Keep TC on for trackdays in your Porsche?
Discussion
Panamax said:
One point worth noting is that these systems are banned from most forms of professional racing. There's a reason for that.
They are allowed e.g. in V-type classes in NLS/VLN. We also run a 2.5T Cayman (and did other naturally aspirated ones in the past). The systems work brilliantly both, on slicks (in Sport Plus) and on wets (in Sport). Also the pros keep them onOlivera said:
Caddyshack said:
I think the on limit handling is the key to going faster as once you lose the fear of it sliding you can try many more options and push much harder knowing that you can gather it up if is goes wrong.
Thoroughly agree, only by practicing over the limit car control (with all systems off) can you develop real driving skills.It's telling to me that when someone posts up a crash video involving oversteer there's usually a layman's inquest into every possible reason why the car might have lost grip - the conditions, the tyres, too much throttle, ad infinitum. Yet in many cases if they knew how to control the car over the limit of grip then they'd simply have collected it up and continued off down the road.
I will make sure I teach my daughter.
My dad took me out in his 528i bmw e28 with l plates on at 17. He made sure I could slide on wet roundabouts I can remember him saying “it’s gonna happen when I am not in the car so you need to show me you can handle it when I am”. We moved ion to lift off oversteer in an mg metro when I passed my test.
Caddyshack said:
I think the on limit handling is the key to going faster as once you lose the fear of it sliding you can try many more options and push much harder knowing that you can gather it up if is goes wrong.
I used to wish for wet track days and that is a bonus in the UK.
Don Palmers' "wetter the better" course was brilliant at Mira, We learned so much there and then on to Bedford for hours and hours sliding about as they used to almost encourage it when it first opened.
We used to take a pick up truck as our back up wagon (Mk1 Golf Caddy with 1.8t engine swap) with spare wheels in the back as it was common to do 2 or 3 sets of tyres in a day.
I have done a lot of spins in various 993 Rs over the years...they are a little bit too valuable to go bonkers in now though.
Absolutely re your point on limit handling. We spent loads of time at Bruntingthorpe where even oversteer at 3 figure speeds gave you nothing to hit if you messed up. Then when it happens on the confines of the track (or the road if it where to happen) your reactions are completely intuitive. I did a day at Mira with Don at the 'wetter the better' and did not get on with him. My tuition was from a great guy from Leeds called Paul Ripley who was a car control master, along with being a Diamond ROSPA instructor and many other accolades. Fabulous guy, great fun and personality and I was like a sponge in my 20's just soaking up the tuition! Many happy and enjoyable years in the early 90's learning limit handling and defensive driving techniques.I used to wish for wet track days and that is a bonus in the UK.
Don Palmers' "wetter the better" course was brilliant at Mira, We learned so much there and then on to Bedford for hours and hours sliding about as they used to almost encourage it when it first opened.
We used to take a pick up truck as our back up wagon (Mk1 Golf Caddy with 1.8t engine swap) with spare wheels in the back as it was common to do 2 or 3 sets of tyres in a day.
I have done a lot of spins in various 993 Rs over the years...they are a little bit too valuable to go bonkers in now though.
Edited by Caddyshack on Monday 28th November 15:21
993rsr said:
Caddyshack said:
I think the on limit handling is the key to going faster as once you lose the fear of it sliding you can try many more options and push much harder knowing that you can gather it up if is goes wrong.
I used to wish for wet track days and that is a bonus in the UK.
Don Palmers' "wetter the better" course was brilliant at Mira, We learned so much there and then on to Bedford for hours and hours sliding about as they used to almost encourage it when it first opened.
We used to take a pick up truck as our back up wagon (Mk1 Golf Caddy with 1.8t engine swap) with spare wheels in the back as it was common to do 2 or 3 sets of tyres in a day.
I have done a lot of spins in various 993 Rs over the years...they are a little bit too valuable to go bonkers in now though.
Absolutely re your point on limit handling. We spent loads of time at Bruntingthorpe where even oversteer at 3 figure speeds gave you nothing to hit if you messed up. Then when it happens on the confines of the track (or the road if it where to happen) your reactions are completely intuitive. I did a day at Mira with Don at the 'wetter the better' and did not get on with him. My tuition was from a great guy from Leeds called Paul Ripley who was a car control master, along with being a Diamond ROSPA instructor and many other accolades. Fabulous guy, great fun and personality and I was like a sponge in my 20's just soaking up the tuition! Many happy and enjoyable years in the early 90's learning limit handling and defensive driving techniques.I used to wish for wet track days and that is a bonus in the UK.
Don Palmers' "wetter the better" course was brilliant at Mira, We learned so much there and then on to Bedford for hours and hours sliding about as they used to almost encourage it when it first opened.
We used to take a pick up truck as our back up wagon (Mk1 Golf Caddy with 1.8t engine swap) with spare wheels in the back as it was common to do 2 or 3 sets of tyres in a day.
I have done a lot of spins in various 993 Rs over the years...they are a little bit too valuable to go bonkers in now though.
Edited by Caddyshack on Monday 28th November 15:21
Caddyshack said:
993rsr said:
Caddyshack said:
I think the on limit handling is the key to going faster as once you lose the fear of it sliding you can try many more options and push much harder knowing that you can gather it up if is goes wrong.
I used to wish for wet track days and that is a bonus in the UK.
Don Palmers' "wetter the better" course was brilliant at Mira, We learned so much there and then on to Bedford for hours and hours sliding about as they used to almost encourage it when it first opened.
We used to take a pick up truck as our back up wagon (Mk1 Golf Caddy with 1.8t engine swap) with spare wheels in the back as it was common to do 2 or 3 sets of tyres in a day.
I have done a lot of spins in various 993 Rs over the years...they are a little bit too valuable to go bonkers in now though.
Absolutely re your point on limit handling. We spent loads of time at Bruntingthorpe where even oversteer at 3 figure speeds gave you nothing to hit if you messed up. Then when it happens on the confines of the track (or the road if it where to happen) your reactions are completely intuitive. I did a day at Mira with Don at the 'wetter the better' and did not get on with him. My tuition was from a great guy from Leeds called Paul Ripley who was a car control master, along with being a Diamond ROSPA instructor and many other accolades. Fabulous guy, great fun and personality and I was like a sponge in my 20's just soaking up the tuition! Many happy and enjoyable years in the early 90's learning limit handling and defensive driving techniques.I used to wish for wet track days and that is a bonus in the UK.
Don Palmers' "wetter the better" course was brilliant at Mira, We learned so much there and then on to Bedford for hours and hours sliding about as they used to almost encourage it when it first opened.
We used to take a pick up truck as our back up wagon (Mk1 Golf Caddy with 1.8t engine swap) with spare wheels in the back as it was common to do 2 or 3 sets of tyres in a day.
I have done a lot of spins in various 993 Rs over the years...they are a little bit too valuable to go bonkers in now though.
Edited by Caddyshack on Monday 28th November 15:21
I agree that sliding wet and slow is safer ... just keep it off the grass / most paint / and preferably run on normal road tyres ... start slow and build it up ... this also gets the tyres warm ...
ChrisW. said:
Caddyshack said:
993rsr said:
Caddyshack said:
I think the on limit handling is the key to going faster as once you lose the fear of it sliding you can try many more options and push much harder knowing that you can gather it up if is goes wrong.
I used to wish for wet track days and that is a bonus in the UK.
Don Palmers' "wetter the better" course was brilliant at Mira, We learned so much there and then on to Bedford for hours and hours sliding about as they used to almost encourage it when it first opened.
We used to take a pick up truck as our back up wagon (Mk1 Golf Caddy with 1.8t engine swap) with spare wheels in the back as it was common to do 2 or 3 sets of tyres in a day.
I have done a lot of spins in various 993 Rs over the years...they are a little bit too valuable to go bonkers in now though.
Absolutely re your point on limit handling. We spent loads of time at Bruntingthorpe where even oversteer at 3 figure speeds gave you nothing to hit if you messed up. Then when it happens on the confines of the track (or the road if it where to happen) your reactions are completely intuitive. I did a day at Mira with Don at the 'wetter the better' and did not get on with him. My tuition was from a great guy from Leeds called Paul Ripley who was a car control master, along with being a Diamond ROSPA instructor and many other accolades. Fabulous guy, great fun and personality and I was like a sponge in my 20's just soaking up the tuition! Many happy and enjoyable years in the early 90's learning limit handling and defensive driving techniques.I used to wish for wet track days and that is a bonus in the UK.
Don Palmers' "wetter the better" course was brilliant at Mira, We learned so much there and then on to Bedford for hours and hours sliding about as they used to almost encourage it when it first opened.
We used to take a pick up truck as our back up wagon (Mk1 Golf Caddy with 1.8t engine swap) with spare wheels in the back as it was common to do 2 or 3 sets of tyres in a day.
I have done a lot of spins in various 993 Rs over the years...they are a little bit too valuable to go bonkers in now though.
Edited by Caddyshack on Monday 28th November 15:21
I agree that sliding wet and slow is safer ... just keep it off the grass / most paint / and preferably run on normal road tyres ... start slow and build it up ... this also gets the tyres warm ...
I would have thought track day drivers want to learn.
ChrisW. said:
It's not unexpected, but I think we re now starting to probe the boundaries between a hobby and a semi-professional ....
Not at all, limit handling and car control are there to allow you to maintain control 'in extremis' whether that be planned or unplanned! If you are going to exploit anywhere near the potential of your GT car you need to know how to maximize your control window.
I guess it's down to how much time and resource people want to invest ...
Slow is of course relative and the theory and practice of car control is great, but practice is an ongoing exercise.
At the risk of labouring this video from my Racing Cayman, I was a slow racing driver and the PSM was on ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5LTaoat4I
The practicing also assumes plenty of space ....
Slow is of course relative and the theory and practice of car control is great, but practice is an ongoing exercise.
At the risk of labouring this video from my Racing Cayman, I was a slow racing driver and the PSM was on ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5LTaoat4I
The practicing also assumes plenty of space ....
isaldiri said:
Digga said:
If you look at in car videos of these 997 cars, you can often see if the driver's got all boxes ticked, because there will be three LEDs in front of the gear shift, from left to right; suspension in firm mode, sport throttle, TC off.
Uh....in the 997 isn't it just a sports exhaust thing that is mainly irrelevant high revs rather than sport throttle?
Digga said:
No, not so. More aggressive map and sharper throttle response: http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1507345
Can it be that in my 718 GTS the Sport / Sport+ buttons also affect when PSM kicks in? I got the sense that with either of those on, a small slide was possible before the systems interfered. ldn_mx5] said:
Can it be that in my 718 GTS the Sport / Sport+ buttons also affect when PSM kicks in? I got the sense that with either of those on, a small slide was possible before the systems interfered.
Having looked at the Good To Know app..Drive modes do NOT affect PSM mode in your car. They are separate.
PSM Sport is only via the button on the center tunnel console.
If you are getting more slide when changing drive modes… it might be that the extra urgent throttle response is just enough to overcome the tyres in normal mode.
Edited by TDT on Tuesday 29th November 17:19
Digga said:
130R said:
ESC off, TC on is what I have seen pro drivers run with the GT3 RS
I am assuming 991, not 997?Systems are not the same across models and generations.
Edit to add- just re read the OP….718 isn’t and old boxster…I was thinking 981.
GT03ROB said:
Digga said:
130R said:
ESC off, TC on is what I have seen pro drivers run with the GT3 RS
I am assuming 991, not 997?Systems are not the same across models and generations.
Digga said:
GT03ROB said:
Digga said:
130R said:
ESC off, TC on is what I have seen pro drivers run with the GT3 RS
I am assuming 991, not 997?Systems are not the same across models and generations.
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