Steering wheel (non)alignment and increased camber levels?

Steering wheel (non)alignment and increased camber levels?

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Discussion

Twinfan

Original Poster:

8,265 posts

71 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
When my GT4 was last at my OPC it had an alignment check and I think at that point the steering wheel ended up off-centre. I didn't bother doing anything about it as I was taking it elsewhere for a couple of modifications and a full geo in the near future and assumed it would be sorted at that point.

That work has now been done and I'm running -2.5 degrees of negative camber on the front but the steering wheel is still slightly off centre, even though I asked for it to be centred as part of the geo work. I took it back there on Monday for a tweak but I've been told the wheel can't be adjusted any more as it will trigger a steering wheel position sensor fault. I've asked if adjusting the tie rods and re-aligning the toe will fix it but they've said it's a result of the aggressive camber setting rather than the geometry of the car. They've had the same problem on a GT3RS previously too.

Has anyone else come across this? Or should front toe adjustment fix it and I need to get them to re-do it?

Cheers for any advice.

TDT

3,009 posts

86 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
I would go back to the geo shop and ask them to back everything off - set the steering straight and then set the geo...Your steering should be straight obviously and then cambers etc fall where they will... if you end up with slightly less neg camber - no loss.
Surprised they didn't pick up that the steering wasn't straight in the first place... thats the foundation of setting a geo..








Twinfan

Original Poster:

8,265 posts

71 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
Cheers TDT. The wheel is only very slightly off, more noticeable due to the yellow stripe on my wheel. I assumed going back to scratch and starting again would be the way to go but wanted to see what others thought.

Thanks again smile

james.a.c.911

148 posts

35 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
I don't have experience with the GT4, but I'm surprised the alignment shop handed the keys back without mentioning the steering wheel not being perfectly aligned in the first place.

My experience (with 996) is that you need people who really care and are super detailed for good Geo. All the others who just get is 'close to spec' and have excuses why some tuff can't be done, just won't get it right. This includes a highly regarded specialist that has done a great job on my car on engine rebuild, all sorts of mods etc. They are great, but they are not geo nerds. Only the geo nerds have got it right for me. That's String Theory and Blackboots/ Wheels in Motion. With everyone else the geo was never quite right. I think that's why people like Centre Gravity have developed such a reputation, because you need to be very dedicated to do it right.

So if they didn't mention the steering wheel not being straight at the start or at the end, i would assume they are not geo nerds, and i would not trust the "can't be done".

Call Centre Gravity, Strong Theory, any other highly regarded porsche alignment specialist and ask them if they've seen this before.

TDT

3,009 posts

86 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
Have to agree.

Even though i have had suspension work done by other places and re-used several times... my car was best set when I visited a dedicated geo-specialist including 2 of those mentioned above.

Also at the end of the day things move on, and whilst geo principles remain the same - the kinematics of these cars have changed a lot over the years.


Edited by TDT on Tuesday 25th May 12:33

Taffy66

4,684 posts

69 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
A steering wheel not pointing absolutely straight on especially with a bright yellow centre marker is a pet hate of mine and totally unacceptable. IME OPCs are the worst places to get a geo done on a GT Porsche.

Slippydiff

12,359 posts

190 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
Twinfan said:
When my GT4 was last at my OPC it had an alignment check and I think at that point the steering wheel ended up off-centre. I didn't bother doing anything about it as I was taking it elsewhere for a couple of modifications and a full geo in the near future and assumed it would be sorted at that point.

That work has now been done and I'm running -2.5 degrees of negative camber on the front but the steering wheel is still slightly off centre, even though I asked for it to be centred as part of the geo work. I took it back there on Monday for a tweak but I've been told the wheel can't be adjusted any more as it will trigger a steering wheel position sensor fault. I've asked if adjusting the tie rods and re-aligning the toe will fix it but they've said it's a result of the aggressive camber setting rather than the geometry of the car. They've had the same problem on a GT3RS previously too.

Has anyone else come across this? Or should front toe adjustment fix it and I need to get them to re-do it?

Cheers for any advice.
The amount of camber is immaterial, so they either need to recalibrate the sensor or adjust the toe properly with the steering wheel centered and fixed in position prior to adjusting the toe arms. I'd suggest the latter rather than the former would be the correct way to address the issue.

If they're spouting nonsense about "having the same problem with a GT3RS previously", I'd suggest they're inept and you should find someone/a company who actually understands what they're doing and how to adjust the toe relative to the steering wheel/column.
A quick call to CG, or any of the well regarded Porsche Indies will confirm the wheel should be straight irrespective of the camber adjustment.

Twinfan

Original Poster:

8,265 posts

71 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
Thanks all. The OPC initially got the wheel off-centre and didn't mention it, so sloppy work on their part for sure - as we've come to expect from OPC geos.

The geo place I'm using didn't realise they hadn't fixed the problem as it's very slight so it's unfair to say they should have noticed it. You only realise it's off a tiny amount when you go out for a run on a straight and flat road. You can't really tell on a workshop ramp.

I'm waiting for my geo place to get back to me otherwise I have another local geo place that I've been thinking about checking out for a little while so I may just take it there to see if they can sort it.

james.a.c.911

148 posts

35 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
I'm no specialist, but i believe setting the steering wheel dead straight is the first thing you do when doing things correctly.
My guy also would not deliver the car without test drive including on straight road.
Maybe it's so immaterial they didn't notice.. the 'can't be done' though is what seems to indicate they can't be bothered.

