Discussion
DanH said:I have no personal experience with outfits such as Parr and Barwell - they could be great.
Porsche. I'm wondering if my RS's shift is optimally setup. Its by no means bad, but I'm curious if it couldn't be better - I have no real frame of reference as to what is achievable.
I have had quite a bit of experience with JZ Machtech; Steve, one of the MDs, is an extremely capable technician and a good driver as well. I would have confidence in his judgement - they work on a lot of GT3s.
Alternatively, there is a senior technician at PCGB in Reading, John Titcombe, who is absolutely brilliant. The thing is, PCGB are a large operation and they're not exactly prepared for a customer to say, "I'd like this particular man to check out my car."
verysideways said:
I was recently torn between a 550 and a 993tt as my daily driver - as everyone knows i bought the 993tt, but the biggest problem for me was the 550 running costs for the 20k miles a year i do.
A-la the 550 currently being run by Harry Metcalf in EVO's fast fleet...jeeezus, every month my jaw falls to the flaw with just his tyre costs, but the servicing and general maint bills are astounding (in my meagre little world, anyway!)...Supercar=Superbills
rob05 said:
Maybe i have missed the point of the car and maybe i'll need to have a drive of another one to confirm or change my opinion,i just expected a bit more from a 110k supercar thats all.
Hmmm, interesting. Reminds me of the complete opposite sensation (!!) a few months back whilst at one of Jonathan Palmers Trackday, er, "days"....I've had a Westfield for 12yrs now, now in it's 8th/9th/10th (lost count) evolution and up to about 505-510bhp/ton, know it inside-out and backwards, set up to my driving style, etc, etc...BUT when I drove a very basic (by comparison, not wishing to offend anyone) Caterham Supersport, with (I believe) the K-Series 1600, I had as much fun as I've ever had, despite being approx half the bhp. I was utterly unprepared and shocked by that, it was so damn tactile, communicative....and to be honest, even with instructor, not slow, that I left feeling a little confused. Not gutted, because my car is what I want it to be, full of trick bits, but maybe I've been missing the point a little?
Maybe thats the "subtlety" of the 360? (contradiction in terms Spence, nice one!)....maybe once you live with one and really learn it's secret it becomes a different beast?...just hypothesising of course...
steve rance said:
If you like driving cars buy the 911, if you like talking about driving cars buy the 360.
Thanks for saying what i was thinking Steve.
Spencer, you said it. Mind you, i know what he means about tyres because mine are around the same! £400 every 6k miles, £700 every 12k miles. Still, you only live once...
VS
verysideways said:The difference in maintenance costs on the two cars is perhaps less what it costs to effect a particular service/repair and more the fact that over time so many more things on the Ferrari will go wrong.
550 was delectable but simply not practical for every day use purely on the grounds of maintenance costs.
A 550 is nowhere near as practical as a daily driver as a 993TT. If you live in wide open spaces then you might prefer it for its panache and its gorgeous V12.
It is interesting that the Ferrari started life costing 70% more than the Porsche, and now for equal mileage cars you would pay nearly equal money.
spenny_b said:
If you like driving cars buy the 911, if you like talking about driving cars buy the 360.
Steve R
Sorry, either being incredibly thick or paranoid....was that a poke?....if the latter, I've got a 911 not a 360.
>> Edited by spenny_b on Tuesday 20th September 17:11
Not a poke at all.
Steve
rob05 said:
I had my mates 360 for half a day this weekend,it was my first drive in any ferrari,i regret to say i was'nt that won over.Its been a lifetime of wanting thats come to an abrubt end for me.From the outside the car has the dream going for it,apart from the bus tyers and the small looking wheels.Closer inspection of the pannels and paint job resembles more fiat than ferrari workmanship and its much the same inside cheap sprayed on silver plastics with a dashboard more X19 than anything else.Driving the car is much like any good sports car it takes time to master.In my brief six hours i found the gear change cement like and the driving position difficult to adjust to.The perfomance was the biggest disapointment of the day 400bhp and it felt no quicker than my C2 with 320!The ride was firm but ok,but it was the handling that was the best part for me the feel through the steering and grip levels were unreal.He paid 80k for a 03 model with 5thmls.Am i being to harsh?Anyone driven one,or has one but also drives a 911 too and maybe could give me a different opinion of the car?At the end of the day i wanted one but now i dont and for that money id rather have a 997 C2s and save the rest.PS my friend changed his 4s for it and likes it very much????
>> Edited by rob05 on Monday 19th September 14:59
for an entirely different response, try posting this in the ferrari forum. funny old lot there...
Rob_T said:
I had my mates 360 for half a day this weekend,it was my first drive in any ferrari,i regret to say i was'nt that won over.Its been a lifetime of wanting thats come to an abrubt end for me.From the outside the car has the dream going for it,apart from the bus tyers and the small looking wheels.Closer inspection of the pannels and paint job resembles more fiat than ferrari workmanship and its much the same inside cheap sprayed on silver plastics with a dashboard more X19 than anything else.Driving the car is much like any good sports car it takes time to master.In my brief six hours i found the gear change cement like and the driving position difficult to adjust to.The perfomance was the biggest disapointment of the day 400bhp and it felt no quicker than my C2 with 320!The ride was firm but ok,but it was the handling that was the best part for me the feel through the steering and grip levels were unreal.He paid 80k for a 03 model with 5thmls.Am i being to harsh?Anyone driven one,or has one but also drives a 911 too and maybe could give me a different opinion of the car?At the end of the day i wanted one but now i dont and for that money id rather have a 997 C2s and save the rest.PS my friend changed his 4s for it and likes it very much????
>> Edited by rob05 on Monday 19th September 14:59
for an entirely different response, try posting this in the ferrari forum. funny old lot there...
Or try ferrarichat.com
There was a long thread recently from ex C2 owners who had seen the light and got 355's.
Oddly they all thought the C2 was slow and pants compared to the fezza. Who says car owners aren't objective
I recently drove a 360 - have been considering changing my 996TT.
The Ferrari looks & sounds great, no question, but in terms of performance the 996TT is way ahead.
Even the salesman admitted that the TT was faster "all that torque"
Having also owned a C2 & C4S I would say its about the same performance as a C2, perhaps a little quicker.
The "problem" is that as an all round package the 911 is a very tough act to follow.
The attention the 360 gets is amazing, but I think that would get on my t*ts after a while & I would be paranoid about leaving it anywhere.
Great cars but just not for me at the moment.
Ro.
The Ferrari looks & sounds great, no question, but in terms of performance the 996TT is way ahead.
Even the salesman admitted that the TT was faster "all that torque"
Having also owned a C2 & C4S I would say its about the same performance as a C2, perhaps a little quicker.
The "problem" is that as an all round package the 911 is a very tough act to follow.
The attention the 360 gets is amazing, but I think that would get on my t*ts after a while & I would be paranoid about leaving it anywhere.
Great cars but just not for me at the moment.
Ro.
I can only tell you of my own experience with the 360.Two of my mates have similar opinions in regardes to performance both found the 360 not worth the 400bhp claim.Maybe the one i drove was'nt a good one?As for a 355 i can't comment on how it drives,all i can tell you is for me i would not buy one,next to a 360 it just looks dated.
>> Edited by rob05 on Wednesday 21st September 18:29
>> Edited by rob05 on Wednesday 21st September 18:29
Stuh
The 355 is, I'm sorry to say, in the same category as a tuned Impreza, performance wise. On any road. Been there, many times and each time secretly gutted that it didn't feature, let alone blow me away.
The 360 is considerably better, but as others have said, its brought swiftly down to earth by its comparison with a NA 996/997.
I'd have one, but given the budget, I'd also have to have a fast car in the garage
The 355 is, I'm sorry to say, in the same category as a tuned Impreza, performance wise. On any road. Been there, many times and each time secretly gutted that it didn't feature, let alone blow me away.
The 360 is considerably better, but as others have said, its brought swiftly down to earth by its comparison with a NA 996/997.
I'd have one, but given the budget, I'd also have to have a fast car in the garage
Having owned both of these cars, my verdict is:
911: very capable, reasonably quick, a bit dull, decent daily driver
360: tricky handling, reasonably quick, never failed to make my heart beat faster, fun car.
There's no way the 911 'blows away' the 360, at least not in my hands. With these levels of performance, it's the road that dictates the speed, not the car. They're pretty different propositions; depends what you want from it and what you want to use it for.
Sold the 911 without a second thought. Still regret selling the 360.
911: very capable, reasonably quick, a bit dull, decent daily driver
360: tricky handling, reasonably quick, never failed to make my heart beat faster, fun car.
There's no way the 911 'blows away' the 360, at least not in my hands. With these levels of performance, it's the road that dictates the speed, not the car. They're pretty different propositions; depends what you want from it and what you want to use it for.
Sold the 911 without a second thought. Still regret selling the 360.
Kevin I think you have a point about 911s being a little anodyne. Especially the cooking models. In general a Ferrari seems more of an occasion to me, but then again they are best run as occasional cars
I had to go quite far up the 911 range to find one that had the 'specialness' I was looking for. There's no doubt in my mind that its got it though.
Raven Flyer said:
Stuh
The 355 is, I'm sorry to say, in the same category as a tuned Impreza, performance wise. On any road. Been there, many times and each time secretly gutted that it didn't feature, let alone blow me away.
The 360 is considerably better, but as others have said, its brought swiftly down to earth by its comparison with a NA 996/997.
I'd have one, but given the budget, I'd also have to have a fast car in the garage
If my 355 was as quick as a tuned impreza i'd be dead chuffed
It's certainly not as quick as my previous Noble. It's about on a par with my M3. However to me, the 355 has that special intangible something that makes it just fun to drive, even at 40mph. It's always an event in itself.
As 456MGT rightly says. On current UK roads all these cars performance is dictated by conditions. I've pulled these figures from ultimatecarpage.com. Not much in it, is there? Driver skill will be the biggest determing factor.
F355 4.6s - 183mph
360M 4.3s - 185mph
996 C2 4.9s - 177mph
Impreza P1 - 4.6s - 156mph
Luckily i'm about to chop in my M5 for a 996TT as the daily driver, so i will have something quick in the garage
>> Edited by stuh on Thursday 22 September 06:33
Not sure I agree with some comments on the 360…..
Most 360’s need the following
Camber and tracking adjustment
Gear linkage adjustment
Harder pads..
And miles
Most have 15k miles so most owners are not 100% comfortable with them.. they don’t get driven all the time (no offence) (2k miles per year, you don’t get to know the car…)
I have done over 60k miles in both an F1 and Manual.
Still never got to know the cars…
It is faster than all basic 911 full stop. (never bothered racing on road or track, it was not a contest)
It is as fast as a standard 911 turbo. (Raced several times)
Pound for pound you will need a 911 TT X50 get past a well driven 360. (raced several times, very very close)
GT2 errrrrrrr, there was no contest, I was beaten hands down on a track..
There is nothing between a 911 gt3 and a 360 on track or on road.
It will run with a Gallardo up to a point…
Got destroyed by a Muci, it was not even a contest… but we were on public roads so I did not throw the car into corners… truth is that I could have really troubled it, as it struggled through the roundabouts and sharper bends.. (driver or weight of the car… I don’t know)
Couple years back I was at Donnington and was being chased by a silver 964 RS, for 6 laps, in a standard car, with upgraded pads… his car was modded, but there nothing in it….
It’s a road car. !!!!!
In two cars and 60k miles, mine needed Camber and tracking adjustment, Gear linkage adjustment, two split hose replacements, new cam belt variators, and that’s all.
Yes it felt loose after the miles, but there is no comparism between a 911 c2 and a 360. Sorry.
Leave the F1 alone if you intend putting hard miles on the car.
400 BHP ?
you have to drive the car NEAR the rev limiter, as below 4k rpm it is just cruising, not many people do after 6 months of ownership, its just inviting big bills… (same for any high revving engine.. bike or likewise)
all the fun is at 8k rmp in all gears…
Do that and it flies, Its one of the best value cars out there… at £50k upwards…
I will not even bother going into the wow factor, the noise with a tubi, nor the reaction from the opposite sex.
You could not buy more FUN. !!!!!
>> Edited by okey on Thursday 22 September 10:16
>> Edited by okey on Thursday 22 September 10:19
Most 360’s need the following
Camber and tracking adjustment
Gear linkage adjustment
Harder pads..
And miles
Most have 15k miles so most owners are not 100% comfortable with them.. they don’t get driven all the time (no offence) (2k miles per year, you don’t get to know the car…)
I have done over 60k miles in both an F1 and Manual.
Still never got to know the cars…
It is faster than all basic 911 full stop. (never bothered racing on road or track, it was not a contest)
It is as fast as a standard 911 turbo. (Raced several times)
Pound for pound you will need a 911 TT X50 get past a well driven 360. (raced several times, very very close)
GT2 errrrrrrr, there was no contest, I was beaten hands down on a track..
There is nothing between a 911 gt3 and a 360 on track or on road.
It will run with a Gallardo up to a point…
Got destroyed by a Muci, it was not even a contest… but we were on public roads so I did not throw the car into corners… truth is that I could have really troubled it, as it struggled through the roundabouts and sharper bends.. (driver or weight of the car… I don’t know)
Couple years back I was at Donnington and was being chased by a silver 964 RS, for 6 laps, in a standard car, with upgraded pads… his car was modded, but there nothing in it….
It’s a road car. !!!!!
In two cars and 60k miles, mine needed Camber and tracking adjustment, Gear linkage adjustment, two split hose replacements, new cam belt variators, and that’s all.
Yes it felt loose after the miles, but there is no comparism between a 911 c2 and a 360. Sorry.
Leave the F1 alone if you intend putting hard miles on the car.
400 BHP ?
you have to drive the car NEAR the rev limiter, as below 4k rpm it is just cruising, not many people do after 6 months of ownership, its just inviting big bills… (same for any high revving engine.. bike or likewise)
all the fun is at 8k rmp in all gears…
Do that and it flies, Its one of the best value cars out there… at £50k upwards…
I will not even bother going into the wow factor, the noise with a tubi, nor the reaction from the opposite sex.
You could not buy more FUN. !!!!!
>> Edited by okey on Thursday 22 September 10:16
>> Edited by okey on Thursday 22 September 10:19
Harris_I said:
okey said:
There is nothing between a 911 gt3 and a 360 on track or on road.
In my humble opinion, I would suggest that a GT3 out of the box is quicker than a 360 on track. In fact it would take a Challenge Stradale to stay with the P-car.
Sorry disagree. ! which GT3 variant are we talking about ?
GT3 Rs yes...GT3 Rsr yes.. standard GT3.. nope... have driven it on the road and on the track...
Nothing in it...
>> Edited by okey on Thursday 22 September 10:41
Well everyones entitled to their opinion, I don't buy it though as I was all over a 360 on straights in my Noble GT03. That article I linked further up the thread from motortrend didn't agree either.
These discussions are pointless though, as most peoples are very subjective and dictated by a desire to justify their purchasing decisions.
>> Edited by DanH on Thursday 22 September 11:18
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