Steering wheel (non)alignment and increased camber levels?
Discussion
TDT said:
Has any one considered that the strip at TDC might be a little off also?
People seem to be putting a lot of faith in a strip of fabric, that vs instrumented level?
Just saying….
I think the issue is:People seem to be putting a lot of faith in a strip of fabric, that vs instrumented level?
Just saying….
Twinfan said:
I've been told the wheel can't be adjusted any more as it will trigger a steering wheel position sensor fault.
To my eyes the crest is off-centre in most Porsche steering wheels - when compared to the horizontal spoke alignment; there is also some consternation with RHD cars where the wheel migrates over the first couple of thousand miles; in some cases I have seen tyre profiling occur where the same route day after day leads to a situation where the tyres wear in relation to the road surface (extreme cases; accepted)
When I geo a car I use the digital level recommended / supplied by Porsche and always test on the same piece of road before signing off. I know which bits cause the car to pull to one side (a particular roundabout at 10mph when braking to a stop for example).
The main cause of pulling or issues when the geo is right and
the wheel is centred is usually wheel load (corner weight) as a result of ride height imbalances; impact related movements or previous adjustments. Self regulating air suspension cars can suffer in particular when loaded/unloaded but not self levelled as the average height stays within tolerances).
When I geo a car I use the digital level recommended / supplied by Porsche and always test on the same piece of road before signing off. I know which bits cause the car to pull to one side (a particular roundabout at 10mph when braking to a stop for example).
The main cause of pulling or issues when the geo is right and
the wheel is centred is usually wheel load (corner weight) as a result of ride height imbalances; impact related movements or previous adjustments. Self regulating air suspension cars can suffer in particular when loaded/unloaded but not self levelled as the average height stays within tolerances).
The first thing I would do is centre the rack before leveling the wheel. I.e. pull the steering gaitor/boot off the steering rack housing, wind onto full lock, measure the gap from where the rack protrudes from the housing to the end of the rack, wind lock back until you've halved the first measurement. Now the rack is centred. Then check steering wheel level and move wheel without moving the column if needed.
Tripe Bypass said:
The first thing I would do is centre the rack before leveling the wheel. I.e. pull the steering gaitor/boot off the steering rack housing, wind onto full lock, measure the gap from where the rack protrudes from the housing to the end of the rack, wind lock back until you've halved the first measurement. Now the rack is centred. Then check steering wheel level and move wheel without moving the column if needed.
This is similar to my experience. I'd had a new steering rack fitted and after having the alignment done the wheel was off to the left. I was told there was not enough adjustment in the tie rods and that was the best they could do. I went to another alignment place who did a much better job but still slightly off .Sitting in the car winding the wheel lock to lock and noting the position of the centre logo I could turn nearly 1/8th further one way than the other. On closer inspection of the universal joint it was 2 splines off centre. With the rack centred on the correct spline, alignment redone the wheel is now arrow straight.
Is there anything in the cars history to indicate if the steering rack and column have been separated??
One could do the following:
Park on level surface; one which has been verified as level.
Stick some masking tape on the back of the steering boss.
Stick (using masking tape) a cut off cable tie to the dash just below the dials, with the pointy end just touching the masking tape. This must be done so that rotating the wheel does no disturb the cable tie.
Centre the wheel, first by eye, and then with a torpedo level across the spokes (might need some lego bricks to raise it above the boss).
Now mark on the masking tape where the pointer is. This is your reference when you go out for a drive.
On a quiet straight road drive at 30-40 mph on the correct side. The note the difference between the pointer and the mark. Due to the camber of the road the mark should be slightly to the right of the pointer.
Now drive the same section of road the other way. WARNING this is the “wrong” side of the road (like an overtake) - ensure no traffic or pedestrians. Again note the difference.
If the wheel is correctly centred the difference between the pointer and mark will be the same, albeit the other side.
I had a well know Porsche specialist set up my 718 and they used a steering level. Geo and handling was excellent. But I was convinced the wheel was more off centre than one would expect*; they even did a post alignment test drive (in the winter dark and rain which is why I think they missed it).
So back home I did all the above and QED I proved the steering wheel was no centred correctly. I took i back to them with my markers and tape (and lego) and they agreed with me. Given they geo 100s of Porsches a year how did they get ti wrong!?
Collectively we identified the amount of leather on the right thumb rest area of the wheel was more than the left. Now the wheel level gauge presses in to the thumb rest to secure it and so the difference causes “level” not to be “level”. They re-adjusted it using my lego and torpedo level setup across the top of the spokes and bingo, all good :- )
Everyday is a learning day.
