Are 997 gen 1 / gen 2s over priced?
Discussion
Yeh defo, would have preferred a gen 2 but budget won’t allow. And some ways kinda a good thing, means I can make a more unique build with a gen 1, knowing I’ve got potential big expenses.
Tobermory said:
I did 300 miles in mine in appalling weather going to a conference, I can’t think of many sports cars that would have been so sure footed in those conditions.
Whichever version you end up getting, provided you go in with your eyes open you won’t be disappointed.
Whichever version you end up getting, provided you go in with your eyes open you won’t be disappointed.
Edited by Tobermory on Thursday 17th November 23:06
Yeh nice, but overpriced a bit in my opinion - on collecting cars at 90k miler went for 31.5k a couple of months back on a gen 2.
Below has 40k less miles too
.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210150747077
Below has 40k less miles too
.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210150747077
ATM said:
Yeh true - white isn’t a C4 or an S.
Yeh fair point - didn’t read the new engine bit.
A one odd thing - that’s 3 gen 2s I’ve come across with complete engine replacements… was under the impression they were bullet proof the 997.2s.
Rarely hear about engine replacements on other sports cars.
Yeh fair point - didn’t read the new engine bit.
A one odd thing - that’s 3 gen 2s I’ve come across with complete engine replacements… was under the impression they were bullet proof the 997.2s.
Rarely hear about engine replacements on other sports cars.
There's are a few reasons why 997.2's are rapidly increasing in value:
- One of the last Porsche 911's made under full Porsche ownership (yes I know the 991 was designed under Porsche ownership, but the build quality of 997.2s iswidely regarded as a little better than the 991)
- Doesn't have EPS
- 6-speed manual available
- Bore scoring less likely
- Size
- Classic analogue car feel, with modern enough underpinnings
- Relatively rare as they came out in the last recession
Many people covet the looks. Me included. I wanted a widebody (for the looks and the surefootedness), N/A, manual car, but didn't have quite enough money for a GTS, so went for a 4S. In many ways it's the perfect car. 385bhp is just about as much anyone can use on the road and I'm not losing any money using it each summer. Stunning car.
- One of the last Porsche 911's made under full Porsche ownership (yes I know the 991 was designed under Porsche ownership, but the build quality of 997.2s iswidely regarded as a little better than the 991)
- Doesn't have EPS
- 6-speed manual available
- Bore scoring less likely
- Size
- Classic analogue car feel, with modern enough underpinnings
- Relatively rare as they came out in the last recession
Many people covet the looks. Me included. I wanted a widebody (for the looks and the surefootedness), N/A, manual car, but didn't have quite enough money for a GTS, so went for a 4S. In many ways it's the perfect car. 385bhp is just about as much anyone can use on the road and I'm not losing any money using it each summer. Stunning car.
shuebc said:
Yeh defo a good project car, if it was a bit cheaper to right up there for a full on refresh
A full on refresh can cost muchos dinerosATM said:
Engine - 15k
Gearbox - yes these are made of chocolate - 4k
Clutch and Flywheel - 1.5k
Suspension refresh - 5k
Coolant cross over pipe - 1.5k
All other pipes and tubes - 2.5k
Carbon Ceramic brakes - 5k to 15k - left till last as I have no idea really just guessing
So you could easily spend twice the cost of the basic car getting this fettled and that's before you start on wheels, paint and interior
shuebc said:
Be interesting to see what this goes for…
Usually they bids head high a few hours before close of auction.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2006-porsche-9...
OP, what are your 2p on this sale price? Did you bid on it or even buy it?Usually they bids head high a few hours before close of auction.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2006-porsche-9...
Filibuster said:
shuebc said:
Be interesting to see what this goes for…
Usually they bids head high a few hours before close of auction.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2006-porsche-9...
OP, what are your 2p on this sale price? Did you bid on it or even buy it?Usually they bids head high a few hours before close of auction.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2006-porsche-9...
