by myself as Pistonheads resident driving guru. PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THIS FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess OK if not pushing, hence why I drop them a bit on arrival do 2 siteing laps just to see if the tracks the same layout, or if a big curbs been put in any where etc etc, then do a bleed down, then do 3 faster laps and a 2nd bleed down.

I don't want to damage the framework of the tire running too low too early as you cannot see the damage.

If you require my services for tyre testing at Ladoux, I have a 30 minute slot at 2.30-3.00pm on a Friday when I'm not spending all my waking hours on Pistonheads.

Best wishes

Mr Demon'




Edited by 993rsr on Friday 18th September 13:34

Porsche911R

Original Poster:

21,146 posts

266 months

Friday 18th September 2020
quotequote all
993rsr said:
' Dear Mr Menegaux

My name is Mr Demon from Pistonheads, you've probably heard of me I'm the chap who's constantly posting about my driving prowess and how quick I am in my 991.2 GT3 (perfection specification I would add) although I've never taken the car on track.

I must draw your attention to your incorrect inflation pressure information:

INFLATION PRESSURE ADVICES

On the track for majority of car (*)
Cold tires
• Inflate the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup2 with a pressure between 1.7 bar (24 psi) and 1.8 bar (26 psi) front & rear
• Never allow the pressure to be below 1.5 bar (22 psi)

24 psi is way too low imo to go out on, and as for never allowing the pressure to be below 22 psi, this is ridiculous, It's put too much movement though the tyre and NOT recommend by myself as Pistonheads resident driving guru. PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THIS FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess OK if not pushing, hence why I drop them a bit on arrival do 2 siteing laps just to see if the tracks the same layout, or if a big curbs been put in any where etc etc, then do a bleed down, then do 3 faster laps and a 2nd bleed down.

I don't want to damage the framework of the tire running too low too early as you cannot see the damage.

If you require my services for tyre testing at Ladoux, I have a 30 minute slot at 2.30-3.00pm on a Friday when I'm not spending all my waking hours on Pistonheads.

Best wishes

Mr Demon'
All my info is factual and correct, you can take the piss, but it's there to help novices, I pointed out to the OP on the "
981 GT4 Unusual Left Front Tyre Wear" why his tyre had done the above, YOU have NOT offered any advice to the OP or any one else.

here is the letter back from Mr Menegaux :-) if you care one jot about the tyres on your cars.


"" Regarding your query for the track usage of MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2, please find our recommendations below.

MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 is a track tire, which meets the legal requirements for use on the public highway. It has been specifically optimized for use on a dry track.
On a wet track or road, where there is a risk of aquaplaning, adapt your driving style by reducing your speed and leaving the safety and driver assistance systems connected.
For track and road handling reasons, the fitting of a set of 4 MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 is strongly advised.

Before Fast Circuit Use always:
Verify the condition of your tyres, checking for wear & damage
Build up to the temperature of the tyres gradually by a few more moderate paced laps

Pressure:

Hot tyres
The optimal operating pressure of the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup2 must be between 2.2
bar (32 psi) and 2.3 bar (34 psi) Front & Rear
Never allow the tires to run below 2.0 bar (29 psi) HOT

To warm up the tyres and adjust the inflation pressure:

1. Cold tires: inflate the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 with the recommended pressure

2. Bring your tyres up to temperature with a run building up the pace with a run of 3 to 6
laps (dependent upon the length of the circuit). The first few laps should be more
moderate and not close to the limits of the tyre/car (respecting the limits of the
driver/car/brakes/tyres will prepare for a better track day) Bring the tyres up to
temperatures progressively especially if the tyres are new

3. Return to the paddock, and immediately check the hot pressures of the tyres

4. Re-adjust to the recommended pressure

5. Repeat a second run of 3 to 6 laps at a more normal pace getting closer to the potential

6. Re-adjust to the recommended pressure for a 2nd time

7. You can then use this pressure for the rest of your Track day

After running on the circuit and before returning to the road:

Always check the condition of your tyres to ensure they are safe and comply with relevant local traffic laws
Allow the tyres to cool ideally before making appropriate pressure adjustments
Re-adjust your cold tyre pressures in accordance with the pressure recommended by the car manufacturer
If they have been disconnected/switch off, re-instate all safety systems, driver aids and tyre pressure monitoring





There is also another Tech doc about swapping over the Cup2's side to side which talks about groove direction and how the tyres has been designed for the left of the car, and hence why you can swap tyres on the front to even out tyre wear.



Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 18th September 14:30

FurtiveFreddy

8,577 posts

238 months

Friday 18th September 2020
quotequote all
I have an email in front of me from Michelin's UK Technical Manager stating that 2 bar is the minimum pressure for the Cup 2 in any situation.

Whilst there will be some on here who run outside Michelin's recommendations, this is what they are saying.

The Connect product is aimed at owners of high performance cars who want to take them on track and don't have extensive knowledge of how to optimise pressures and interpret temperatures.

The app uses historical data to recommend pressures and alert the driver if the tyres are at the wrong pressure and temperature for the prevailing conditions so the driver could, for instance, visit a circuit they've never been to before and use it get in the window relatively quickly. In that respect, it's a useful tool for a lot of track day drivers I would suggest.

But everyone I'm sure will have their own opinion.;)

Cheib

23,288 posts

176 months

Friday 18th September 2020
quotequote all
The words Can and Worms come to mind.

I’ll report back when I’ve got my tyres and had a play with them.

As 911 R said they are supposed to be a different compound to the normal Cup 2. It’s perhaps this reason why they aren’t N rated (maybe that will change). You could see an option of the New Car Configurator for GT cars to upgrade to Connect tyres with a built in connectivity via the PCM.

What Michelin should do is to get their App integrated into CarPlay.

I think it’s also not just about tyres being too hot....I did a day at Silverstone last year when it was cold and had rained a lot overnight. Track wasn’t “wet” but it was cold and damp...there was absolutely fk all grip. In that situation it would have been very interesting to see what the readings were.

Melvynr

1,404 posts

52 months

Friday 18th September 2020
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
All my info is factual and correct, you can take the piss, but it's there to help novices, I pointed out to the OP on the "
981 GT4 Unusual Left Front Tyre Wear" why his tyre had done the above, YOU have NOT offered any advice to the OP or any one else.

here is the letter back from Mr Menegaux :-) if you care one jot about the tyres on your cars.


"" Regarding your query for the track usage of MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2, please find our recommendations below.

MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 is a track tire, which meets the legal requirements for use on the public highway. It has been specifically optimized for use on a dry track.
On a wet track or road, where there is a risk of aquaplaning, adapt your driving style by reducing your speed and leaving the safety and driver assistance systems connected.
For track and road handling reasons, the fitting of a set of 4 MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 is strongly advised.

Before Fast Circuit Use always:
Verify the condition of your tyres, checking for wear & damage
Build up to the temperature of the tyres gradually by a few more moderate paced laps

Pressure:

Hot tyres
The optimal operating pressure of the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup2 must be between 2.2
bar (32 psi) and 2.3 bar (34 psi) Front & Rear
Never allow the tires to run below 2.0 bar (29 psi) HOT

To warm up the tyres and adjust the inflation pressure:

1. Cold tires: inflate the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 with the recommended pressure

2. Bring your tyres up to temperature with a run building up the pace with a run of 3 to 6
laps (dependent upon the length of the circuit). The first few laps should be more
moderate and not close to the limits of the tyre/car (respecting the limits of the
driver/car/brakes/tyres will prepare for a better track day) Bring the tyres up to
temperatures progressively especially if the tyres are new

3. Return to the paddock, and immediately check the hot pressures of the tyres

4. Re-adjust to the recommended pressure

5. Repeat a second run of 3 to 6 laps at a more normal pace getting closer to the potential

6. Re-adjust to the recommended pressure for a 2nd time

7. You can then use this pressure for the rest of your Track day

After running on the circuit and before returning to the road:

Always check the condition of your tyres to ensure they are safe and comply with relevant local traffic laws
Allow the tyres to cool ideally before making appropriate pressure adjustments
Re-adjust your cold tyre pressures in accordance with the pressure recommended by the car manufacturer
If they have been disconnected/switch off, re-instate all safety systems, driver aids and tyre pressure monitoring





There is also another Tech doc about swapping over the Cup2's side to side which talks about groove direction and how the tyres has been designed for the left of the car, and hence why you can swap tyres on the front to even out tyre wear.



Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 18th September 14:30
Wouldnt fancy that at all , grooves are cut to throw out the water.If you think its ok to swap over the fronts, then why not the rears as well?

TDT

4,947 posts

120 months

Friday 18th September 2020
quotequote all
Melvynr said:
Porsche911R said:
All my info is factual and correct, you can take the piss, but it's there to help novices, I pointed out to the OP on the "
981 GT4 Unusual Left Front Tyre Wear" why his tyre had done the above, YOU have NOT offered any advice to the OP or any one else.

here is the letter back from Mr Menegaux :-) if you care one jot about the tyres on your cars.


"" Regarding your query for the track usage of MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2, please find our recommendations below.

MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 is a track tire, which meets the legal requirements for use on the public highway. It has been specifically optimized for use on a dry track.
On a wet track or road, where there is a risk of aquaplaning, adapt your driving style by reducing your speed and leaving the safety and driver assistance systems connected.
For track and road handling reasons, the fitting of a set of 4 MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 is strongly advised.

Before Fast Circuit Use always:
Verify the condition of your tyres, checking for wear & damage
Build up to the temperature of the tyres gradually by a few more moderate paced laps

Pressure:

Hot tyres
The optimal operating pressure of the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup2 must be between 2.2
bar (32 psi) and 2.3 bar (34 psi) Front & Rear
Never allow the tires to run below 2.0 bar (29 psi) HOT

To warm up the tyres and adjust the inflation pressure:

1. Cold tires: inflate the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 with the recommended pressure

2. Bring your tyres up to temperature with a run building up the pace with a run of 3 to 6
laps (dependent upon the length of the circuit). The first few laps should be more
moderate and not close to the limits of the tyre/car (respecting the limits of the
driver/car/brakes/tyres will prepare for a better track day) Bring the tyres up to
temperatures progressively especially if the tyres are new

3. Return to the paddock, and immediately check the hot pressures of the tyres

4. Re-adjust to the recommended pressure

5. Repeat a second run of 3 to 6 laps at a more normal pace getting closer to the potential

6. Re-adjust to the recommended pressure for a 2nd time

7. You can then use this pressure for the rest of your Track day

After running on the circuit and before returning to the road:

Always check the condition of your tyres to ensure they are safe and comply with relevant local traffic laws
Allow the tyres to cool ideally before making appropriate pressure adjustments
Re-adjust your cold tyre pressures in accordance with the pressure recommended by the car manufacturer
If they have been disconnected/switch off, re-instate all safety systems, driver aids and tyre pressure monitoring





There is also another Tech doc about swapping over the Cup2's side to side which talks about groove direction and how the tyres has been designed for the left of the car, and hence why you can swap tyres on the front to even out tyre wear.



Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 18th September 14:30
Wouldnt fancy that at all , grooves are cut to throw out the water.If you think its ok to swap over the fronts, then why not the rears as well?
Think you need to have a look at how the tyres are mounted on your car if you have Cup2 on.

911r is correct. If you can’t see why… it’s ok.
Just leave it.

Melvynr

1,404 posts

52 months

Saturday 19th September 2020
quotequote all
TDT said:
Think you need to have a look at how the tyres are mounted on your car if you have Cup2 on.

911r is correct. If you can’t see why… it’s ok.
Just leave it.
Yes, I see it now after studying a pic of my new Cups for the CS I had.Rears are mounted the same, so why can you not swap over the rear wheels?


TDT

4,947 posts

120 months

Saturday 19th September 2020
quotequote all
Melvynr said:
TDT said:
Think you need to have a look at how the tyres are mounted on your car if you have Cup2 on.

911r is correct. If you can’t see why… it’s ok.
Just leave it.
Yes, I see it now after studying a pic of my new Cups for the CS I had.Rears are mounted the same, so why can you not swap over the rear wheels?

No reason not too.… but generally the fronts take more of the beating, so you’d be inclined to swap those more.
RearS tend to wear a bit more evenly L to R.
But I have also swapped them side to side… just depends on your usage and what you see/feel.

Melvynr

1,404 posts

52 months

Saturday 19th September 2020
quotequote all
TDT said:
No reason not too.… but generally the fronts take more of the beating, so you’d be inclined to swap those more.
RearS tend to wear a bit more evenly L to R.
But I have also swapped them side to side… just depends on your usage and what you see/feel.
Good info.No tracks here to put it on, so just fast road use and all the tyres are wearing nice and even.Cheers.

rkwm1

1,476 posts

103 months

Saturday 19th September 2020
quotequote all
i think the rear still has some sort of camo on it

Not sure if this is gt3 or rs but its look very quick and that sound cloud9


https://www.instagram.com/p/CFSLZEgKuTE/


gtsralph

1,189 posts

145 months

Saturday 19th September 2020
quotequote all
Odd sound climbing up after Adenau Bridge, hitting the limiter?

TDT

4,947 posts

120 months

Saturday 19th September 2020
quotequote all
gtsralph said:
Odd sound climbing up after Adenau Bridge, hitting the limiter?
Yep, pretty cool, pushing hard.

isaldiri

18,623 posts

169 months

Saturday 19th September 2020
quotequote all
Mad Scientist said:
If anyone thinks an app is going to allow them to leave a track day with “as new” tyres they are either delusional or only doing 6 laps.
Driving so slowly he could get 5 trackdays out of a set of front tyres on a gt4 might also explain the 'as new' tyre comment I suppose......

rkwm1

1,476 posts

103 months

Sunday 27th September 2020
quotequote all
looks like January launch for GT3

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/porsche-992-gt3...


Actually not too sure. doesnt look like a gt3.



https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2021-porsche-gt-...

Edited by rkwm1 on Sunday 27th September 17:29


Edited by rkwm1 on Sunday 27th September 17:30

Steve Rance

5,448 posts

232 months

Monday 28th September 2020
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
The benefit of this technology is not for you though :-), it's quite clear it's for the novice who don't change temps (ie the ones asking on forums every day what temps to set and why are their tyres nackered after 1/2 a day) and stay out 20 laps at a time. this tech will get people to set a correct pressure and when the tyres do over heart it will tell them to come in, or do a cool down lap or 2.

the advantage for every one is setting different left and right PSI's over guessing. Unlike BMW which give you quite a lot of Data in the computer. Porsche data is just PSI. So it's one less thing to worry about and also the cup2 connect is said to be abetter tyre than the normal cup.

26 psi is a bit low imo to go out on, It's put too much movement though the tyre and NOT recommend by Michelin.
I guess OK if not pushing, hence why I drop them a bit on arrival do 2 siteing laps just to see if the tracks the same layout, or if a big curbs been put in any where etc etc, then do a bleed down, then do 3 faster laps and a 2nd bleed down.

I don't want to damage the framework of the tire running too low too early as you cannot see the damage.

Michelin are being quite strict atm about how to use their tyres as people are miss using them or using them out of their guidelines.
Sorry i'm late replying to this. Yep I understand that. Anyone who races will be used to bringing tyres up from a starting point of under inflation. You wont win many races by stopping after 2 laps to bleed your tyres off. You always start under inflated. Bear in mind that tyres warm up a lot quicker when slightly under inflated, if you push hard straight away they come up very quickly and there will be no damage to the structure. It wont work if you are cautious. I can see why this system would work for an inexperienced driver and why Michelin wouldnt recommend under inflation. Several laps on an under inflated tyre is not ideal. A few corners is fine. On saying that, tyre management or is a very useful skill to learn as it will help a driver get heat into a tyre in colder conditions on the road without risking themselves or other road users. One of the few track skills that translates well on the road.


EvoSid

1,102 posts

64 months

Thursday 1st October 2020
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:






Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 17th September 09:38
Wow this picture just make me want a 991 GT3 more than a 992,
TBH I did not even realise that the 992 GT3 was even in the picture in pretty much undisguised form
The yellow really suits 991 GT3

Porsche911R

Original Poster:

21,146 posts

266 months

Thursday 1st October 2020
quotequote all
I would say most will order a touring this time round, which will knock the current prices a bit on those.

Davey S2

13,097 posts

255 months

Thursday 1st October 2020
quotequote all
Taffy66 said:
just look what Ferrari have achieved with the new Roma, makes the 992 look cheap and already outdated..
I suspect the sales figures for both cars will tell a different story.

rkwm1

1,476 posts

103 months

RSVP911

8,192 posts

134 months

Friday 23rd October 2020
quotequote all
rkwm1 said:
I’ll stick with my 991.2 - much better looking car IMHO smile