(* on a ‘normal’ single carriageway road with camber from curb to centre, the steering wheel has to be slightly turned right to over come the force of gravity.)
Park on level surface; one which has been verified as level.
Stick some masking tape on the back of the steering boss.
Stick (using masking tape) a cut off cable tie to the dash just below the dials, with the pointy end just touching the masking tape. This must be done so that rotating the wheel does no disturb the cable tie.
Centre the wheel, first by eye, and then with a torpedo level across the spokes (might need some lego bricks to raise it above the boss).
Now mark on the masking tape where the pointer is. This is your reference when you go out for a drive.
On a quiet straight road drive at 30-40 mph on the correct side. The note the difference between the pointer and the mark. Due to the camber of the road the mark should be slightly to the right of the pointer.
Now drive the same section of road the other way. WARNING this is the “wrong” side of the road (like an overtake) - ensure no traffic or pedestrians. Again note the difference.
If the wheel is correctly centred the difference between the pointer and mark will be the same, albeit the other side.
I had a well know Porsche specialist set up my 718 and they used a steering level. Geo and handling was excellent. But I was convinced the wheel was more off centre than one would expect*; they even did a post alignment test drive (in the winter dark and rain which is why I think they missed it).
So back home I did all the above and QED I proved the steering wheel was no centred correctly. I took i back to them with my markers and tape (and lego) and they agreed with me. Given they geo 100s of Porsches a year how did they get ti wrong!?
Collectively we identified the amount of leather on the right thumb rest area of the wheel was more than the left. Now the wheel level gauge presses in to the thumb rest to secure it and so the difference causes “level” not to be “level”. They re-adjusted it using my lego and torpedo level setup across the top of the spokes and bingo, all good :- )
Everyday is a learning day.
(* on a ‘normal’ single carriageway road with camber from curb to centre, the steering wheel has to be slightly turned right to over come the force of gravity.)
Edited by churchie2856 on Wednesday 26th May 09:44
Chris at CG is a decent bloke, I'd have another chat about the steering wheel issue & see if theres a way to make you a happier customer.
Especially as you're not far away.
They are rammed out with work so there might be a bit of a wait, but IMHO they're the go to guys.
Top Tip: Pork pies & or Stilton will get you anywhere with CG
buddys dad said:
Chris at CG is a decent bloke, I'd have another chat about the steering wheel issue & see if theres a way to make you a happier customer.
Especially as you're not far away.
They are rammed out with work so there might be a bit of a wait, but IMHO they're the go to guys.
Top Tip: Pork pies & or Stilton will get you anywhere with CG
Nice tip, I shall bear that in mind. Especially as you're not far away.
They are rammed out with work so there might be a bit of a wait, but IMHO they're the go to guys.
Top Tip: Pork pies & or Stilton will get you anywhere with CG
I broke my wrist yesterday so won’t be driving anywhere for a while so maybe I’ll be good to book ahead
OK, so a quick update on my car's steering wheel alignment.
I was at my geo place this morning for around an hour or so and the toe front and rear was completely re-done from scratch with the wheel re-centred as the first step. Unfortunately it doesn't really seem to have helped, the wheel marker is still around 1/2 inch to the left when on a flat road going straight ahead.
I've spoken to them after arriving home and it's going to get booked in again for a few hours for another full geo reset but this time I'm going to jump in and out of the car at various points to check that the wheel is centred dead straight to my eyes to begin with, same once the geo's been re-done, take it out for a test drive with one of the guys there etc etc.
So no fix as yet, but they're going to get it sorted.
I was at my geo place this morning for around an hour or so and the toe front and rear was completely re-done from scratch with the wheel re-centred as the first step. Unfortunately it doesn't really seem to have helped, the wheel marker is still around 1/2 inch to the left when on a flat road going straight ahead.
I've spoken to them after arriving home and it's going to get booked in again for a few hours for another full geo reset but this time I'm going to jump in and out of the car at various points to check that the wheel is centred dead straight to my eyes to begin with, same once the geo's been re-done, take it out for a test drive with one of the guys there etc etc.
So no fix as yet, but they're going to get it sorted.
Urggh... sorry to hear about this.... starting to sound like the steering rack might be off by a few splines as mentioned earlier in the thread?
or maybe its just the steering wheel.. if everything else is confirmed straight..
I dunno...
Strange one.
or maybe its just the steering wheel.. if everything else is confirmed straight..
I dunno...
Strange one.
Edited by TDT on Tuesday 1st June 14:39
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