TDT

3,009 posts

86 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
Twinfan said:
The geo place I'm using didn't realise they hadn't fixed the problem as it's very slight so it's unfair to say they should have noticed it. You only realise it's off a tiny amount when you go out for a run on a straight and flat road. You can't really tell on a workshop ramp.

I'm waiting for my geo place to get back to me otherwise I have another local geo place that I've been thinking about checking out for a little while so I may just take it there to see if they can sort it.
As we’ve all been saying the steering should be set level before the start, and with the steering set level in the car the initial reading will tell you where the car is and if something is off… so it actually unacceptable that this wasn’t picked by the shop… especially as you told them to it was a problem… so no discovery involved… they just needed to confirm by how much it was off and then fix it, as part of their work… they should have to fix it now, gratis…


LennyM1984

343 posts

35 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
A lot of the more run-of-the-mill geo places will just eye ball what is "straight" and then clamp the wheel in position. Inevitably, this leads to a crooked wheel when you actually sit in the car and try to travel in a straight line. CG (and I'm sure others) set the steering wheel using a level. This ensures that it is actually straight rather than just looking straight.

In terms of their explanation, that doesn't really make sense to me. It would only upset the steering wheel calibration if they tried to straighten it by removing and refitting the steering wheel. Surely the correct way to do it is to get it straight via the tie rods.


Twinfan

Original Poster:

8,265 posts

71 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
I agree, I think the tie rods need tweaking. I think because it was just off centre they tried re-calibrating the steering wheel TDC electronically as a simpler fix but it didn't go far enough. This was to avoid re-doing the front geo I suspect but that's what's going to have to happen.

r1flyguy1

1,485 posts

143 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
Ive had the steering wheel not straight issue after an OPC geo, then had Cup2’s fitted and a GEO by a very highly regarded GEO company, even after that the steering wheel sits left side low, I mentioned it after the road test following their work and they assured me it was straight!!!

When driving along the road with the marker TDC the car steers to the right slightly!

Maybe they just cant be bothered to do the job properly or my head is not on straight biglaugh

Twinfan

Original Poster:

8,265 posts

71 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
r1flyguy1 said:
Ive had the steering wheel not straight issue after an OPC geo, then had Cup2’s fitted and a GEO by a very highly regarded GEO company, even after that the steering wheel sits left side low, I mentioned it after the road test following their work and they assured me it was straight!!!

When driving along the road with the marker TDC the car steers to the right slightly!

Maybe they just cant be bothered to do the job properly or my head is not on straight biglaugh
That's exactly the issue I have - I am wondering if my eyes have gone all spin

LennyM1984

343 posts

35 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
If you notice it, I think there is probably something wrong.

I had my Cayman done by a highly recommended tuner/geo garage and the steering wheel definitely wasn't straight. I tried to convice myself that I was imagining things but alongside the wonky wheel it just never felt right and so I ended up taking it to CG. Needless to say that the steering wheel was indeed wonky and the geo was all over the place (half a degree more camber on one side, 16' toe on EACH rear wheel etc).

Having had it done properly, the steering wheel now sits straight and everything feels natural (so much so that you don't notice it)

james.a.c.911

148 posts

35 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
what you could do is park on a level ground, use a spirit level to set it straight, put a piece of masking tape somewhere on the dash/ steering column which aligns with the yellow center market on the wheel.
Then drive in a straight line and assess if you steering wheel isn't straight or if your head is screwed on sideways ! wink

james.a.c.911

148 posts

35 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
LennyM1984 said:
everything feels natural (so much so that you don't notice it)
This is the best way to describe the difference between a really good geo and an average one.

For people who can't travel north to the internet gods of alignment (centre gravity), i highly recommend Ben at String Theory in Stratford Upon Avon


r1flyguy1

1,485 posts

143 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
james.a.c.911 said:
This is the best way to describe the difference between a really good geo and an average one.

For people who can't travel north to the internet gods of alignment (centre gravity), i highly recommend Ben at String Theory in Stratford Upon Avon
It was CG who did mine but the steering wheel is not straight in my opinion. They assure me it is, but with the wheel centred based on the centre strip on the top of the steering wheel, as I state the car veers right very slightly.
I’ve never been happy with the steering wheel & kind of diluted the ‘experience/expectations’ of CG but the GEO was better.

I’m actually quite close to Stratford so ‘might’ give them a try see if they can prove or disprove my opinion.

Twinfan

Original Poster:

8,265 posts

71 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
Very interesting that CG did yours, after all the rave reviews of them...

r1flyguy1

1,485 posts

143 months

Tuesday 25th May
quotequote all
Twinfan said:
Very interesting that CG did yours, after all the rave reviews of them...
I hadn't used them before and they are not that far from me tbh so thought it was worth the day out and hoped they would sort out the steering wheel issue, but they didn’t. The car did handle better. The before settings were embarrassing having been done by an OPC.
I just need a second opinion on the steering wheel. The car has been tucked up since last October and wont be on the road until July due to work commitments so may try the place in Stratford just to see if i was right or......



Need to see a chiropractor to get my neck straightened biglaugh