Are 997 gen 1 / gen 2s over priced?
Discussion
shuebc said:
Possibly bad choice for London but depends if you'd taking it out on drives on weekends out of London.
M2 is actually very easy to live with (to be honest possibly a bit easy - why I'm looking for something a bit more old school and raw). It's actually really nice to pootle around with window down (engine sound at low revs is lovely). Window up - it's a bit too insulated sound wise. All depends what you want from car - absolutely love how it looks, question is would you be happy driving the M2 slowly in town - if I'm honest it doesn't feel special enough sitting inside - but I'd say thats more down to it not being a traditional two seater coupe.
The main thing with the M2 is that at high revs it lacks that feel of the engine going all out - that drama that happens with old school cars. I use to have Z4 Coupe and the engine is to scream at high revs and in some ways felt more exciting when getting on it. And sitting inside one - it felt more special - hunkered down and low - car felt like wrapped around you.
If you don't nee practicality (or 4 seats) - I was thinking of getting a Z4M coupe before the M2 - might be a nice alternative over M2. Prices are creeping up slowly on them - but you do get 8000 RPM S54 engine - and its bloody rare sight on the road too... I think 1000 odd in UK only.
Or maybe an Aston Martin Vantage V8 - but heard running costs can be a nightmare.
Thanks for the insights, great to hear from an owner and exchange thoughts, what PH is all about! This would be the wife's car and I'd keep my 997 (.1 with "dodgy engine" M2 is actually very easy to live with (to be honest possibly a bit easy - why I'm looking for something a bit more old school and raw). It's actually really nice to pootle around with window down (engine sound at low revs is lovely). Window up - it's a bit too insulated sound wise. All depends what you want from car - absolutely love how it looks, question is would you be happy driving the M2 slowly in town - if I'm honest it doesn't feel special enough sitting inside - but I'd say thats more down to it not being a traditional two seater coupe.
The main thing with the M2 is that at high revs it lacks that feel of the engine going all out - that drama that happens with old school cars. I use to have Z4 Coupe and the engine is to scream at high revs and in some ways felt more exciting when getting on it. And sitting inside one - it felt more special - hunkered down and low - car felt like wrapped around you.
If you don't nee practicality (or 4 seats) - I was thinking of getting a Z4M coupe before the M2 - might be a nice alternative over M2. Prices are creeping up slowly on them - but you do get 8000 RPM S54 engine - and its bloody rare sight on the road too... I think 1000 odd in UK only.
Or maybe an Aston Martin Vantage V8 - but heard running costs can be a nightmare.
). The points you highlight re the M2 are actually in favour for my intended use case, essentially family car with the upside of serious performance on occasion and being special by virtue of an M-car. Really need to test some come next year and see if I can stomach running costs of a second performance car.Good luck with the search on the 911 front!
Da Original Whyayedee said:
Shame it’s not an S! As per the other thread though I’m going to look at the Aqua blue one next week.
Don't discount the Gen 2 3.6. I think it sounds sweeter than the 3.8 and has a nice, revvy character. Personally, I think it's quick enough. Ultimately, it's 3.6 versus 3.8 of exactly the same engine. It's not a huge difference.cabbalisticar said:
Don't discount the Gen 2 3.6. I think it sounds sweeter than the 3.8 and has a nice, revvy character. Personally, I think it's quick enough. Ultimately, it's 3.6 versus 3.8 of exactly the same engine. It's not a huge difference.
Agree (and we own a S). Sweet is the perfect description.And that car has the best wheels.
cabbalisticar said:
Da Original Whyayedee said:
Shame it’s not an S! As per the other thread though I’m going to look at the Aqua blue one next week.
Don't discount the Gen 2 3.6. I think it sounds sweeter than the 3.8 and has a nice, revvy character. Personally, I think it's quick enough. Ultimately, it's 3.6 versus 3.8 of exactly the same engine. It's not a huge difference.The main difference are the options between C2 and C2S. Crucially the S came with PASM as standard. I'm a fan of properly set up passive suspension myself. I don't need switching between modes, but this is mho.
Also I prefer the dash without the sport chrono clock and I also prefer a car with a single throttle setup. Sports button that essentially only increase throttle opening is a bit cringe, again imho. Same goes for exhaust.
Whilst silver is one of my least favourite colours, this car looks great! The wheels look great too! Well written ad too. Other than it being silver, the only thing that would put me of is the amount of former owners. Current owner has had it only 1.5 years and is the 8th owner from new
Following this as it's an interesting mix...
Personally, purchased a 997.1 with a mind that if it borks, then get it fixed, if not, run it and enjoy it. It did end up needing the front crossover pipes doing (ouch) but so far everything else is OK. I've done of DIY bits on it (it's 17 years old!) and change the PCM.
However, soon after I got mine, there was a 997.1 with a Hartech rebuild for a few k more, which was a bit of a bummer. So they do come up, with a rebuild, for similar money to the non-rebuilt cars, or at least a small premium.
This for example, looks like good value...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211201...
That said, and I'm not sure why, but something on that ad isn't passing the sniff test? As this https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211231... is more money, not with a rebuild and just looks like a better car!
To the point, BMW diesel swirl flaps, BMW nikasil linings, VANOS failues, most cars DPF's, most cars Dual Mass flywheels, K-Series head gaskets, Mazda rotary cracked tips, and no doubt every other internet message would have you believe these (and many more) are absolutes, and 100% certain to happen to every car. Clearly, this isn't always true.
Why worry about something that may not happen? And bore-scoring isn't a catastrophic failure, so you have time to plan should it happen, and it'll not leave you stranded at the side of the road. For me it was a 997.2 for at least £10k - 15k more, or find a good 997.1 with a borescope done and have the spare cash as a war chest? it's only not our only car, and I do not do that many miles.
Personally, purchased a 997.1 with a mind that if it borks, then get it fixed, if not, run it and enjoy it. It did end up needing the front crossover pipes doing (ouch) but so far everything else is OK. I've done of DIY bits on it (it's 17 years old!) and change the PCM.
However, soon after I got mine, there was a 997.1 with a Hartech rebuild for a few k more, which was a bit of a bummer. So they do come up, with a rebuild, for similar money to the non-rebuilt cars, or at least a small premium.
This for example, looks like good value...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211201...
That said, and I'm not sure why, but something on that ad isn't passing the sniff test? As this https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211231... is more money, not with a rebuild and just looks like a better car!
To the point, BMW diesel swirl flaps, BMW nikasil linings, VANOS failues, most cars DPF's, most cars Dual Mass flywheels, K-Series head gaskets, Mazda rotary cracked tips, and no doubt every other internet message would have you believe these (and many more) are absolutes, and 100% certain to happen to every car. Clearly, this isn't always true.
Why worry about something that may not happen? And bore-scoring isn't a catastrophic failure, so you have time to plan should it happen, and it'll not leave you stranded at the side of the road. For me it was a 997.2 for at least £10k - 15k more, or find a good 997.1 with a borescope done and have the spare cash as a war chest? it's only not our only car, and I do not do that many miles.
So for me at the moment its between
This: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211201...
It's had a Hartech Rebuild to 4,5 and 6, a full rebuild will obviously be more desirable, but speaking to Hartech rebuilding that bank is likely to be sufficient to see you good. I am pretty sure its Midnight blue, nice colour, and has had some good work done it aside from the Rebuild too.
And then this Gen2, again looks lovely, people have said its cheap for a Gen2 but with its mileage I think it's been priced accordingly, well its been listed since August, so no one has snapped it up in a few months. So maybe there is a little bit to come off it too.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13781783
So its £9k difference, which is a big dent in the budget for the other things I'd like to do (Coilovers, wheels, exhaust etc) I am going around in circles a bit, time is running out too for me to get one for my 40th which doesn't have to happen, but it would be a pretty sweet birthday if it can all be tied up.
This: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211201...
It's had a Hartech Rebuild to 4,5 and 6, a full rebuild will obviously be more desirable, but speaking to Hartech rebuilding that bank is likely to be sufficient to see you good. I am pretty sure its Midnight blue, nice colour, and has had some good work done it aside from the Rebuild too.
And then this Gen2, again looks lovely, people have said its cheap for a Gen2 but with its mileage I think it's been priced accordingly, well its been listed since August, so no one has snapped it up in a few months. So maybe there is a little bit to come off it too.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13781783
So its £9k difference, which is a big dent in the budget for the other things I'd like to do (Coilovers, wheels, exhaust etc) I am going around in circles a bit, time is running out too for me to get one for my 40th which doesn't have to happen, but it would be a pretty sweet birthday if it can all be tied up.
With every generation these cars get more and more sanitised. So it is possible that the Gen 1 is a more raw car than the Gen 2 but not sure you would actually notice. And do you want raw or do you want newer? Even if the Gen 1 engine is only half new it is still all fully rebuilt with new gaskets etc. Maybe that means it will last longer - who knows.
ATM said:
With every generation these cars get more and more sanitised. So it is possible that the Gen 1 is a more raw car than the Gen 2 but not sure you would actually notice. And do you want raw or do you want newer? Even if the Gen 1 engine is only half new it is still all fully rebuilt with new gaskets etc. Maybe that means it will last longer - who knows.
That’s my feeling too. The sound of the gen 1 is just fantastic, I don’t know if you can get something similar with an aftermarket exhaust on a gen 2 though?Think there's a tiny bit more steering feel / weight in the gen 1 (same rack, but revalved) and the engines sound a tiny bit more gritty. But I think that is about the size of the differences from a driving perspective. PASM is updated on gen 2, as well, with g sensor and updated mapping, of course. Whether it's better per se is another matter...
cabbalisticar said:
Think there's a tiny bit more steering feel / weight in the gen 1 (same rack, but revalved) and the engines sound a tiny bit more gritty. But I think that is about the size of the differences from a driving perspective. PASM is updated on gen 2, as well, with g sensor and updated mapping, of course. Whether it's better per se is another matter...
Don't forget a DSC controller will level the PASM differences... And is very much re-sellable if needed.RemarkLima said:
Don't forget a DSC controller will level the PASM differences... And is very much re-sellable if needed.
I'm not sure I'd value any of the PASM options terribly highly. I've currently got a Gen 2 car and have fitted the DSC box and am trawling Black Friday deals looking for B16 Damptronic as the factory dampers just aren't that great, something the DSC box ultimately doesn't fix! cabbalisticar said:
RemarkLima said:
Don't forget a DSC controller will level the PASM differences... And is very much re-sellable if needed.
I'm not sure I'd value any of the PASM options terribly highly. I've currently got a Gen 2 car and have fitted the DSC box and am trawling Black Friday deals looking for B16 Damptronic as the factory dampers just aren't that great, something the DSC box ultimately doesn't fix! 
Yeh I’ve decided to commit to waiting for gen 2 - inspite of the sound.
Also the 911 forum - one of the guys posted a quote on the 997.1 from Hartech themselves, and they seem to think it’s an issue of ‘when not if’ with bore scoring. So yeh for me, I’d rather have peace of mind.
Went to see this today it didn’t realise how good they look in the flesh. Not actually seen many of these on the road. I’m even think the standard body looks as good as the wide body C4.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210150...
Also the 911 forum - one of the guys posted a quote on the 997.1 from Hartech themselves, and they seem to think it’s an issue of ‘when not if’ with bore scoring. So yeh for me, I’d rather have peace of mind.
Went to see this today it didn’t realise how good they look in the flesh. Not actually seen many of these on the road. I’m even think the standard body looks as good as the wide body C4.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210150...
Tobermory said:
C2S comes with PASM as standard.
Bose is worth having
I’m not sure I’d be too fussed with sports chrono though, I’ve yet to meet anyone who actually uses it!
The sound really is different between the gen 1 and the DFI.
These cars are all about the experience and so for me 2wd gen 1 3.8. manual is pretty much the sweet spot.
Bose is worth having
I’m not sure I’d be too fussed with sports chrono though, I’ve yet to meet anyone who actually uses it!
The sound really is different between the gen 1 and the DFI.
These cars are all about the experience and so for me 2wd gen 1 3.8. manual is pretty much the sweet spot.
treetops said:
It may have been said already but a 987.1 Boxster S is getting towards a third of the price of a decent 997.1.
From the seats forward the two cars are pretty much the same. And the plus is the Boxster is a better handling car!
Boxsters are an equal amount of fun etc. and shouldn’t be discounted. If your hearts is set on a 997.1 then fine, but as Box S owner myself I would definitely consider one.
Yeh open tops aren’t for me otherwise. Might be different if I lived in Monaco tho… a Boxter 🕷 looks pretty badassFrom the seats forward the two cars are pretty much the same. And the plus is the Boxster is a better handling car!
Boxsters are an equal amount of fun etc. and shouldn’t be discounted. If your hearts is set on a 997.1 then fine, but as Box S owner myself I would definitely consider one.
Yeh love the spec (just a shame no chrono).
However mileage too high for me. I’d rather pay more for a low miler
However mileage too high for me. I’d rather pay more for a low miler
ATM said:
RiccardoG said:
Thanks for the insights, great to hear from an owner and exchange thoughts, what PH is all about! This would be the wife's car and I'd keep my 997 (.1 with "dodgy engine" ). The points you highlight re the M2 are actually in favour for my intended use case, essentially family car with the upside of serious performance on occasion and being special by virtue of an M-car. Really need to test some come next year and see if I can stomach running costs of a second performance car.
Good luck with the search on the 911 front!
Thanks man, 😂 997.1 with a dodgy engine? Naa it’s high performance, means it need more tlc! ). The points you highlight re the M2 are actually in favour for my intended use case, essentially family car with the upside of serious performance on occasion and being special by virtue of an M-car. Really need to test some come next year and see if I can stomach running costs of a second performance car.Good luck with the search on the 911 front!
cabbalisticar said:
Don't discount the Gen 2 3.6. I think it sounds sweeter than the 3.8 and has a nice, revvy character. Personally, I think it's quick enough. Ultimately, it's 3.6 versus 3.8 of exactly the same engine. It's not a huge difference.
Yeh to be honest I’m not too fussed either way with 3.6 or 3.8 - it’s more fun driving a car fast with less power as opposed to a fast car slowly.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff