Are 997 gen 1 / gen 2s over priced?

[ATM]

rossfitz said:

Andyoz said:

ATM said:

This looks like a great buy if you like a bit of blue leather.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14160626

Polar silver too which is nice. 2005 so lower tax band. Potential bargain there

Agree. Great buy. Someone will snap this up if you ask me.

We'll see

[anonymous-user]

Andyoz said:

Just look at the 997 shape compared to modern messes. I think they're worth it.

They were designed in an era when car designers knew when to bloody put the pencil down once they'd nailed it.

Yes, it's funny but it can appear a bit underwhelming in photos, but in the flesh it's a genuine turn and look over your shoulder as you walk away in the car park car. It's a stunningly coherent bit of design.

[shuebc]

I like to have the full history of the car for the sake of future provenance.
Like everything - for the more documentation something has - the more valuable something is.

stuckmojo said:

why would you care about service history - as long as the car is straight - if you want to rebuild it? You'd be replacing all the wear and tear and service bits anyway?

[shuebc]

lol - What Car does value it at that price - And I think them being a car magazine thats probably been around longer than you and I - is probably something worth listening to. Whether you agree or not - thats something else, and as you've said - you won't consider it - which is fine by me.

STiG911 said:

Ah. So you're the comedian who emailed me over the weekend offering me £15K for my 997 and making it sound like you'd be doing me a favour, 'because What Car says that's what it's worth'

You're funny. Not.

[shuebc]

AyBee said:

I've been watching the 997.1 market for a while and whilst I feel like it's toppy, but then cars still seem to be selling, so I must be in the minority. There seems to be a huge range of pricing though, everything from non-rebuilt cars at £18k, to Hartech'd cars at £25k to non-Hartech'd at £40k+.

Yeh I mean Hartech rebuild at £25k I'd say is a great deal.

But a non-rebuild car at even £20k I personally think is defo not worth it unless its a low mileage / low number of owners.

I know a fair few people will disagree - each to their own.

Yeh just wanted to get a feel for what people think - seems a lot of different opinions.

[shuebc]

yeh there's a really good one selling from AMS - they did the rebuild themselves with Hartech parts. £26k - seems fair but would have preferred if the rebuild was done by Hartech themselves - (not to detract from AMS reputation - they seem like a decent outfit.)

FilH said:

Been watching the prices for a bit, mainly .1 C2S . And they are all over the place.

Some have been forsale for a long time.

Some people are bonkers with the prices tho , the silver on on AT with evidence of bore scoring hence discounted price at 22k. Tho it was serviced 100miles ago ( like thats important! )

I do like the 21k car on AT with the brown leather ( might not be to everyones taste? ) But 1 owner, fsh and notes rms and other bits being replaced.

Then you have others at 30k that im guessing are really nice or the owners aren't too fussed at selling just yet.

[shuebc]

Daston said:

I paid £40k for our Gen 2 S manual, getting one with the manual box and not PDK was a challenge plus the start of 2021 the prices were high. I am the 2nd owner of the car and it's just done 60k miles so I don't think it was a crazy price to pay especially as the dealer threw a new clutch in and aircon condensors.

Yeh to be honest I completely believe the gen 2 prices are worth the money - my issue I guess is with gen 1 prices.

There's an immaculate gen 2 up for sale for £40k - and I think it's absolutely worth it. But thats something thats properly sorted - vs gen 1s with all the very very expensive pitfalls

[anonymous-user]

I think you have take the price of the car, add on a rebuild and then see what else you could get for the money.

In my car that would make about £35k which would get you an immaculate sorts car with the perfect balance of power, use ability (rear seats) and possibly the best iteration of 911 steering that they made.

What else could you buy for that price?

R8- no rear seats, arguably not as engaging
360’s at least £10k more, 2 seats only and almost certainly higher running costs
Evora - possibly but more fragile
I8 - maybe but again not as engaging and complex to service
NSX- 2 seats and getting expensive now

So no, I don’t think 997’s are overpriced at all, just misunderstood

[shuebc]

https://www.amsporsche.com/99736manual

Here's the one I think is probably priced very fairly.

[anonymous-user]

shuebc said:

Yeh to be honest I completely believe the gen 2 prices are worth the money - my issue I guess is with gen 1 prices.

There's an immaculate gen 2 up for sale for £40k - and I think it's absolutely worth it. But thats something thats properly sorted - vs gen 1s with all the very very expensive pitfalls

If an immaculate gen 2 is worth 40k why isn’t an immaculate gen 1 at 25k even better value?

You got plenty to cover the cost of a rebuild but it’s not definitely going to need one and they sound great.

[shuebc]

Yeh I think the thing that bugs me is the bore scoring on gen 1 - I really don't know if it's just the internet blowing up the issue - or it genuinely is an issue that will eventually happen.

There's a video I watched saying the most cold climate 997 gen1s have bore scoring issue - where as hot climate 997 have literally no issue (from the an American Porsche specialist).

So considering we're in Uk - I'm a bit more wary of the whole bore scoring thing.

I get all cars have theirs quirks and issues - but when its the engine literally blowing up (or wearing itself down) when the whole point of a Porsche is performance driving - thats when I'm a bit wary.

I think the thing with gen 1 at £35k - I see it being way way overpriced - as several high mileage (80k milers) gen 2's have sold for £32-33k at auctions.
And a few more k - I'd be in a lowish mileage gen 2.

Tobermory said:

I think you have take the price of the car, add on a rebuild and then see what else you could get for the money.

In my car that would make about £35k which would get you an immaculate sorts car with the perfect balance of power, use ability (rear seats) and possibly the best iteration of 911 steering that they made.

What else could you buy for that price?

R8- no rear seats, arguably not as engaging
360’s at least £10k more, 2 seats only and almost certainly higher running costs
Evora - possibly but more fragile
I8 - maybe but again not as engaging and complex to service
NSX- 2 seats and getting expensive now

So no, I don’t think 997’s are overpriced at all, just misunderstood

[Daston]

Tobermory said:

I think you have take the price of the car, add on a rebuild and then see what else you could get for the money.

In my car that would make about £35k which would get you an immaculate sorts car with the perfect balance of power, use ability (rear seats) and possibly the best iteration of 911 steering that they made.

What else could you buy for that price?

R8- no rear seats, arguably not as engaging
360’s at least £10k more, 2 seats only and almost certainly higher running costs
Evora - possibly but more fragile
I8 - maybe but again not as engaging and complex to service
NSX- 2 seats and getting expensive now

So no, I don’t think 997’s are overpriced at all, just misunderstood

The only thing that I looked at other than the 997 was an Evora (rear seats were useless) and the GTR which was massive and not as engagine (plus the service costs are really really high).

[shuebc]

Its more the fact that lets say I got an immaculate gen 1. The bore scoring - which is most likely to happen at some point - will be £10k for Hartech (full rebuild obviously).

So that essentially becomes a 35k car - for a gen 1...

Just had another look and Portiacraft are selling a 50k miler gen 2 at £39k - so thats why I feel gen 1's are way overpriced.

there's a even a high mileage 991 for £39k.

Anyway just think anyone wants to seriously sell their gen 1s then in my opinion I just think £25k is way too much for a car without a rebuild.

Tobermory said:

If an immaculate gen 2 is worth 40k why isn’t an immaculate gen 1 at 25k even better value?

You got plenty to cover the cost of a rebuild but it’s not definitely going to need one and they sound great.

[shuebc]

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price...

991 - at £39k (100k miler)
so if we say £5-10k premium for each generation.

991 - I might be wrong - but also pretty darn reliable
997.2 - has relatively no issues
997.1 - has major issues that eventually occur (so unless we're looking at a rebuilt engine - £25k is very pricey for a non rebuild)

Anyway just my opinion. I guess I just gotta wait til prices drop or cough up the premium for a gen 2.

[braddo]

shuebc said:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price...

991 - at £39k (100k miler)
so if we say £5-10k premium for each generation.

991 - I might be wrong - but also pretty darn reliable
997.2 - has relatively no issues
997.1 - has major issues that eventually occur (so unless we're looking at a rebuilt engine - £25k is very pricey for a non rebuild)

Anyway just my opinion. I guess I just gotta wait til prices drop or cough up the premium for a gen 2.

You sound like a couple of guys on the Lotus subforum who wasted years waiting for Evoras to hit £20k and the day never came.

997s (and 996s) have passed the trough of their values and will not return to it.

[anonymous-user]

braddo said:

shuebc said:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price...

991 - at £39k (100k miler)
so if we say £5-10k premium for each generation.

991 - I might be wrong - but also pretty darn reliable
997.2 - has relatively no issues
997.1 - has major issues that eventually occur (so unless we're looking at a rebuilt engine - £25k is very pricey for a non rebuild)

Anyway just my opinion. I guess I just gotta wait til prices drop or cough up the premium for a gen 2.

You sound like a couple of guys on the Lotus subforum who wasted years waiting for Evoras to hit £20k and the day never came.

997s (and 996s) have passed the trough of their values and will not return to it.

These cars are now approaching the stage where it’s less about having the latest thing: people will compare a 997 and a 991 and many will come to the conclusion that for the driving experience the previous generation is better. That’s certainly my view having driven both.

Comparing the .1 to the .2 comes down to your attitude to risk, but it is not the case that every car will need rebuilding at all. The .2 is certainly the safer option but I still maintain that a non rebuilt 25k .1 is good value. Each to their own though? I had a BMW 650i V8 before which I ran from 20,000 to 110,000 miles, never drank oil or needs the valve stem seals doing, despite what the received wisdom on the internet would have you believe.

[Filibuster]

Jeez.....

You are really overcomplicating things OP. Just buy the car you want!

[ATM]

shuebc said:

Its more the fact that lets say I got an immaculate gen 1. The bore scoring - which is most likely to happen at some point - will be £10k for Hartech (full rebuild obviously).

So that essentially becomes a 35k car - for a gen 1...

Just had another look and Portiacraft are selling a 50k miler gen 2 at £39k - so thats why I feel gen 1's are way overpriced.

there's a even a high mileage 991 for £39k.

Anyway just think anyone wants to seriously sell their gen 1s then in my opinion I just think £25k is way too much for a car without a rebuild.

Tobermory said:

A full Hartech job is 15k not 10k. You need to readjust all this maths.

If an immaculate gen 2 is worth 40k why isn’t an immaculate gen 1 at 25k even better value?

You got plenty to cover the cost of a rebuild but it’s not definitely going to need one and they sound great.

[Murph7355]

Filibuster said:

Jeez.....

You are really overcomplicating things OP. Just buy the car you want!

+1

25k, 30k .1s are overpriced. 36k, 40k .2s aren't. Go buy a .2.

If you don't have the budget, buy something else altogether.

You don't want to buy a car that will worry you every time you drive it. No point. So either up the budget, or walk away from 911s

And no end of posts on here are going to make sellers drop their prices. A deal takes a committed seller AND a committed buyer.

[RiccardoG]

Murph7355 said:

Filibuster said:

Jeez.....

You are really overcomplicating things OP. Just buy the car you want!

+1

25k, 30k .1s are overpriced. 36k, 40k .2s aren't. Go buy a .2.

If you don't have the budget, buy something else altogether.

You don't want to buy a car that will worry you every time you drive it. No point. So either up the budget, or walk away from 911s

And no end of posts on here are going to make sellers drop their prices. A deal takes a committed seller AND a committed buyer.

+3!!

Agreed, OP comes through as not having enough budget for a later car while being st scared of a .1 in case the engine has issues. Any 15+ yr car has a potential for engine issues.