I’d say engine 10k (or 11k from Hartech) with a two year guarantee.
Brakes I’d forego and keep OEM (since it’s a consumable I won’t count that)
Suspension refresh - again depends on mileage and how it rides, being a Porsche I’m guessing that prob won’t need a refresh until 150k miles plus? Don’t know.
In my head anyway 15k give or take another 2k is plenty to get something that is mechanically perfect, with some tasteful visual mods (more just headlights/ducktail/steering wheel re trim/ modern stereo system (CarPlay) - essentially 5-7k on everything else excluding engine.
But yeh I hear you… I pretty wary of going for it. I’m in an immaculate low mileage M2 1 owner… so would be a big change in every front… especially from a reliability perspective.
Brakes I’d forego and keep OEM (since it’s a consumable I won’t count that)
Suspension refresh - again depends on mileage and how it rides, being a Porsche I’m guessing that prob won’t need a refresh until 150k miles plus? Don’t know.
In my head anyway 15k give or take another 2k is plenty to get something that is mechanically perfect, with some tasteful visual mods (more just headlights/ducktail/steering wheel re trim/ modern stereo system (CarPlay) - essentially 5-7k on everything else excluding engine.
But yeh I hear you… I pretty wary of going for it. I’m in an immaculate low mileage M2 1 owner… so would be a big change in every front… especially from a reliability perspective.
ATM said:
A full on refresh can cost muchos dineros
Engine - 15k
Gearbox - yes these are made of chocolate - 4k
Clutch and Flywheel - 1.5k
Suspension refresh - 5k
Coolant cross over pipe - 1.5k
All other pipes and tubes - 2.5k
Carbon Ceramic brakes - 5k to 15k - left till last as I have no idea really just guessing
So you could easily spend twice the cost of the basic car getting this fettled and that's before you start on wheels, paint and interior
Engine - 15k
Gearbox - yes these are made of chocolate - 4k
Clutch and Flywheel - 1.5k
Suspension refresh - 5k
Coolant cross over pipe - 1.5k
All other pipes and tubes - 2.5k
Carbon Ceramic brakes - 5k to 15k - left till last as I have no idea really just guessing
So you could easily spend twice the cost of the basic car getting this fettled and that's before you start on wheels, paint and interior
Filibuster said:
OP, what are your 2p on this sale price? Did you bid on it or even buy it?
No didn’t bid. For me it is a bit high… but people are paying so who am I to judge.It all comes down to engine bore scoring risk… honestly if bore scoring wasn’t a thing - 22k would be bargain for what the 997 is.
22k can easily become 32k plus with an engine rebuild
Looked nice a nice specimen tho… but wouldn’t have bided because of the parrot thing that’s fitted… I’m assuming there’s a hole in the original dash… non OEM parts aren’t for me.
There’s a gen 2 from portiacraft that looks like a very fairly priced car… just too much of stretch for me right now
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211161...
shuebc said:
I’d say engine 10k (or 11k from Hartech) with a two year guarantee.
Brakes I’d forego and keep OEM (since it’s a consumable I won’t count that)
Suspension refresh - again depends on mileage and how it rides, being a Porsche I’m guessing that prob won’t need a refresh until 150k miles plus? Don’t know.
In my head anyway 15k give or take another 2k is plenty to get something that is mechanically perfect, with some tasteful visual mods (more just headlights/ducktail/steering wheel re trim/ modern stereo system (CarPlay) - essentially 5-7k on everything else excluding engine.
But yeh I hear you… I pretty wary of going for it. I’m in an immaculate low mileage M2 1 owner… so would be a big change in every front… especially from a reliability perspective.
You need to take note of the real-world costs that are being mentioned on this thread if you want something mechanically perfect plus with styling mods. Your estimate is way undercooked. A cheap car plus what you want to budget for is £40k+, Brakes I’d forego and keep OEM (since it’s a consumable I won’t count that)
Suspension refresh - again depends on mileage and how it rides, being a Porsche I’m guessing that prob won’t need a refresh until 150k miles plus? Don’t know.
In my head anyway 15k give or take another 2k is plenty to get something that is mechanically perfect, with some tasteful visual mods (more just headlights/ducktail/steering wheel re trim/ modern stereo system (CarPlay) - essentially 5-7k on everything else excluding engine.
But yeh I hear you… I pretty wary of going for it. I’m in an immaculate low mileage M2 1 owner… so would be a big change in every front… especially from a reliability perspective.
braddo said:
shuebc said:
I’d say engine 10k (or 11k from Hartech) with a two year guarantee.
Brakes I’d forego and keep OEM (since it’s a consumable I won’t count that)
Suspension refresh - again depends on mileage and how it rides, being a Porsche I’m guessing that prob won’t need a refresh until 150k miles plus? Don’t know.
In my head anyway 15k give or take another 2k is plenty to get something that is mechanically perfect, with some tasteful visual mods (more just headlights/ducktail/steering wheel re trim/ modern stereo system (CarPlay) - essentially 5-7k on everything else excluding engine.
But yeh I hear you… I pretty wary of going for it. I’m in an immaculate low mileage M2 1 owner… so would be a big change in every front… especially from a reliability perspective.
You need to take note of the real-world costs that are being mentioned on this thread if you want something mechanically perfect plus with styling mods. Your estimate is way undercooked. A cheap car plus what you want to budget for is £40k+, Brakes I’d forego and keep OEM (since it’s a consumable I won’t count that)
Suspension refresh - again depends on mileage and how it rides, being a Porsche I’m guessing that prob won’t need a refresh until 150k miles plus? Don’t know.
In my head anyway 15k give or take another 2k is plenty to get something that is mechanically perfect, with some tasteful visual mods (more just headlights/ducktail/steering wheel re trim/ modern stereo system (CarPlay) - essentially 5-7k on everything else excluding engine.
But yeh I hear you… I pretty wary of going for it. I’m in an immaculate low mileage M2 1 owner… so would be a big change in every front… especially from a reliability perspective.
OP, you've gone down the rabbit hole of assuming you WILL need an engine rebuild. This is a bad place to be. I know, I was there in 2001 with my 964. I assumed it would need one, sold it in the end (also for other reasons, but the thought niggled me every time I was in it). And, unless its already broken, no vendor will agree with you, so you WILL be disappointed when searching.
Genuinely suggest you don't get a 997. If you're used to a new-ish BMW a 15yr old 911 will be several times more expensive to run (if not to own, as depreciation is very low).
Genuinely suggest you don't get a 997. If you're used to a new-ish BMW a 15yr old 911 will be several times more expensive to run (if not to own, as depreciation is very low).
OP, I have told you before, that you are overthinking this.
As RiccardoG has stated correctly, you assume from the very beginning that a non rebuilt 996/997 will need an engine revision. Maybe, maybe not.
The failure rate is not 100%. It might be high, but without wanting to start an argument about exact numbers that probably no one will be able to provide, it is a fact that not every M96/7 needs a rebuild @100k miles.
And your milkmaid bill that the value of every 997 need to factor in the cost of a rebuilt and thus every 997.1 that hasn't had one prior is £10k to high is simply wrong. Common sense as well as the market values clearly show this.
Expecting a 997.1 to be cheaper than they already are is wishful thinking. Compare the blue Portiacraft 997.2 C2 and the CC 997.1 C2: They have comparable mileage and are essentially the same car. The blue one is almost double the price!
While I'm 100% with you regarding non oem installs, those parrot display usually are just stock on and the cable is routed between the air vent and the dash. And if you really cared, why didn't you ask the seller?
It honestly sounds as if the 997.1 is not the car that makes you happy.
At this point, I have to refrain from my earlier advice of just buying a 997 if this is what you want. I think you would honestly worry too much to enjoy the car.
I haven't read every post of yours, but have you driven a 997? What do you like about the 997? Why does it have to be a 997?
Instead of fixating solely on the price, it might be worth thinking about why it has to be a 997. Maybe a 987.2 Cayman would make you more happy? Or an early 996? Or a BMW 1M? Or BMW M2?
As RiccardoG has stated correctly, you assume from the very beginning that a non rebuilt 996/997 will need an engine revision. Maybe, maybe not.
The failure rate is not 100%. It might be high, but without wanting to start an argument about exact numbers that probably no one will be able to provide, it is a fact that not every M96/7 needs a rebuild @100k miles.
And your milkmaid bill that the value of every 997 need to factor in the cost of a rebuilt and thus every 997.1 that hasn't had one prior is £10k to high is simply wrong. Common sense as well as the market values clearly show this.
Expecting a 997.1 to be cheaper than they already are is wishful thinking. Compare the blue Portiacraft 997.2 C2 and the CC 997.1 C2: They have comparable mileage and are essentially the same car. The blue one is almost double the price!
While I'm 100% with you regarding non oem installs, those parrot display usually are just stock on and the cable is routed between the air vent and the dash. And if you really cared, why didn't you ask the seller?
It honestly sounds as if the 997.1 is not the car that makes you happy.
At this point, I have to refrain from my earlier advice of just buying a 997 if this is what you want. I think you would honestly worry too much to enjoy the car.
I haven't read every post of yours, but have you driven a 997? What do you like about the 997? Why does it have to be a 997?
Instead of fixating solely on the price, it might be worth thinking about why it has to be a 997. Maybe a 987.2 Cayman would make you more happy? Or an early 996? Or a BMW 1M? Or BMW M2?
As a serial 911 owner i except that all of them are flawed and just make sure i have more enjoyment than heart break.
We swapped back from a 991 to a 997.1 because we preferred the smaller and more fun chassis. We used ours without regard to mileage and replaced anything that needed doing without complaining as we bought the car cheap back in 2016. Bear in mind back then a BMW x5 was about 70 grand before it depreciates.
The dreaded bore score came along at 94k miles and we bit the bullet and had a rebuild. Rest of the car is in excellent shape. At 105,000 miles my wife still uses it daily and enjoys it. We get admiring comments whenever its parked up, i can't think of anything that would be enjoyable for the outlay.
We previously had a number of 911 dailies , 2.0S, 2.2S, 2.4S, several SC's , 964 Carrera 4, 964 RS, 991 and hands done the best allrounder back road bruiser that can cruise to Paris for the weekend in comfort and mix it with bigger boys is the 997.
We tried a few 997.2's but the engine noise was a bit drone like and we didnt see the real world gain for the extra 20 grand. we dont give a stuff about resale value because there's no need to sell it unless they change the goalposts on emissions beyond reason.
We swapped back from a 991 to a 997.1 because we preferred the smaller and more fun chassis. We used ours without regard to mileage and replaced anything that needed doing without complaining as we bought the car cheap back in 2016. Bear in mind back then a BMW x5 was about 70 grand before it depreciates.
The dreaded bore score came along at 94k miles and we bit the bullet and had a rebuild. Rest of the car is in excellent shape. At 105,000 miles my wife still uses it daily and enjoys it. We get admiring comments whenever its parked up, i can't think of anything that would be enjoyable for the outlay.
We previously had a number of 911 dailies , 2.0S, 2.2S, 2.4S, several SC's , 964 Carrera 4, 964 RS, 991 and hands done the best allrounder back road bruiser that can cruise to Paris for the weekend in comfort and mix it with bigger boys is the 997.
We tried a few 997.2's but the engine noise was a bit drone like and we didnt see the real world gain for the extra 20 grand. we dont give a stuff about resale value because there's no need to sell it unless they change the goalposts on emissions beyond reason.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff